144 replies to this topic

[Red Potato Standing By]

if the majority of players have a hard time averaging 200 ms maybe it is not as easy for them as it is for you. it is possible. i do not find this game easy personally(though i admit games where it requires some kind of hand eye coordination i am not good at what so ever)

[Big-G]

Ridir Semii, on 05 July 2020 - 07:25 AM, said:

You posted this in every topic about psr changes, we get it, you cannot carry a team and want more presents in your stocking this year..... jeebus people are entitled these days...… A new PSR/ MM system takes a while to filter people into their proper locations... you need to have patience through July at least to see viable results from the changes....

It's called making a point...

[Xaat Xuun]

Big-G, on 05 July 2020 - 04:46 AM, said:

I just feel the new setup is punishing players who try their best but aren't able to carry weak/disorganized/lazy teams.

the new scoring system, will not punish well preformed players on a losing team,

Also I don't think the kickers are all kicking in either. It does seem to (as some others mentioned) be mainly based on Damage, cap'ers are getting the shaft. They're not getting credit for helping to secure a win.

your score is based on you and 23 other players performance, A player may been highest score in their losing team, but may still be lower then winning, just makes you best of the team, not the match, might earn you a small gain or the no movement

your PSR can even go down on a winning team, if you performed badly, A win does not guarantee a upward movement

this new system is going to take a while to level out the playing field, We'll just need to grit our teeth during the process, till that that has happened

[Big-G]

Not punish? Being relegated to a non movement (=) is as good as saying... you did your best, but the loss "which you are not responsible for" makes it worthless...

[Cluster Fox]

PSR is information about you going to the MM. If you think it's personnal, you're missing the point.

[Tahawus]

PSR doesn't need to be zero sum if you relax the restrictions on how a tier is defined. I've noted this several times in the past, though not much lately, and didn't contribute to the new PSR mechanic.

If your tier is defined by which quintile of the PSR distribution you fall into (or any other method for classifying the distribution, standard deviations, equal interval, natural breaks), then it just doesn't matter. If your PSR is in places you into the top 20% of players when ordered by PSR, then you're tier 1. 21-40%, tier two, etc. There are a couple minor assumptions that must be made to operationalize the mechanics (i.e. PSRs from the past month's worth of players are used to define breakpoints, new players are assigned an initial PSR at the midpoint of tier 4...).

Of course, you will have folks complaining that "I was Tier 1 when I logged off, now I'm Tier 2..", but as long as the methods are transparent, I suspect it'll be better for the game as well as giving a better measure of where you actually stand in relation to others.

None of this is to say that it isn't a good idea to have a PSR that will assume some form of predictable statistical distribution, but if the tier system drops the requirement of a fixed break point, the issues are reduced. Heck, the MM might even be able to do better. Building matches based on individual PSR rather than a second order construct like tier.

[crazytimes]

I had a thought. I'm making slow but steady progress upwards. There is a 3 tier spread on MM. Me moving to tier 2 is not going to change that I will still drop against the same people in the 3 tier spread.

Unless I full potato- what stops me from just ending up tier 1 again like the old system? Anyone with upwards progress in tier 3 should just keep grinding away through 2 unless they drop the mm tier spread to 1 tier only.

[selfish shellfish]

Well if the old bracket system is still in place Tier 3 is the anything goes Tier. Meaning you can get matches with Tier 3-1 players or Tier 4-2 or Tier 5-3.

When you hit Tier 2 you are getting matched against Tiers 3-1 and Tiers 4-2.

And finally at Tier 1 you are getting matched against Tiers 3-1 only.

However with low population the release valves will kick in and it is possible to get crazy matches.


In theory the new PSR calculation should stabilize you at a certain Tier. It seemed to be pushing me towards Tier 4 but now it is going towards Tier 2. So either it is stabilizing me at Tier 3 or I will be juggling between Tier 3 and 2. It's too early to tell.


Still I wonder where the new players are placed now? Hopefully the reset to Tier 3 was only temporary and new players are still starting at Tier 4 or 5...

[Aidan Crenshaw]

so far, it seems that new accounts start at T3 as well. Which is a huge mistake I think.

[Big-G]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 06 July 2020 - 03:53 AM, said:

so far, it seems that new accounts start at T3 as well. Which is a huge mistake I think.

Indeed, that's why most games feel like getting chucked in with the green horns who I need to rely on to work with me, but then they nastard into oblivion and you suddenly find yourself open to a quick flank...

[Aidan Crenshaw]

You could always try to pick up your mic and convince the greenhorns to follow your call.

[Big-G]

Done that, they don't listen...

[crazytimes]

selfish shellfish, on 06 July 2020 - 03:50 AM, said:

Well if the old bracket system is still in place Tier 3 is the anything goes Tier. Meaning you can get matches with Tier 3-1 players or Tier 4-2 or Tier 5-3.

When you hit Tier 2 you are getting matched against Tiers 3-1 and Tiers 4-2.

And finally at Tier 1 you are getting matched against Tiers 3-1

There are a lot more tier 1 and 2 then 4 so far- so the people I am playing now are the same people I will see at tier 2. L

Quote

Still I wonder where the new players are placed now? Hopefully the reset to Tier 3 was only temporary and new players are still starting at Tier 4 or 5...

They start in 3- and need to lose 500 psr to drop. That will take a minimum of 20 terrible matches. If they do the academy and listen to comms, they may never actlually drop out of 3. There will always be an influx of cadets for people in tier 2 continue to progress against.

[General Solo]

Big-G, on 06 July 2020 - 05:23 AM, said:

Done that, they don't listen...

Well if they don't listen you have permission to put those team mates between you and the enemy.
That way their armor helps you carry better
They don't have to like it, FTW!

[Cluster Fox]

selfish shellfish, on 06 July 2020 - 03:50 AM, said:

In theory the new PSR calculation should stabilize you at a certain Tier.

What is that theory based on? MM has to mix some level of PSR into games because of low POP. Meaning you never quite play against people of your own PSR. There's no force to stabilize it, just hope.

Edited by Cluster Fox, 07 July 2020 - 03:19 PM.

[martian]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 06 July 2020 - 05:14 AM, said:

You could always try to pick up your mic and convince the greenhorns to follow your call.

It is like herding cats.

Edited by martian, 07 July 2020 - 10:21 PM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

It is but if you don't, you haven't done everything you can to ensure your team wins.

[General Solo]

For when Comms dont work

OZHomerOZ, on 06 July 2020 - 04:14 PM, said:

Well if they don't listen you have permission to put those team mates between you and the enemy.
That way their armor helps you carry better
They don't have to like it, FTW!

An remember comms dont kill enemies
Weapons and aiming kill enemies, lock ons included abit less due to the aim part but still included.
Use an uncooperative team to your advantage to the MAX FTW.

Yo could over extend and die early

Or you could be the last many alive instead of some lrm boat
And clutch that game noice

Who has a better chance of doing that you
Or some lerm boat that jumps on a chair at the first sign of light mechs

According to Clutch Dixion its your duty not to let some lermer die before AFTER you!
For the reasons stated above
At 50% armour or less find your lerm buddy meatshield

Its their time to pay up for using your armour and locks

Edited before for after

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 08 July 2020 - 10:11 PM.

[Big-G]

OZHomerOZ, on 07 July 2020 - 11:53 PM, said:

According to Clutch Dixion its your duty not to let some lermer die after you.
For the reasons stated above
At 50% armour or less find your lerm buddy meatshield

Its their time to pay up for using your armour and locks

Fixed that for ya...

Edited by Big-G, 08 July 2020 - 03:12 AM.

[Gagis]

Cluster Fox, on 02 July 2020 - 02:23 PM, said:

https://mwomercs.com...stabilizing-it/ Challenge 2 highlights the solution.

So far, I've seen no pushback or counter-argument to that formula and analysis. Well, good I guess, but it seems to be it's own doom. It'll get swept under the rug since people don't reply aggressively on it... ironic isn't it?

Seems like it IS a popularity contest, and I failed to generate controversy...

That was actually a very good point. I've liked Cluster Foxes thorough analyses but have nothing to add or nothing that'd drive me to provide strong feedback, so it gets drowned under all the forum warrioring with people spamming forum posts as if they were chat messages. His posts are too good for their own good.

That tendency is why most people who play MWO never come anywhere close to the forums. These are a bad medium.