81 replies to this topic

[suffocater]

CFC Conky, on 03 July 2020 - 05:43 PM, said:

It depends on how your performance measured up compared with the rest of your team. The drop was probably very small.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Considering later on i stayed level with a MS over 220 on a win, I guess MS is now not a number to look at. Could as well not show it.
Since dmg farming is still a way to get quickly to T1, or, more important, get away from the pure potatoes, I might consider doing that and don't look at anything else.

[RCore]

suffocater, on 03 July 2020 - 06:27 PM, said:

Considering later on i stayed level with a MS over 220 on a win, I guess MS is now not a number to look at. Could as well not show it.
Since dmg farming is still a way to get quickly to T1, or, more important, get away from the pure potatoes, I might consider doing that and don't look at anything else.

It is MS based, but gaining or losing PSR is relative to the MS scores of all players in the match you just played. That was probably a match with players on both sides scoring high MS so 220 was somewhere in the middle.

Edited by RCore, 03 July 2020 - 09:48 PM.

[kapusta11]

suffocater, on 03 July 2020 - 04:11 PM, said:

Can someone explain to me why my PSR went down with 330MS on a loss and in the next game it went up with 184MS on a loss? Same map, same mode.

It's because new system is garbage. In game 1 most people had higher score than you pushing you down in in game match score ranking. In game 2 you had a bunch of losers on both sides so low score was enough to keep a high rank. If anything, in game 1 your PSR sould've increased because you did well in a game filled with good players which is harder to do. People warned PGI about this, but, as always, they didn't listen.

Edited by kapusta11, 04 July 2020 - 03:11 AM.

[ghost1e]

kapusta11, on 04 July 2020 - 03:09 AM, said:

It's because new system is garbage. In game 1 most people had higher score than you pushing you down in in game match score ranking. In game 2 you had a bunch of losers on both sides so low score was enough to keep a high rank. If anything, in game 1 your PSR sould've increased because you did well in a game filled with good players which is harder to do. People warned PGI about this, but, as always, they didn't listen.

actually no

this PSR systems let's you go up while you're better than the people you're playing with and go down while you're performing worse...

exactly what it should do, puts you into your skil-group

[kapusta11]

TheUltimateGhost, on 04 July 2020 - 03:55 AM, said:

actually no

this PSR systems let's you go up while you're better than the people you're playing with and go down while you're performing worse...

exactly what it should do, puts you into your skil-group

It lets you go up when you clearly don't deserve it like when the queue is filled with potatoes at the time you enter it and penalizes you when you perform well when it's filled with good players. It's biased towards player quality at the time you enter the queue. How can people defend this stupidity?

Edited by kapusta11, 04 July 2020 - 04:50 AM.

[MechWarrior5602072]

I got MS of ~600 in 1 game and I didn't have any weapons on me, just 4 ams and ammo for it... and was top MS in that game LOL

[Mister Smile]

Because u get tons of MS for shooting down missiles. Lots of AMS is an easy way to boost your MS...

[ghost1e]

kapusta11, on 04 July 2020 - 04:50 AM, said:

It lets you go up when you clearly don't deserve it like when the queue is filled with potatoes at the time you enter it and penalizes you when you perform well when it's filled with good players. It's biased towards player quality at the time you enter the queue. How can people defend this stupidity?

that is the current state as everyone has the same PSR

as it goes on, matches will start to be less randomly filled skillwise

[Tarl Cabot]

TheUltimateGhost, on 04 July 2020 - 03:55 AM, said:

actually no

this PSR systems let's you go up while you're better than the people you're playing with and go down while you're performing worse...

exactly what it should do, puts you into your skill-group

It puts the player in the skill group relative to the current drop, inferred but needed to be noted . And the MM still uses Tiers (PSR value) to initially seed the MM.

kapusta11, we had the option of using a static PSR bar but many were clamoring it should be zero-sum so through out the any status PSR bar. Even if PGI had kept the PSR bar, the other issue were players clamoring that if a player does well on a loss, they should go up and a player who does poorly in a win should go down.

To get a zero-sum, at least from my perceptive, it would likely need to rate players against everyone on the drop, either with or without W/L being a modifier. There are one or two threads arguing the merits or popularity of a few, sadly though one of the ones not chosen, the player may not have presented it well enough. Lots of technical stuff but it may have lacked spelling it out in layman terms while reacting to attacks on his instead of ignoring them and ironing out the display. Plus the one chosen

• Original PSR threshold/bar
  
  • Player LOSES:
    
  • Match Score: 0-100 goes down in PSR by -2
    
  • Match Score: 101-250 goes down in PSR by -1
    
  • Match Score: 251-400 does not move.
    
  • Match Score: 401+ goes up in PSR by +1
    
  • 
    
  • Player WINS:
    
  • Match Score: 0-100 does not move.
    
  • Match Score: 101-250 goes up in PSR by +1
    
  • Match Score: 251-400 goes up in PSR by +3
    
  • Match Score: 401+ goes up in PSR by +5

And a player's argument of how people should have moved up/down, regardless of win/loss (on original PSR settings). Anyhow, Paul said he would be keeping an eye on things (chuckles) Maybe I shouldnt, he has posted more than he has for a long time.

Other issue is that the PSR setting that was accepted had been posted on the 1st page of Paul's holding the patch, no update for 6-09-20. And if said player didnt get their proposal noted on that 1st page, it did not garner the type of votes it could have. How many players are going to read 30+ pages for any further proposals which do not appear on page one?

[Jimmy the Jim Jimmies]

I was a bit surprised to see that T5 players were bumped to T3. Dropping the top back down made sense, but putting the new players against them a whole lot less. Besides there's an inflation at the bottom anyhow (since one can not drop below 0).

I think it would have been better not to put new players in T3. Perhaps that could be kept in mind for the next reset?

[Tarl Cabot]

Jimmy the Jim Jimmies, on 04 July 2020 - 11:23 AM, said:

I was a bit surprised to see that T5 players were bumped to T3. Dropping the top back down made sense, but putting the new players against them a whole lot less. Besides there's an inflation at the bottom anyhow (since one can not drop below 0).

I think it would have been better not to put new players in T3. Perhaps that could be kept in mind for the next reset?

Agree because PGI is not using a System Zero-sum system, it is a per drop zero-sum. If anything then at least Tier 4 if not Tier 5.

[RangerS09]

As a six year vet of this game, this is my first time making a comment on game play.
Look, if you are still listening, this new PSR might be a step in the right direction, but it is flawed in it's first implementation. So far, what I can see that is wrong is the stats that are taken into consideration for game score and then applied to your ranking. This new PSR matrix is penalizing good team play and rewarding point hogs. This is NOT the way to convince players to work together.
Let me give you an example of one scenario, let's say you are a fighter that works to be the fodder for the team, and in doing so you draw fire away from your team and make a distraction to the enemy so that your team can then attack with more precision; in this case, I may not have a high enemy damage rating because I'm working to stay alive long enough to see the team succeed.
Your PSR changes basically are leaving me in the dust and even if my team wins, I loose and fall back in my pilot skill rating.
If this continues, you will loose me as a mech warrior pilot which I will deeply regret because I really do enjoy playing and using a variety of tactics. I love talking and communicating with my fellow warriors. When you force me to give up a crucial game play tactic to helping provide a team win, then this becomes a limited imagination game in which you are only rewarded for just providing the most damage to the enemy
In one scenario, I took a lot of damage, offering my armor for the team, I was successful at multiple artillery's strikes, I made one kill, but my out going enemy damage rate was only 200. In this scenario, I lost pilot skill level. This should not happen. Please reevaluate and provide more reward for players that play for the team and not just themselves. I'm seeing a higher volume of blow away matches now, not less as what I think everyone was wishing for.
Thank you for listening.

LCR3000

[Z Paradox]

TheUltimateGhost, on 04 July 2020 - 03:55 AM, said:

actually no

this PSR systems let's you go up while you're better than the people you're playing with and go down while you're performing worse...

exactly what it should do, puts you into your skil-group

it is still too easy to get to T1...

[Tarl Cabot]

Z Paradox, on 04 July 2020 - 02:27 PM, said:

it is still too easy to get to T1...

Of course it is, even though PGI change the top PSR value from 3750 to 5000. Original PSR had a max 5pt value if MS exceeded 401 for a win/high MS post-Cadet bonus (Had the actual Cadet bonus percentage been posted?) Now, dependent on MS spread it can be 17 to 24pts for top scorer on the winning team, and many are currently getting there by playing as a group, multiplying the chance of a win and high MS while brining appropriate setups.

[Hiten Bongz]

The tonnage disparity in matches is just completely ridiculous.

5+ assaults with a smattering of other weight classes on one team, vs. 6 lights, a handful of mediums and a couple heavies on another (with zero assaults). This kind of junk match is now commonplace, and the stomps have increased because of it.

WTF is this? Why is tonnage not being taken into account whatsoever? Who's bright idea was it to allow one team to have 2x the tonnage of the other? And how do you expect people to end up in the appropriate tier when matches are so unbalanced all the time?

Also, why is it so hard to ensure that premade groups don't all end up on the same team?

Edited by Hiten Bongz, 05 July 2020 - 06:27 PM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Yes, I think since PSR is (almost) equal for everyone right now, the MM should should enforce tonnage balance over PSR balance for now. Right now, this is vice versa and it doesn't do anything good.

[NoTrueScotsman]

TheUltimateGhost, on 04 July 2020 - 03:55 AM, said:

actually no

this PSR systems let's you go up while you're better than the people you're playing with and go down while you're performing worse...

exactly what it should do, puts you into your skil-group

...this new system being fair and balanced is a fantasy and not rooted in reality. the idea that you will "settle where you belong" is an elitist view of what a "True T1" is supposed to be. When you can be a consistently performing player, and as an example, secure 4 kills, not take any damage, have a team win & end up going DOWN in rating because of not doing enough damage is ridiculous. Then being able to tank a boi for 600+ damage and get one solo kill, 2 assists, die & have a team loss and got UP in PSR is just as bad. One of the selling points of the new system was to foster teamwork. With pilots now farming damage more than ever in order to skill up, I see the very opposite of teamwork out on the battlefield.

[Xaat Xuun]

F0rg3, on 07 July 2020 - 11:40 AM, said:

...this new system being fair and balanced is a fantasy and not rooted in reality. the idea that you will "settle where you belong" is an elitist view of what a "True T1" is supposed to be. When you can be a consistently performing player, and as an example, secure 4 kills, not take any damage, have a team win & end up going DOWN in rating because of not doing enough damage is ridiculous. Then being able to tank a boi for 600+ damage and get one solo kill, 2 assists, die & have a team loss and got UP in PSR is just as bad. One of the selling points of the new system was to foster teamwork. With pilots now farming damage more than ever in order to skill up, I see the very opposite of teamwork out on the battlefield.

TLDR: yes agree, farming damage is the game play, pretty much always has been

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


sounds like one only fought four lights, or just did 4 kill steals.
even under the old system, same score results would happen. I didn't care for the poor score from doing cap objectives.
not sure what the multiplier is for damage, but it being the major and largest multiplier is just who ever has the best aim, gets the higher MS.
Now I know I'm not the only one with shaky hands and aiming is not my strongest attribute, so damage on my part is not that great, I know I do my part to help secure a win, and sometimes that means doing the capping objectives, but what's the point doing capping objectives, if I'm just going to move down in the PSR,
Now I do know when I do move down, I just look better, and then move up, just to look bad, just because my aim is bad, because I'm unable to hit what I'm aiming at, I'm not a bad pilot, just a bad shot due to physical limits
I'll live with that fact, and that's that. If only my misses were hits, and my hits were misses, I'd probably get higher damage score, yeah I'm that shaky.

[spannerturner]

Xaat Xuun, on 07 July 2020 - 12:35 PM, said:

I'm not a bad pilot, just a bad shot due to physical limits
I'll live with that fact, and that's that. If only my misses were hits, and my hits were misses, I'd probably get higher damage score, yeah I'm that shaky.

You are not alone in this. It is one of the reasons I tend to use LB-10Xs for Ballistic weapons. It gives a little more leeway to aiming issues (guided missiles too). The important thing is to settle out in a Tier that allows MM to put you up against players that are more on par with what your skill and abilities match up with. This is where you will start finding yourself playing in matches that, hopefully, will result in closer match results (like 12-9 or closer). For me, these are the matches I will stick around and "observe" until the end if I am killed off earlier than the end.

Tier ranking should not be viewed as a reward. It should be viewed as a placeholder that best aligns you for matches against people that are of the same capabilities as you. Would you want to play softball against a bunch of MLB players where you got schooled regularly? Or be relegated to the Beer Leagues where you could actually enjoy the game? Maybe even be the hero of the game once in awhile...

I will be happy to give up what was a Tier 1 status for placement in a Tier that ensures I will see better, closer matches. The occasional game where it feels like I am the one everything is riding on is a thrill. Playing against a bunch of people that treat me like a cat and its toy is not an enjoyable experience. It is just going to take some time for the system to work. Be patient.

[Z Paradox]

Lockheed_, on 08 July 2020 - 05:22 AM, said:

So got a question to the players who are more involved with the PSR system and have a little more insight on how this might turn out:
How long will it take approximately for the game to return to "normal" where everyone is in the tier they belong?
I just dont enjoy the game currently and I want to come back once climbing to Tier 1 or 2 provides enough separation, so I do not play with or against a team that is just overwhelmed and scattered all over the map.

all active players needs 250-350 games to get in their tier so ~100 days... to get there (my guess)...