89 replies to this topic

[DylanCheetah]

tbh I've been relying more on my 2 large lasers and 4 machine guns since I started using the Vapor Eagle. I'm considering switching to a Gauss Rifle and PPC though. I've only been using missiles when the enemy appears to be busy with my allies and I pay close attention to if they are actually hitting the enemy or the terrain.

Do any of you have advice about how to play on Rubellite Oasis more effectively? I feel like I do pretty bad there most of the time.

Edited by DylanCheetah, 10 July 2020 - 10:49 AM.

[Roland09]

Gauss rifles have a charging mechanic: You need to keep pressing the firing button (for half a second, IIR) until the weapon is ready to fire. When you release the firing button, the weapon will fire... unless you keep the button pressed for too long, which will cause the weapon to drop the charge again. You will then have to release the button, press and hold again until you release. This is definitely something you might want to try in the training grounds first.

PPCs have no such mechanic. You press the button, the weapon will fire and then proceed to cooldown, after which the weapon will be ready to fire again.

[Tarl Cabot]

And a note, are you aware that in the mechlab you can check out a mechs loadout in the testing grounds? And from the Store, you can enter the Mechlab and/or Testing Grounds (with stock loadout). It will also allow you to select which map to use.

So some of the questions and answers you have received, you can test them out in the Testing/proving grounds before even making a purchase. Also good to test out the Mouse Sensitivity. That adjustment comes in handy especially when toggle torso unlock, freeing up the arm mounted weapons from being locked to the torso. Default setting sensitivity makes it difficult to control the arms to put those crosshairs where you want them and keep them on that
spot.

As for the other, see the Mech Stats in this screenshot, at the bottom with Strip Mech, Reset Mech then the Enter Testing Grounds. This can be accessed via Store before making a purchase, where it will say View in Mechlab (you can make temp changes) and Enter Testing Grounds.

So Store, actual Mechlab or Select Mech.

[DylanCheetah]

Thanks for the advice Tarl. I did notice the stats before, but sometimes I do forget about the buttons that allow me to view a mech in the mechlab or try it out in the testing grounds. And I did adjust the mouse sensitivity which helped my aim some.

[DylanCheetah]

I learned about the events not too long ago and I have been trying to complete as many challenges as possible. I have never used MASC, but I have seen other people use it while I was in spectator mode. I agree that the Omnimechs make it easier to test out various strategies. I equipped the advanced zoom but didn't know how to use it. Thanks for explaining that. XD

I very rarely end up attacking at close range tbh. I will check out that YouTube channel. And I kind of learned the hard way about sticking with my team. Although, there are times when I get too focused on one enemy and all of sudden I realize that my team has retreated and a bunch of enemies are swarming me. XD

But I'm trying to pay more attention to my surroundings now.

Thanks for your advice.

[Ignatius Audene]

But be aware. Baraduls channel is NOT a good place for builds! Nothing against him, but if he would play meta this channel would have to end after a month. U can prob still learn something, since he is a ok player.
https://grimmechs.is...im.org/Database
For load outs and better check twitch to see some of the good players. (Jayz, yondu, justcallmeash,thunderkats etc.)

[DylanCheetah]

tbh I would probably just ask one of you about builds since you have so much experience with this game. XD

[Tarl Cabot]

Keep it simple. Front load armor. max armor on Torso locations followed by legs..

[DylanCheetah]

Gotcha.
I think I need more head armor though... a friend of mine totally got a head shot on me. XD

[Horseman]

DylanCheetah, on 12 July 2020 - 03:40 PM, said:

Gotcha.
I think I need more head armor though... a friend of mine totally got a head shot on me. XD

It varies depending on the mech, but in 99% of cases you don't strip more than 1/3rd of head armor to avoid getting headshot by a stray Gauss/ERPPC/HPPC round.

[Mighty Spike]

Tarl Cabot, on 11 July 2020 - 08:51 AM, said:

And a note, are you aware that in the mechlab you can check out a mechs loadout in the testing grounds? And from the Store, you can enter the Mechlab and/or Testing Grounds (with stock loadout). It will also allow you to select which map to use.

Also good to know for newbys is that
you can also change in store mechlab the stock config to your loadout and enter WITH that loadout the testing grounds and try it out if it works that way you wanted without the need to buy it. That way its possible to test every avaible Mech with your own loadout in testing grounds.

If i want to buy a new mech i always rebuild the mech with my loadout and enter testing grounds to see if it works the way i wanted.
Thats a real good feature.

Edited by Mighty Spike, 13 July 2020 - 12:36 AM.

[Horseman]

And on mechs you do own, you can enter the Testing Grounds with the skill tree configuration you have entered in the skills pane - without saving it beforehand. Useful for testing how the mech would handle with your intended skill build.

[DylanCheetah]

Mighty Spike, on 13 July 2020 - 12:14 AM, said:

Also good to know for newbys is that
you can also change in store mechlab the stock config to your loadout and enter WITH that loadout the testing grounds and try it out if it works that way you wanted without the need to buy it. That way its possible to test every avaible Mech with your own loadout in testing grounds.

If i want to buy a new mech i always rebuild the mech with my loadout and enter testing grounds to see if it works the way i wanted.
Thats a real good feature.

Horseman, on 13 July 2020 - 02:08 AM, said:

And on mechs you do own, you can enter the Testing Grounds with the skill tree configuration you have entered in the skills pane - without saving it beforehand. Useful for testing how the mech would handle with your intended skill build.

Didn't know that tbh. Thanks for the advice!
Also, I tried using an auto cannon on my Vapor Eagle and I feel like I did better by using it and 2 large lasers.
I tried a new strategy with my Arctic Cheetah that worked better too. I used 4 med lasers and 3 machine guns and attacked large mechs that were distracted.

Edited by DylanCheetah, 13 July 2020 - 11:39 AM.

[Void Angel]

DylanCheetah, on 13 July 2020 - 08:04 AM, said:

I tried a new strategy with my Arctic Cheetah that worked better too. I used 4 med lasers and 3 machine guns and attacked large mechs that were distracted.

That's the way to use Lights - harassment, either from short or long range. It's difficult to get as high a damage score on a Light simply because of their tonnage and fragility, but it can be done, and they're a ton of fun. I got my Ace of Spades achievement using A Spider (approximated build,) long time ago before they even had ER Medium Lasers or quirks. Even back then it wasn't a meta mech, but I was fortunate enough to get into a game with evenly matched teams that were just aggressive enough to be constantly engaged with each other without going full rush and ending the match. Their only Light died early on, leaving nobody to catch the spider that was bouncing around the edges of the fight...

I killed eight people - and scored top damage. This isn't going to be typical performance (especially on a Spider; even back then the 'mech wasn't near the best Light,) but with a good Light build, you can have an outsized effect on the enemy's ability to focus on your teammates.

You're getting good advice here, but I want to reiterate something that's only been touched on so far: weapon firing characteristics. Any weapon has four main firing characteristics: duration, projectile speed, stare time, and range. I'm not worried here about tonnage or heat efficiency - just how the weapon acts when you pull the trigger. These factors make up what I personally think of as "weapon agreement." It's important that your primary weapons all agree with each other as much as possible.

Take an extreme case: Clan LRMs and micro pulse lasers. NONE of the firing characteristics of these weapon systems agree with each other. cLRMs barely even work at micro-pulse range, and all lock-on weapons require that you stare lovingly at your target pretty much the entire time, while pulse lasers are designed to fire in quick bursts to allow torso twisting. Another example of an unworkable combination is Streaks and AC/20; they have the same optimal ranges, at least, but that's where the good news ends. The AC/20 is one of the premier close-range "brawling" weapons because it not only does pretty high DPS, but also does it all in one shot with a four-second cooldown between; this allows you to twist your torso away from the enemy, presenting him with difficulty in targeting your damaged sections (this is another thing you should know about if you haven't learned already.) Streaks, on the other hand, are 'starebear' weapons designed to allow the unskilled to bully Lights, and which scatter their damage all over the enemy 'mech. :] If you fight an opponent in the same hypothetical machine, but he took normal SRMs, he'll smash your autocannon while you stare at him and laugh as he finishes you off.

So that's why you want your guns to all agree with each other; if you use weapons with firing characteristics that are too different, the mechanical requirements of using those weapons will make them kind of fight each other. That's not to say you have to only use one gun per 'mech! Consider Large Lasers, for example; if you're trying to build a mid-ranged laser boat, but only have five energy hardpoints, you might spend excess tonnage on a Large Laser with ER Medium Lasers to achieve a weapon mix that disagrees only somewhat in range and stare time (because of beam duration.) On the other end of the spectrum, consider the Spider above: It's primarily a harasser/scout build with the Medium Lasers thrown in to squeeze every ounce of (inadequate) firepower I could get onto it. The weapons disagreed strongly in range and somewhat in duration, but the alternative would have required me to strip down what's little armor I had AND downgrade my engine to mount a second ER Large Laser on my arm - resulting in a Light 'mech that is unable to both fight and run from other Lights. At that point, I'd have been better off just buying a Raven-3L and making a Laser Chicken out of it.

In any case, I hope you see what I'm getting at with weapon agreement. Understanding this principle will let you better optimize your builds.

Edited by Void Angel, 14 July 2020 - 04:17 AM.

[AnAnachronismAlive]

Dylan, Dylan ... so many veterans being dotty about you! Bring friends, so us carebears can make em gitguds!

[DylanCheetah]

Void Angel, on 14 July 2020 - 04:08 AM, said:

That's the way to use Lights - harassment, either from short or long range. It's difficult to get as high a damage score on a Light simply because of their tonnage and fragility, but it can be done, and they're a ton of fun. I got my Ace of Spades achievement using A Spider (approximated build,) long time ago before they even had ER Medium Lasers or quirks. Even back then it wasn't a meta mech, but I was fortunate enough to get into a game with evenly matched teams that were just aggressive enough to be constantly engaged with each other without going full rush and ending the match. Their only Light died early on, leaving nobody to catch the spider that was bouncing around the edges of the fight...

I killed eight people - and scored top damage. This isn't going to be typical performance (especially on a Spider; even back then the 'mech wasn't near the best Light,) but with a good Light build, you can have an outsized effect on the enemy's ability to focus on your teammates.

You're getting good advice here, but I want to reiterate something that's only been touched on so far: weapon firing characteristics. Any weapon has four main firing characteristics: duration, projectile speed, stare time, and range. I'm not worried here about tonnage or heat efficiency - just how the weapon acts when you pull the trigger. These factors make up what I personally think of as "weapon agreement." It's important that your primary weapons all agree with each other as much as possible.

Take an extreme case: Clan LRMs and micro pulse lasers. NONE of the firing characteristics of these weapon systems agree with each other. cLRMs barely even work at micro-pulse range, and all lock-on weapons require that you stare lovingly at your target pretty much the entire time, while pulse lasers are designed to fire in quick bursts to allow torso twisting. Another example of an unworkable combination is Streaks and AC/20; they have the same optimal ranges, at least, but that's where the good news ends. The AC/20 is one of the premier close-range "brawling" weapons because it not only does pretty high DPS, but also does it all in one shot with a four-second cooldown between; this allows you to twist your torso away from the enemy, presenting him with difficulty in targeting your damaged sections (this is another thing you should know about if you haven't learned already.) Streaks, on the other hand, are 'starebear' weapons designed to allow the unskilled to bully Lights, and which scatter their damage all over the enemy 'mech. :] If you fight an opponent in the same hypothetical machine, but he took normal SRMs, he'll smash your autocannon while you stare at him and laugh as he finishes you off.

So that's why you want your guns to all agree with each other; if you use weapons with firing characteristics that are too different, the mechanical requirements of using those weapons will make them kind of fight each other. That's not to say you have to only use one gun per 'mech! Consider Large Lasers, for example; if you're trying to build a mid-ranged laser boat, but only have five energy hardpoints, you might spend excess tonnage on a Large Laser with ER Medium Lasers to achieve a weapon mix that disagrees only somewhat in range and stare time (because of beam duration.) On the other end of the spectrum, consider the Spider above: It's primarily a harasser/scout build with the Medium Lasers thrown in to squeeze every ounce of (inadequate) firepower I could get onto it. The weapons disagreed strongly in range and somewhat in duration, but the alternative would have required me to strip down what's little armor I had AND downgrade my engine to mount a second ER Large Laser on my arm - resulting in a Light 'mech that is unable to both fight and run from other Lights. At that point, I'd have been better off just buying a Raven-3L and making a Laser Chicken out of it.

In any case, I hope you see what I'm getting at with weapon agreement. Understanding this principle will let you better optimize your builds.

I usually try to have weapons that are identical in the same group tbh. Thanks for the advice. I didn't think of the shoot and turn torso strategy before.

AnAnachronismAlive, on 14 July 2020 - 05:40 AM, said:

Dylan, Dylan ... so many veterans being dotty about you! Bring friends, so us carebears can make em gitguds!

Not sure what "gitguds" is tbh. XD
But I do have friends that I train alongside in a private lobby and we also play as a group relatively often.

Also, what do you think of my new 2 builds:

===================================================================================
Arctic Cheetah (ACH-C)

Code (loadout):
AV4D<0X0pL0LM7|lBqL02M7|m<2|lB|l^rD0ZT7|iB|iB|iB|UR|iRsD0MM7|lB|lBtL0NM7uL07M7v90HM7w000000

Code (skills):
aff5f9fcf76dffe57b7efc7010000000000000000000000f0efef0f000000

Missile Guidance:
Standard

Head:
Armor (10)

Center Torso:
Armor (44/0)

Left Torso:
Armor (31/0)
Clan ECM x 1
C-ER Med Laser x 1
Clan Dbl Heat Sink x 1

Right Torso:
Armor (31/0)
C-ER Med Laser x 1

Left Arm:
Armor (22)
C-Machine Gun x 3
C-MG Ammo x 1
C-MG Ammo (1/2) x 1

Right Arm:
Armor (22)
C-ER Med Laser x 2

Left Leg:
Armor (31)

Right Leg:
Armor (31)
================================================================================
Vapor Eagle (VGL-1)

Code (loadout):
A[;D4081|8f|l^|OGpd0|mBqd0|mB|HC|MR|MRrI0sI0td0|OG|OGud0|OG|OGv?0w000000

Code (skills):
a0000000000000000d0dffffb5500000000000000000000f0ffcf67000000

Armor:
Ferro Fibrous

Heat Sinks:
Double

Structure:
Endo-Steel

Missile Guidance:
Standard

Head:
Armor (17)

Center Torso:
Armor (82/0)
Clan XL Engine 330
Jump Jets - Class IV x 1

Left Torso:
Armor (59/0)
C-ER Lrg Laser x 1
C-AC/10 x 1
C-AC/10 Ammo x 2

Right Torso:
Armor (59/0)
C-ER Lrg Laser x 1

Left Arm:
Armor (28)

Right Arm:
Armor (28)

Left Leg:
Armor (59)
Jump Jets - Class IV x 2

Right Leg:
Armor (59)
Jump Jets - Class IV x 2
================================================================================

Edited by DylanCheetah, 14 July 2020 - 09:37 AM.

[AnAnachronismAlive]

Ain't very experienced with ACHs or VGLs, so let us see, what em veterans think about these builds.

BUT ... I would recommend 2-3 points of rear armor on lights and 4-5 points of rear armor on mediums/heavies. Usually you don't strip your rear totally naked (at least I dont).

[Void Angel]

Ooof. Let me introduce you to the Link function, so you don't have to type all that out:

See the toolbar immediately above where you're typing in a response? If you look closely, the ninth icon on that toolbox looks like a chain (three links) with a white plus sign on a green circle. If you want to make a link such as my Spider Link in the above post, you can highlight the text (right-click the mouse and drag) and then hit the button to put the code directly in the link. MechDB seems to be the go-to for that on the forums, since Smurfy's Mechlab hasn't been updated in two years and counting.

The Vapor Eagle I haven't played much, though I don't usually like to mix cERLasers with cACs. It's because of that weapon agreement thing; the cERLarge Laser's cooldown (you have to count burn duration, because the cooldown doesn't start till the laser stops) is over TWICE that of the Autocannon - plus you have to lead the autocannon a lot in combat, while the lasers are "hitscan" weapons. If you're not torso twisting, this won't be as much of a problem - but you want to torso twist. All that being said, I've mixed lasers and AC/s before - but generally with shorter-cooldown energy weapons.

Second thing on that build: don't use cACs. The Clan Autocannon is a placeholder weapon. PGI wanted to include the ammunition "swapping" capability that LB-X style autocannons had in the tabletop game- they could fire a "slug" with standard damage rules, or the LB shotgun round. PGI never got it to work, but to satisfy the purists, they put in the "Clan Autocannon" as a placeholder while they tried. This is why the Clan AC/s tonnage, heat, and cooldown stats are exactly the same as the Clan LB- series autocannons. History lessons aside, the "normal" Clan AC suffers from the limitations of Clan Ultra Autocannons (the burst-fire) without the benefits (the ability to double-tap at the risk of a jam.) The marginally improved heat and cooldown of the cAC are simply not worth the tradeoff - plus the cUAC is slightly less bulky.

Now for the ACH, I'd recommend going with This. You want the Heavy Medium Lasers because of (you guessed it) weapon agreement. Machineguns have no cooldown, so to maximize their power you want to keep them on target as much as possible; this isn't totally feasible most times in a Light, but MGs still synergize best with the long burn times of the Heavy Laser class.

Incidentally, I'm over in Qatar with the worst internet I've seen since AOL oversold it's transition to being an ISP. So I'm not playing too much on the regular, so I'm not always confident that my old builds will truly serve you well in the current meta - but that's ok, because the Isengrim have thankfully compiled a database of meta-friendly 'mech builds approved by some of the best players in the game. I recommend you check them out - just be aware that some of those builds run hotter than Satan's waffle iron, and require you to be very good at the game to work. So your (and my) mileage may vary, but they're excellent starting points for what can be done effectively with various 'mechs.

[Void Angel]

PS: I'd still put two points or so into your rear armor. Whenever your 'mech takes damage to its internal structure, that damage has a chance to cause a critical hit. This means that all the pieces of gear (and ammunition, incidentally) have a set number of crit points to them, and if the critical hit does enough "crit damage," your equipment goes away in a splash of burned wiring and molten metal. Ammunition has a chance (10%) to explode, and Gauss Rifles nearly always go boom; other gear is simply destroyed for the remainder of the match. If you put no points at all into your rear arcs, it gives someone who casually painted you with a laser or peppered you with an LB-X a chance to destroy the guns and equipment you need to ruin people's day.

[DylanCheetah]

Thanks for the advice. I will certainly add some armor to the rear. And that Arctic Cheetah loadout with the Heavy Med Lasers looks pretty good. I'll give it a try sometime.

As for the AC, what would you suggest in its place? LBX or something else? The only other loadout I tried with my Vapor Eagle had lasers, missiles, and machine guns. That one worked well too tbh.