89 replies to this topic

[DylanCheetah]

If I want to stick with missiles, would I be better off with a medium mech like Shadow Cat or Vapor Eagle? Or are missiles better used on a heavy or assault mech?

I'll try doing better with lasers and heat management. And looking for opportunities to get beside/behind the enemy.

I just managed to do 98 damage in a single match with 6 med lasers, 2 clan heat sinks, and ECM. I equipped the ECM nodes too. And snuck up on the enemy a few times.

Edited by DylanCheetah, 08 July 2020 - 12:07 PM.

[Horseman]

DylanCheetah, on 08 July 2020 - 11:24 AM, said:

If I want to stick with missiles, would I be better off with a medium mech like Shadow Cat or Vapor Eagle? Or are missiles better used on a heavy or assault mech?

There are Clan light mechs such as Adder or Kit Fox (-D specifically due to its' set of 8 bonuses) that can do missiles decently.
The Arctic Cheetah just isn't one of them, on account of having only eight tons for payload at full armor (Adder does 16, Kit Fox 14.5, Cougar 18, Jenner IIC potentially even more depending on what size engine you install).
Shadow Cat is much in the same position as the Arctic Cheetah - oversized engine and less tonnage for payload than other chassis in the same category and comparable tonnage.

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I just managed to do 98 damage in a single match with 6 med lasers, 2 clan heat sinks, and ECM. I equipped the ECM nodes too. And snuck up on the enemy a few times.

If you're using ERMLs, you don't need to close in - stay further out, poke and reposition so that you're hitting enemies who are too occupied with the rest of your team to pay attention to you.

Although to be honest I wouldn't do ERMLs on an ACH, just not enough cooling (been there, tried that)

[CFC Conky]

Hey Dylan,

Conventional wisdom in MWO has it that with a few exceptions, LRMS on assault mechs are not recommended, at least in Quickplay.

For medium mechs, the Hunchback series can do some good work with LRMS, there are also other mediums like the Trebuchet that can be effective. On the heavy side you can try the Catapult (IS) or Mad Dog (Clan). The SunSpider (Clan) can also work. For IS mechs, look for ones that have missile quirks.

Some other things to consider:

When using LRMS it's better if you get your own locks so bring a Tag laser if you have a spare energy hardpoint. Your teammates can spot for you but you shouldn't depend on that.

If you can, bring some backup weapons in case you get pushed.

If you can, don't just stand in the back and lob your missiles. Stay mobile and close to the rest of your team. The closer you are the flatter the trajectory of the missiles and the less time the enemy has to react.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[DylanCheetah]

I actually tried 8 lasers (a few medium, some small, and some micro) on Arctic Cheetah once, and man did it overheat quickly. XD
I did better with 2 large lasers. In fact, I have a video of one of those matches with large lasers:

That was a while ago though.

For some reason, my unorthodox strategy of having LRM on an Arctic Cheetah is working for me. I just got 198 damage in a single match. Equipping most of the sensor nodes, unequipping some of the survival nodes, and putting all the armor on the front has helped though. And having no head armor and more leg armor is working better too.

The Jenner IIC looks interesting tbh. Looks like it could carry more weapons and ammo.

Also, thanks for all your help everyone.

p.s. What would you recommend for a Vapor Eagle strategy?

Edited by DylanCheetah, 08 July 2020 - 07:03 PM.

[AnAnachronismAlive]

Hey Dylan. Please don't try to be an (unorthodox) snowflake in MWO, they usually tend to get molten very quickly. You are free to try whatever strategy, mech or setup pleases you ... a lot of us - if not most - did in our early days and that is why we want to spare ye this experience.

In an abstract way MWO is a ressource management game ... the team using their ressources (armor, damage output potential, etc.) better generally wins 90 percent of the games. So doing a 198 points of damage is okay, but ye gotta realize that even your ACH has a max armor value of 210 ... so what you did in that game with high likelyhood was stripping off armor value worth an ACH of multiple targets. That can be more than enough / make a difference IF the damage applied is focussed damage (on open parts, or important components that gimp an enemy mech) but LRMs usually DON't do that.

So while I don't wanna steal the cake out of yer pan, I gotta state: the sooner ye realize how this team based game really works, the sooner ye gonna become a very decent player. Don't get me wrong: ye will get better anyway by playing, so all fine with yer unorthodox approach ... but with some central basics incorporated, ye progress will be much faster and smoother.

Anyhow: have lots of fun (most important part) and bring friends (another important part). Rest will righten itself over time.

Edited by AnAnachronismAlive, 08 July 2020 - 09:32 PM.

[DylanCheetah]

tbh a friend of mine introduced me to this game. XD
And we usually play in a group of 3.

I just bought a Vapor Eagle today and I feel like I'm doing slightly better with the lasers and I'm learning to use the machine guns too.

I do have a new question. When should I spend GSP vs. buying SP?

[AnAnachronismAlive]

Unsure if I get yer question right (since english aint my mother tongue), but usually I hoard general experience points (not limited onto a certain mech) for recently bought mechs and buy (my) standard 6 points in the auxiliary tree with em before I jump into the first match. If the variant I am using has ECM, I tend to use general skill points to activate the ECM-nodes. All other skillpoints are grind-mode via mech-exp.

But that is just my personal approach.

[DylanCheetah]

To clarify, I meant general skill points (GSP). I have like 30 of them, but I don't know when I should use them. When I go to unlock new skill nodes, it asks if I want to spend GSP or purchase SP.

Edited by DylanCheetah, 08 July 2020 - 10:02 PM.

[AnAnachronismAlive]

Okay, I'd keep the general skill points (these are NOT bound to any mech) for new/recently bought mechs then. Use the general skill points to activate the most basic nodes (for me that is always the auxiliary tree to equip two strikes etc.). All further nodes I'd buy SP for via Mech-Experience (these are bound to the mech you achieved the experience points with).

Edited by AnAnachronismAlive, 08 July 2020 - 10:13 PM.

[Horseman]

Here's a build reference for you Dylan: https://grimmechs.isengrim.org/

DylanCheetah, on 08 July 2020 - 09:30 PM, said:

I just bought a Vapor Eagle today and I feel like I'm doing slightly better with the lasers and I'm learning to use the machine guns too.

Most veagles are built with erppcs for sniping, except the VGL-A. That one does very well as a brawler, packing firepower rougly on par with an Orion IIC-A or an Atlas-S on a medium mech - but thanks to generous payload space and hardpoints, it can also double as a missile boat (which in fact may not be a bad way to grind EXP to skill it out)

[Roland09]

I realize you originally asked for mech build advice, and you may or may not have seen the following hint elsewhere on the forum; I would still advise you to turn down your mouse sensitivity, if you haven't done so already. Generally, this helps immensely with keeping laser beams on target.

[DylanCheetah]

Roland09, on 09 July 2020 - 05:37 AM, said:

I realize you originally asked for mech build advice, and you may or may not have seen the following hint elsewhere on the forum; I would still advise you to turn down your mouse sensitivity, if you haven't done so already. Generally, this helps immensely with keeping laser beams on target.

Thanks for the advice. I was considering doing that, but I haven't tried it yet. My Vapor Eagle came with pulse lasers though. What are the pros/cons of normal vs. pulse lasers? I see that the pulse lasers have slightly higher power, less range, and more weight. I heard that they take less time to do full damage though.

I feel like I'm doing better with my new mech. I did about 68 damage in a single match yesterday, and all I used was lasers and machine guns. I think there is much opportunity gained since this mech can look practically behind itself.

Edited by DylanCheetah, 09 July 2020 - 08:56 AM.

[CFC Conky]

DylanCheetah, on 09 July 2020 - 08:49 AM, said:

Thanks for the advice. I was considering doing that, but I haven't tried it yet. My Vapor Eagle came with pulse lasers though. What are the pros/cons of normal vs. pulse lasers? I see that the pulse lasers have slightly higher power, less range, and more weight. I heard that they take less time to do full damage though.

I feel like I'm doing better with my new mech. I did about 68 damage in a single match yesterday, and all I used was lasers and machine guns. I think there is much opportunity gained since this mech can look practically behind itself.

Pulse laser put out their damage more quickly, making them more of a pinpoint weapon at the cost of more weight and heat, and lower range than regular lasers. Clan pulse lasers have more range than their IS counterparts and the Clan LPL weighs less. They are hotter and have a longer cool down time.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[DylanCheetah]

I'll probably try regular lasers once I've saved up more c-bills. For now, I'll keep practicing with what it came with. But I am improving the sensor skill tree.

I just managed to do almost 90 damage in a single match with just lasers and machine guns. I'm hiding and retreating behind stuff better now too. And reducing my mouse sensitivity has improved my aim.

Any suggestions about which skill tree nodes I should focus on for Vapor Eagle? I've almost equipped all the sensor ones that are useful to me. Excluding the ECM and seismic ones since I don't have ECM available and I rarely stand still.

Edited by DylanCheetah, 09 July 2020 - 12:21 PM.

[Horseman]

Which veagle and what is your exact build?

[DylanCheetah]

VGL-1 factory defaults for now. I did tweak the armor so that there is 0 on the head more on the legs and all of it is on the front. I've only been defeated by heat shot once since I started. I guess that's pretty good.

Also, is the Artemis guidance system worth it? And what causes a low signal state?

Edited by DylanCheetah, 09 July 2020 - 01:18 PM.

[Horseman]

DylanCheetah, on 09 July 2020 - 12:43 PM, said:

VGL-1

https://grimmechs.is...echname&s=vgl-1

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0 on the head

Don't do that.
First, the cockpit hitbox is pretty large on the VGL ( https://mwomercs.com...localization-2/ ).
Second, lack of armor WILL show up on the enemy's targeting display.

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Also, is the Artemis guidance system worth it?

Depends on your weapons and the range you are using them at.

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And what causes a low signal state?

Proximity to enemy ECM or being under jammer effect in an Incursion match.

[DylanCheetah]

If I use missiles, I tend to use LRM from the longest distance possible. Also, what's your advice about PPCs and Gauss Rifles? I used a trial mech with Gauss Rifles once and I figured out that they have to be... charged I guess? And I've seen people use PPC, but I've never used one.

[Horseman]

DylanCheetah, on 09 July 2020 - 02:14 PM, said:

If I use missiles, I tend to use LRM from the longest distance possible.

It's actually the worst way to use LRMs. The further away you are , the more likely they are to impact terrain instead of your target and the worse their spread becomes. Use them at 400-600m ranges and try to get LOS to your own targets.

[AnAnachronismAlive]

DylanCheetah, on 09 July 2020 - 02:14 PM, said:

If I use missiles, I tend to use LRM from the longest distance possible. Also, what's your advice about PPCs and Gauss Rifles? I used a trial mech with Gauss Rifles once and I figured out that they have to be... charged I guess? And I've seen people use PPC, but I've never used one.

Short and simple: while standing in the backline without direct line of sight and no damage incoming while firing wave after wave of lurms may feel somewhat smart, it usually gets you killed in two ways:

• Very fast, once one or more enemy lights swarm you - with at least one havin' ECM for sure!
  
• Very late, once the enemy team has eaten all yer team-mates and comes for the dessert (that is you)!

If you feel like lurming, stay with the team, get your own missile locks and try to stay within the range Horseman implied. If you got the ammo, it ain't no fuss to throw some lrm-volleys onto targets not in your direct line of sight, but NEVER-EVER incorporate the bad habit a lot of people show in their early days making em stand in the backline all day pumping missile after missile into the digital nirvana.

Just keep in mind: the shorter the way a missile has to go, the less your potential damage-output can be mitigated (in terms of cover, ams, loss of lock-on) ... AND ... you share your armor!

Until then just keep singing (tribute to R.E.M):
When your match ain't long, and being stomped,
being stomped is yours alone.
When you're sure you did enough,
for this game, well hang on.
Don't let yourself go, cause everybody LURMS,
and every teammate cries sometimes!

Sometimes everyone plays wrong,
now it's your time to carry on.
When you're being stomped alone (lurm on),
(lurm on) if you feel like throwing on (lurm on).
But if you think you've lurmed too much,
in this game, yeah, well done!

Edited by AnAnachronismAlive, 09 July 2020 - 11:30 PM.