642 replies to this topic

[OneTeamPlayer]

ShadowSpirit, on 16 July 2020 - 05:52 AM, said:

Seems like there are more stomps. Literally yesterday, as a tier 2 likely to make it to tier 1, I watched some new player using a champion mech in 3rd person view shoot at buildings.

It seems fun is out the door. If you want to maintain your rating you always have to be a "try hard" ... you can't experiment at high rank because you literally have to carry. New players are getting wrapped up into matches they have no business being in.

Is this really what we've come to? I think we should consider reducing the 12 man requirement. Smaller, more balanced teams.

We could do something drastic, like decrease playercount to 8v8 but then we'd have to either accept that groups truly rule the queue (going from 1/3 to 1/2 of a team) or limit them to 2 players in a change that would have allowed for the 12v12 to function better.

...or we could look at the source of a majority of the problems that now need "fixes" and address that.

Before a certain change solo queue had reasonably balanced, quickly populating matches at all times of day. These matches had balanced tonnages and lances well organized by speed to encourage natural teamwork.

After a certain change all manner of other changes have been added to "fix" the problems caused by the change which was warned against by a majority of the population. Each "fix" is worse than the last and the quality of matches now still is nowhere near the quality of matches for a majority of the playerbase a scant three months ago while now even the wait times are increased by an exponential factor.

How about, instead of coming up with new solutions we take the most obvious simple route and "unfix" the "fix" which is the root of the problems in solo queue in the first place?

Once that very obvious failing point is addressed i can see most of the other concerns quickly coming into equilibrium, giving the majority of the player base an improved experience at the expense of a small fraction (instead of vice versa as it stands now with the vast majority suffering for an extreme minority share).

[Nightbird]

Assuming this fix doesn't kill the game, the next one definitely will. Given the quality of the fix.

[Cluster Fox]

Nightbird, on 16 July 2020 - 06:21 AM, said:

Assuming this fix doesn't kill the game, the next one definitely will. Given the quality of the fix.

I agree with you that reducing the Tier spread is like slapping duct tape on a leaking tank to get less stomps. It has an effect now. However somehow the wait times were considered in the MM balance as important the first time, during the merge. It seems less important now all of a sudden...

As for the next fix:

• If they go for your full WLR system, PSR could work.
  
• If they implement my stability, PSR could work. (Then maybe X,Y,C tuning. But it doesn't really matter without stability)

Otherwise we just get variations on a status quo.

----

Teams or groups are not the issue, if they are balanced properly at the MM level.

Edited by Cluster Fox, 16 July 2020 - 06:39 AM.

[GweNTLeR]

Cluster Fox, on 16 July 2020 - 06:38 AM, said:

Teams or groups are not the issue, if they are balanced properly at the MM level.

Nice joke.
Go to profile -> leaderboards -> sort by: W/L ratio.
Now tell me if you find something strange or interesting.

[Jackal Noble]

Tighter Matchmaker is fine.
Wait times last night were extremely annoying and not fine.
If they aren’t already the band should be T1-T2, just to alleviate the wait times.

Since apparently group is staying merged with solo, which seriously f&$%ed any of the data’s actual value... it legitimately blows my mind that you somehow implemented two radical changes and somehow think your data set is not corrupted.
Has to happen, pick one:

Group tonnage reduced
or
Better Weight match up between teams
or
Team with less group players has additional weight.
I realize that better players don’t necessarily need weight, but in a merge environment, it can help to have that additional armor/firepower to offset the coordination.

[ShadowSpirit]

I had to actually stop playing this morning. Queue time too long. I don't have that kind of time.

I am not sure I have a solution but sitting around and waiting isn't one of them.

[Cluster Fox]

GweNTLeR, on 16 July 2020 - 06:44 AM, said:

Nice joke.
Go to profile -> leaderboards -> sort by: W/L ratio.
Now tell me if you find something strange or interesting.

Oh I know... I said IF

They're not properly balanced right now.

[C E Dwyer]

Nightbird, on 16 July 2020 - 06:21 AM, said:

Assuming this fix doesn't kill the game, the next one definitely will. Given the quality of the fix.

I think it's early days to say whether it's failed.

I thought even trying to fix the issue was a waste of time and money, because I was doubtful, anything was worth changing with the low population count.

The best fixes are still far from nominal without population, as the balance between wait times and quality, is always going to be a struggle

[Nightbird]

C E Dwyer, on 16 July 2020 - 06:51 AM, said:

The best fixes are still far from nominal without population, as the balance between wait times and quality, is always going to be a struggle

Same population, 10x better result:
https://mwomercs.com...cy-with-graphs/

[GweNTLeR]

Cluster Fox, on 16 July 2020 - 06:50 AM, said:

Oh I know... I said IF

They're not properly balanced right now.

Oh, sorry then, I didn't see if)

[Anomalocaris]

Nightbird, on 16 July 2020 - 06:21 AM, said:

Assuming this fix doesn't kill the game, the next one definitely will. Given the quality of the fix.

This is just Paul "teaching" by example. He's punishing people for criticizing the system and complaining about match quality. He's effectively saying, "I told you that if you want better match quality, wait times would take a hit" and he's gonna prove it to you in the most painful way possible so you'll be oh so grateful when he reverts it.

All this despite the fact that a 1 tier separation makes absolutely no sense given the current progress of the PSR reset. It's a big middle finger to the player population, and it feels very, very petty.

There's a really easy solution here that wouldn't require much work.

1. Un-merge the queues
2. Re-institute 8v8 group queue with solo opt-in
3. Go back the old solo queue match making balance (approximately equal number of mechs per class on each team)
4. Change the tier boundaries to better distribute population (doesn't have to be equal sizes, but it can't work as it is).

Yes, it would be better to institute a higher quality revision to the PSR system, but that doesn't appear to be all that easy for PGI. 3 of the 4 changes I suggest have already been done in the past, and changing the Tier boundaries should take 5 min.

Chances of it happening are pretty damn low though. All is proceeding as it has been foretold.
https://steamcharts.com/app/342200

[OneTeamPlayer]

C E Dwyer, on 16 July 2020 - 06:51 AM, said:

I think it's early days to say whether it's failed.

I thought even trying to fix the issue was a waste of time and money, because I was doubtful, anything was worth changing with the low population count.

The best fixes are still far from nominal without population, as the balance between wait times and quality, is always going to be a struggle

Population is not the problem. We had a similar population when we had solo only queue and a fraction of the problems.

There is literally one problem currently and there are 18 different explanations that don't address the root of the singular, blatantly obvious source of all other problems we are currently seeing.

It has to do with a change to the solo queue...

[cl4sh]

Last night during prime time NA I had a couple of drops with wait times less than 4 minutes. The games have been quite different from what I have seen ever before in quick play. No dumb sh*t, focused teams and people just being aware of what is happening. A GREAT experience to have in the Solo-Q (sic). I would gladly wait 4 minutes (not a lot more) to get a drop of that kind. And it is exactly what we all hoped for I guess.

But about 50% of the games had wait times up to 8 minutes, and the match quality was within the distribution we had prior to the tier gates being tightened (stupid stomps, good players farming the hell out of the enemy, people not even shooting back ... ). Waiting 8 minutes to get a match that is the same low quality than before (with almost no wait time) is tough.

[L U C A MCMLXXVI]

no way...so much time to find a match...

[Tongo Rad]

What is a "release valve"?

[ShadowSpirit]

Tongo Rad, on 16 July 2020 - 08:04 AM, said:

What is a "release valve"?

My fun at the expense of your fun.

/s ... but maybe not

[letir]

Waiting times returning with vengeance, and now i'm stuck at 3/4 of T2 with "real" players. In squads. Sigh.

Anyone know how to rapidly drop tier again? I'm alredy sick of high-level nascars.

[Reavers]

I'll say it again. The wait time suck but the quality of matches seems a thousand folds better to me.

I'm digging my way out of five right now which feels good, and excited baout getting into 4, so I can face so battles with the threes as well.

Last night was the most fun I had since starting a day before the reset.

[Reavers]

Tongo Rad, on 16 July 2020 - 08:04 AM, said:

What is a "release valve"?

A release valve just means if the system can't find you a group within your tier inside the set time(in this case four minutes) then it puts you into either one tier higher or lower to find you a group faster.

So if you are in five you get group from tier's 4-5, if you are in tier four you could be getting groups from tier 3-4-5 etc.

[Knight Captain Morgan]

Magic Pain Glove, on 15 July 2020 - 07:47 PM, said:

Wait times in T1 are infinite now almost . There is just not enough population in T1/T2 to do this move right now ...

Also , the chart is incorrect (slightly delayed) I think ? I got to T1 10 Hours after the PSR update patch and its not showing on the chart ? So there might be like 1 day of delay on tiers . It should have displayed 1 Tier 1 on the 2nd day of the chart . ( Overall irrelevant , but yeah there might be a day of delay on the chart )

someone call webster's dictionary. The word "infinite" has now been redifined to mean 4 minutes. So let it be written, so let it be so...