849 replies to this topic

[Horseman]

Kurb, on 26 May 2020 - 02:53 AM, said:

In terms of resetting/changing the PSR system: Due to lack of experience, I do not have an opinion on whether it is a good or a bad thing. The change sounds quite drastic, so there are a few concerns I would like to raise:
* Since the player base is relatively small nowadays, does it really matter if the matchmaker is fully optimised, if it ends up having to pit top players against less experienced ones anyway in order to get a game going?
* Would the new system allow for experimentation with builds and playstyles or will players need to pick a mech that is 100% meta-optimised in every game in order to avoid dropping in rank?
* Might the new system overly punish good players by not getting them into games, and encourage them to intentionally cause their rank to drop, in order to be able to avoid excessive waiting?

Like I wrote, this isn't about separating players but about equalizing teams. If the performance metric used in the matchmaker is any good, both sides will be closer to each other and the matches won't be as lopsided as they tend to be now.

Nearly Dead, on 26 May 2020 - 04:29 AM, said:

Something still needs to be done about the few truly OP groups. Many 4 man groups, (as identified by their unit tags) mix right in and play with the team on a level compatible with the rest of the team. There are some however who come in and due to the combination of their skill level, organization, super aggressive play style, and matching/optimized mechs simply run over everyone. Groups of tier 1 players need to drop against similar teams. Even when things are slow dropping a T1 four man against a team of random solo players is too unbalanced. Is it better for a T1 four man to wait for a second team, or for 12 solo players to get stomped?

Ideally those groups would be balanced out by putting better solo players on the other side to compensate. But you need a viable player performance metric to do that.

Ebelon, on 26 May 2020 - 04:30 AM, said:

But assuming you be this arrogant and mean your post honest - did you consider, that the ones who behave like You are "top tier" because they are doing nothing for the team, but just for their stats?
Did you consider doing something for the team often means sacrificing yourself, resulting in struggling in getting "where you belong" ?

Except that would come out in his Win/Loss ratio. What his results tell me is quite the opposite: that he was carrying the hell out of most matches he's been in: https://leaderboard....arch?u=Erebus01

[KlLLJOY]

Resetting the tiers? After I've worked so hard?

https://media1.tenor...itemid=13519023

Honestly, that's fine. I just think we should all get a free cockpit item.

A cookie with one bite taken out of it for every tier below 1 that you are.

[Serial Number]

Reset plz so I can sit in T3 where I belong :>

[FearThePaladin]

I say get rid of the teir system and just drop folks. If you want equality in matches it will NEVER happen. Some players simply pull more people to them when the fight starts and some run away. When you are up three mechs... its almost always over why? Simply put more weapon systems on the opposing team. It always cascades. 12-0 is not so much about players but more about the fact that once it was 3-0 the opfor was able to maneuver fast enough to destroy the other 9 mechs without so much opposition. Sure if you have two or three bad players on a single team and they YOLO guess what its always a stompy. The only way you could prevent this is? Yea exactly... bad players and good players can swing matches very easily one way or the other. Making tiers sounds good but I promise you that trying to algorithm that is nonsense. Try putting me into a good or bad player and from 100 people you will hear 100 different experiences. Some say over rated others say OP... Me, I just like having fun and dropping the HG on people from up high. Anywise, I say abolish tiers and let her rip. See how that plays out. If you really want to play other folks at a high level.... well thats what faction play is for and about. Good luck and may you die by my HG!

[Nearly Dead]

I would not advocate PGI doing anything to discourage outside comms. I was just hoping that they could offer an alternative channel and lure people into using it so that when out of a match the groups would have the same quality of comms for chatting, organizing etc that they are used to and once the drop started the rest of the team would just be there with them in main chat seamlessly.

[RJF Volkodav]

Reset, pls. And repeat the reset every 3 months. Thats the only possibility for this "Tier" system to do at least some work it sopposed to do.

Edited by RJF Volkodav, 26 May 2020 - 05:28 AM.

[MeltedSnowgirl]

Here is my two cents:

I agree with the PSR reset

when determining advancement, please don't weigh the win/loss as heavily, especially since there's going to be organized teams. Make Damage/kills/performance weigh more heavily than WIn/Loss

So "Lance in position bonus" would add a tick
Damage done would add a tick
flanking

all those little things that give a bump to C-bills, can kick up the PSR rating, but a win/loss shouldn't be weighed as heavily.

That's all I have.

[Belorion]

I kind of like the way PSR works now. Why does it have to be a zero sum game?

[Jesslp]

Kurlon, on 26 May 2020 - 05:08 AM, said:

So, it appears years of the current malfunctioning 'tier' system have trained some of the population to think tiers are unlocks like classes of ships in World of Warships, an achievement that once garnered can never go away. Additionally they now "deserve" to play in top skill level matches. But PGI was already aware of this, which is why they didn't just say they're resetting things but instead asked what the community feels.

So, as noted before, the 'tier' system right now in combination with the matchmaker's doors being not just open but ripped clean off the hinges means you could literally just randomize people's PSR before each round of matchmaker action and not radically alter the overall gameplay at the moment. My updated proposal then is not only a PSR reset, but a UI change, get rid of Tier in the UI. Show the PSR/ELO number, or come up with a new name for the brackets, or just not show it at all, but don't continue to call it Tier. That allows the portion of the population who wishes for better balance in matches to see some light at the end of the tunnel, while also allowing those that think of Tier as an achievement bar to hold on to the memory of their old 'rank' without the UI trying to tell them otherwise after the change.

LoL. You are totally right here!

[Belorion]

MeltedSnowgirl, on 26 May 2020 - 05:27 AM, said:

all those little things that give a bump to C-bills, can kick up the PSR rating, but a win/loss shouldn't be weighed as heavily.

I agree, if you are going to make it zero sum, you can still do that without placing it all on the win loss. Base it on the performance for the individual. First people to get killed should get a lower PSR and the ones that do the most should go up.

[Hellfire666]

Paul Inouye, on 25 May 2020 - 03:41 PM, said:

There's still an elephant in the room. PSR calculations. Yes it's true that it biases upward movement. That bias comes from the formula currently saying that if you LOSE, you can still move up if you perform well. THIS is the aspect that breaks zero sum distribution.

That being said, we have a plan to make PSR zero sum... but, there's a big draw back. If we make this change, the PSR rankings for all players will need to be reset. That means if you're Tier 1, you'll be going back to Tier 4 for a bit. If you're Tier 5, you're also going back to Tier 4.

There is a multiplier for the first 20 games all players play that push your PSR changes higher or lower to speed the seeding process of the PSR player distribution. After those 20 matches, regular PSR zero sum values will be used.

We need your feedback on whether this is acceptable or not (losing current Tier standings).

You do realize that PSR goes UP you can do not move, do zero damage, and get killed as long as your team wins. ZERO contribution and your PSR goes up.

Don't you see the problem with that?!?!?!?!?!

PSR is nothing more than an XP bar. It's damn near impossible to go backwards any meaningful amount. There are a *LOT* of Tier 1 players (myself included) that do NOT belong in Tier 1.

Until you fix PSR, NO OTHER CHANGES WILL MATTER. They are all based on FLAWED DATA! If it requires a tier reset, no worries. That will help ensure people wind up in the Tiers they belong in.

Edited by Hellfire666, 26 May 2020 - 05:35 AM.

[jonomy]

great everyone is talking about this and thanks for a chance to chime in with insight, concern and questions. I am curious if resetting PSR will become a regular or periodic task going forward, or will this become a discussion again in a few months?

[Belorion]

You could even do something like the top 8 performers in the drop go up, the middle 8 stay the same, and the bottom 8 lower their PSR across the winning and losing teams.

[TygerLily]

I am for a reset of PSR for a zero-sum format (and I will likely move to another tier as a result). I think it would make more sense.

[N_o_v_A]

I'm fine with a reset

[Bud Crue]

Yes, by all means reset the Tiers.

That vote being cast, my two c-bills is that it is a meaningless gesture at this point. If the population is so low that the valves have to be open in the manner described in Paul's OP, then a reset is moot. Even if I am placed in T3 (which is where I think my stats suggest I should be) I'm still going to end up in matches with the same lot I play with regularly now during my normal hours of play.

Edited by Bud Crue, 26 May 2020 - 05:50 AM.

[letir]

I'm in for reset and advanced PSR.

Current PSR is completly pointless, it basicly time based. With big enough number of fights even bad players will eventually arrive at T1. There is no reason to keep it in the game.

[Rkshz]

Paul Inouye, on 25 May 2020 - 03:41 PM, said:

That being said, we have a plan to make PSR zero sum... but, there's a big draw back. If we make this change, the PSR rankings for all players will need to be reset. That means if you're Tier 1, you'll be going back to Tier 4 for a bit. If you're Tier 5, you're also going back to Tier 4.

There is a multiplier for the first 20 games all players play that push your PSR changes higher or lower to speed the seeding process of the PSR player distribution. After those 20 matches, regular PSR zero sum values will be used.

nice, I have been waiting for this for a long time
P.S. reset every month - that would be right

Edited by Rkshz, 26 May 2020 - 05:56 AM.

[FlynnTheAvatar]

I am also for a reset.

A Zero-Sum PSR sounds good, but you need to change the PSR calculation, too.

Because:
- High Damage does not mean you played well (LRM assaults way back)
- Dying early does not mean you played badly (you led the push that won the game).
- Winning a game does not mean that you personally played well
- Losing a game does not mean that you personally played bad
And yes, the opposite is true, too. What makes things a bit complicated.

[Belorion]

Belorion, on 26 May 2020 - 05:42 AM, said:

You could even do something like the top 8 performers in the drop go up, the middle 8 stay the same, and the bottom 8 lower their PSR across the winning and losing teams.

Heck you can even base it off straight Match Score. Top 8 scores go up the bottom 8 go down. That way W/L does factor in a little bit, but only in so much as your contribution.

W/L by itself is pretty meaningless for the individual PSR.