12 replies to this topic

[Kurlon]

First, some background: When PGI has taken moderation action resulting in a permanent ban, they include a note that: "This issue is now considered to be closed. No responses should be expected from any replies or appeals to this ban notice." Any discussion of moderation actions is also forbidden and can trigger further responses from the moderation team. Prior to this event, I am not aware of any prior permanent ban having ever been lifted via appeal, if I'm wrong I'd love to be corrected on this.

The one time PGI did speak openly about moderation actions was the original 'ban wave' in 2015. See this news post if you're not familiar with it. In summary, 64 accounts were spotted using third party tools deemed inappropriate by PGI, they were named and banned. Interestingly, this post at the end of another thread implies that the bans in that wave were strictly account bans, not hardware or IP based, and that alts would be OK... As this thread was partially redacted it's not possible for me to 100% confirm the post was referring to the first ban wave or not. Normally the ban notifications specifically say ban evasion by alt creation will result in additional bans so that was interesting.

This was the world established and enforced by PGI, bans would not be discussed publicly, nor would there be any appeals, permanent meant permanent. When claims of 'rampant hacking' pop up in MWO, near constantly this ban wave and PGI's other communications on the topic, along with the no return policy are some of the bullet points raised as a counter argument to everyone being a filthy cheater. We also know of some high profile idiots that have pushed the bar and gotten more than just account bans, but IP or HW bans as well, another tool in the bag of anti-cheat moderation tricks PGI has access to.

Well, it seems things have changed in 2020. [Redacted]

PGI let us know when cheaters were punted, I think it only fair the community get a heads up when they allow one of them back.

Edited by GM Patience, 02 July 2020 - 02:10 PM.
name and shame

[Nightbird]

Thanks for sharing

[LordNothing]

game needs players, but if you are going to let them in watch them like a hawk to make sure they aren't using cheat software.

[Brauer]

LordNothing, on 02 July 2020 - 08:39 AM, said:

game needs players, but if you are going to let them in watch them like a hawk to make sure they aren't using cheat software.

The fact that the game needs players is exactly why bad actors who were proven to be cheaters should be banned, and why ban processes shouldn't be arbitrarily changed.

I don't know if Kurlon is right that this twitter account is associated with that MWO account, and I don't know if the person behind the tweets is indeed a bad actor, but allowing people back who have been banned for cheating is bad for the game.

It'd be good to see some official communication from PGI about why this ban was reversed and how this impacts their policy going forward.

Edited by Brauer, 02 July 2020 - 09:42 AM.

[OneTeamPlayer]

I'd also be interested in a policy clarification on this decision.

I'm sure there are quite a few people who would also be interested in an unbanned account, and as this was handled publicly (via twitter) I hope this thread continues to be visible and is graced with a staff response at some point.

People often speculate when one users is given a benefit that has been denied to dozens of others and is contrary to policy, the developers putting out an official word on this particular exception (or is it a set of exceptions for all who meet the same parameters, as would be fair?) would go a long way.

[Brauer]

OneTeamPlayer, on 02 July 2020 - 09:08 AM, said:

I'd also be interested in a policy clarification on this decision.

I'm sure there are quite a few people who would also be interested in an unbanned account, and as this was handled publicly (via twitter) I hope this thread continues to be visible and is graced with a staff response at some point.

People often speculate when one users is given a benefit that has been denied to dozens of others and is contrary to policy, the developers putting out an official word on this particular exception (or is it a set of exceptions for all who meet the same parameters, as would be fair?) would go a long way.

Yep, arbitrary favoritism is also bad for the game. Either way I think the community deserves a response.

[LordNothing]

Brauer, on 02 July 2020 - 08:57 AM, said:

The fact that the game needs players is exactly why bad actors who were proven to be cheaters should be banned, and why ban processes shouldn't be arbitrarily changed.

I don't know if Kurlon is right that this twitter account is associated with that MWO account, and I don't know if the person behind the tweets is indeed a bad actor, but allowing people back who have been banned for cheating is bad for the game.

It'd be good to see some official communication from PGI about why this ban was reversed and how this impacts their policy going forward.

official communication and openness is good for game communities. usually when there is a dont talk about it policy, its usually because they have something to hide.

i have no problem if former cheaters come back provided they dont cheat. and they already done lost their stuff, so pound of flesh extracted.

Edited by LordNothing, 02 July 2020 - 10:18 AM.

[VonBruinwald]

In before the lock!

[Brauer]

LordNothing, on 02 July 2020 - 10:16 AM, said:

official communication and openness is good for game communities. usually when there is a dont talk about it policy, its usually because they have something to hide.

i have no problem if former cheaters come back provided they dont cheat. and they already done lost their stuff, so pound of flesh extracted.

You're more forgiving of cheating than I am. In my opinion the penalties for cheating should be high and should include truly permanent bans. Calling something a permanent ban and then reversing it just undermines the whole moderation team and process. The integrity of those systems, and insulating them from favoritism or personal whims is important.

[Davegt27]

if I am not mistaken we played a CW match with this chick and when we lost she rips into us pugs

saying how much we sucked

I laughed my *** off when I saw her name on the big ban wave

[Bud Crue]

Brauer, on 02 July 2020 - 11:53 AM, said:

You're more forgiving of cheating than I am. In my opinion the penalties for cheating should be high and should include truly permanent bans. Calling something a permanent ban and then reversing it just undermines the whole moderation team and process. The integrity of those systems, and insulating them from favoritism or personal whims is important.

I agree with the above, but I wonder if maybe Russ's view of cheating and the punishments resulting therefrom have become colored by his love of hockey and how that game deals with cheaters. That is to say, in professional hockey no one has ever been banned for cheating. Assault (which I suppose ought to be considered cheating) will get you a ban of so many games, but only one person has ever received a lifetime ban. Meh. It's Russ's game he gets to make the rules. Also, in before the lock.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

New players, experienced players, groups, etc. All thrown together in one big bucket in the new and improved SQ......who is still missing??? Oh yeah....the cheaters who got banned.....sure, let’s add them back too, I am sure this will all work out great.

(Sarcasm!)

[GM Patience]

I would like to clarify on the issue brought by the OP. We have decided that anyone with an IP ban over a year old may apply for that IP ban to be lifted. We will be accepting the appeals for the rest of the month, the cut of date being July 31st, 2020.

Please note, we will not be lifting bans from permanently suspended accounts but we do want to give a chance for previously suspended players to start a new account and play by the rules. Appeals will be evaluated on a case by case basis.

All of the new accounts will be monitored and escalated moderation actions will be taken against accounts engaging in ANY violations of Code of Conduct.

The appeals will be handled directly between applicant and CSR, please contact moderation@mwomercs.com

Any threads concerning this matter will be removed as per our Name and Shame policies.