642 replies to this topic

[selfish shellfish]

I couldn't care less how much damage I do in a match or how good or bad I am. What I do care is that I am not getting matched against players who significantly under or outperform me.

The old system allowed everyone to play in the same match regardless of their skill level provided they had just played the game long enough to rise to the higher Tiers.

The new system is probably far from perfect but at least it tries to separate skill levels. Still they probably should have left the old Tier system in place and done the PSR calculation and matchmaking hidden in the background. Everyone rises in Tier and are happy but the matchmaker knows to separate players based their skill rating.

[martian]

selfish shellfish, on 27 July 2020 - 11:24 AM, said:

The old system allowed everyone to play in the same match regardless of their skill level provided they had just played the game long enough to rise to the higher Tiers.

Yeah, PGI admitted that the old system was just an experience bar. It was practically impossible to go down with your PSR.

selfish shellfish, on 27 July 2020 - 11:24 AM, said:

I couldn't care less how much damage I do in a match or how good or bad I am. What I do care is that I am not getting matched against players who significantly under or outperform me.
...
The new system is probably far from perfect but at least it tries to separate skill levels. Still they probably should have left the old Tier system in place and done the PSR calculation and matchmaking hidden in the background. Everyone rises in Tier and are happy but the matchmaker knows to separate players based their skill rating.

I would say that the new system is certain improvement when compared with the old pre-reset PSR or even the older Elo system.

[Hengest]

RangerS09, on 26 July 2020 - 06:23 PM, said:

So you say stomp is irrelevant until MM, well, your chart showing stomp right now is the opposite of impressive. I'm a little irritated at the fact that PSR is not what I want to focus on, but your new scoring method puts it front and center. The way this thing is set up, you can't use "team" tactics to get any PSR for yourself. I don't play to get the highest damage rate, I play to help the team first. But if I don't play to check the boxes on your new PSR rating system, I get screwed, win or lose. This is not the way to keep your members. Fix this system to not punish for moderate damage rates at least. This is getting ridiculous. What is happening here is that if you don't bring your own team to the game, your getting stomped.

Well spoken! I am totally in agreement with all the above said.

[Sawk]

LOL call me old fashion
Me thinks winning, getting kills and assists, and chatting about the targets, the call guy,.
But alas, that means nothing anymore, there all smaller parts of the whole now, you now have to lead to win, get top match score, plus do 500 damage, i have pulling my shots off guys so i do not kill them to fast, or shoot them in the leg, just freaking nuts but i'll get there.

Sawk

[crazytimes]

RangerS09, on 26 July 2020 - 06:23 PM, said:

So you say stomp is irrelevant until MM, well, your chart showing stomp right now is the opposite of impressive. I'm a little irritated at the fact that PSR is not what I want to focus on, but your new scoring method puts it front and center. The way this thing is set up, you can't use "team" tactics to get any PSR for yourself. I don't play to get the highest damage rate, I play to help the team first. But if I don't play to check the boxes on your new PSR rating system, I get screwed, win or lose. This is not the way to keep your members. Fix this system to not punish for moderate damage rates at least. This is getting ridiculous. What is happening here is that if you don't bring your own team to the game, your getting stomped.

You play almost exclusively assaults and heavies. What exactly are you doing to "help the team" with heavies and assaults if you aren't shooting the enemy?

You aren't getting punished, you are getting adjusted to play with other people that also like to "support the team" doing whatever it is you do when you're not shooting anything. The match scoring system has not changed- you are just no longer rewarded in your skill rating for getting carried by other people.

Edited by crazytimes, 27 July 2020 - 06:36 PM.

[martian]

RangerS09, on 26 July 2020 - 06:23 PM, said:

The way this thing is set up, you can't use "team" tactics to get any PSR for yourself. I don't play to get the highest damage rate, I play to help the team first.

Could you describe your "team tactics" and your way of "playing to help the team first", please?

[The Gooch 1951]

So I am an average player at best and have been playing MWO for several years now. I have a decent idea on how to function in the game, my performance issues come from a nerve issue that effects my arms and hands. What I have experienced over the past two weeks is that just about every match I have played in has resulted in a stomp or close to it. I have not seen any close matches that others have been talking about. My PSR is falling and I will be in Tier 4 soon, no big deal. It is the constant stomps that is getting pretty frustrating. From reading the 20 pages of this thread it seems that I am in the minority though.

[martian]

The Gooch 1951, on 27 July 2020 - 08:37 PM, said:

So I am an average player at best and have been playing MWO for several years now. I have a decent idea on how to function in the game, my performance issues come from a nerve issue that effects my arms and hands. What I have experienced over the past two weeks is that just about every match I have played in has resulted in a stomp or close to it. I have not seen any close matches that others have been talking about. My PSR is falling and I will be in Tier 4 soon, no big deal. It is the constant stomps that is getting pretty frustrating. From reading the 20 pages of this thread it seems that I am in the minority though.

It should be better soon.

Some high-skill players have moved from Tier 3 to higher Tiers already (or they will move there soon). I guess that many premade groups and their members have moved to higher Tiers too because they have farmed enough PUGs for that.

So I would say that you will stay in your Tier 3 or 4 with players of the similar skill level. Hopefully your future games will be more balanced.

[Ult9876]

The Gooch 1951, on 27 July 2020 - 08:37 PM, said:

What I have experienced over the past two weeks is that just about every match I have played in has resulted in a stomp or close to it.

I'm personally not seeing any raise of stomp rates compared to before - the rate remains at about one in three for me, and the overall spread of outcomes between close and stomp isn't much different from before either.

Playing in Tier 2 pretty much since the reset what i am seeing though (compared to before, playing mostly in Tier 2) is on the "soft" match quality:

• a truly massive increase of nascar once the gitgud tryhard crowd gets involved in a match (to where the "three rounds" you'd joke about earlier with regard to nascar are the norm now...).
  
• a heavy trend towards meta builds partly due to the PSR system being punishing in higher tiers for anyone trying out alternatives.
  
• occasionally the "23 obstacles to the top score" trope added on top - read: blocking shots and paths, intentionally not targeting enemy mechs, farming for high damage scores.
  
• mass-unbalanced teams. not just the 8-assaults-versus-none situation, but also several times "no lights in domination leading to capping loss", or "nascar transforms from a at least somewhat tolerable line into distinct groups being easily picked off".
  
• any sort of communication leading to much improved match quality and better matchscore spread, although that was never any different
  
• any somewhat cohesive groups dominating "mid-tier" matches to the point where 6-8 up arrows in a match will go to whatever members of groups dropped on either side due to better match score spread than the pugs.

I've also experienced that the new PSR scheme - fully as intended! - turns out rather good at placing people into tiers based on their average match score (at least once they've played around 50-100 matches).

Edited by Ult9876, 28 July 2020 - 12:21 AM.

[Big-G]

So how many of you have tried to make any meaningful PSR gain using lights or light mediums? Tell my about it... just because you can't field as much firepower, you are automatically at a disadvantage, even with taking out 1/3 of the opfor...

[martian]

Big-G, on 28 July 2020 - 04:00 AM, said:

So how many of you have tried to make any meaningful PSR gain using lights or light mediums? Tell my about it... just because you can't field as much firepower, you are automatically at a disadvantage, even with taking out 1/3 of the opfor...

Low-end Medium 'Mechs have been mostly responsible for about 80-90% of my PSR gains since the PSR reset. Yes, I admit that I took other some Light and Heavy 'Mechs as well. Assaults for a few games.

[selfish shellfish]

The concept of a good matchmaker is that everyone plays NORMALLY and the system monitors player performance in order to try and make good matches. The moment you show players their PSR by tying it into a Tier bar they start to try and increase it.

So now we have people complaining that their Tier bar is not rising. And equally many people complaining that they sweat blood to grind their way into Tier 1 and now the game is no longer any fun. As I said before PSR calculation should have been done hidden in the background and not tied into the Tier bar.

[Z Paradox]

Big-G, on 28 July 2020 - 04:00 AM, said:

So how many of you have tried to make any meaningful PSR gain using lights or light mediums? Tell my about it... just because you can't field as much firepower, you are automatically at a disadvantage, even with taking out 1/3 of the opfor...

got to T1 from T5 using lights, got to T1 from T3 using lights (reset), cant play slow builds, too boring... and sometimes I get top dmg, top kills and top MS. and from time to time I get dual H Gauss in CT and get 0 all

If you play lights, you need to use cover, team, tactics and luck, since you don't have armor

you can do LOTS of dmg if you use all that, even in narc rvn

[martian]

selfish shellfish, on 28 July 2020 - 05:38 AM, said:

The concept of a good matchmaker is that everyone plays NORMALLY and the system monitors player performance in order to try and make good matches.

This is what the current matchmaker attempts to achieve.

Play normally and sooner or later you move to a Tier which is the most suitable for your piloting skill. In that Tier you will face other players that have similar piloting and gunnery skill as you have and use similar playstyle as you do, and thus you will enjoy balanced games.

selfish shellfish, on 28 July 2020 - 05:38 AM, said:

The moment you show players their PSR by tying it into a Tier bar they start to try and increase it.

PGI could hide the PSR bar/Tier bar if they wish, but they can not change the basic fact: Some players are objectively better than other players. They handle their 'Mechs better in difficult terrain, they have better gunnery skills, they use better tactics, etc.

Before the PSR/Tier bar has been introduced, there was secret a PSR value - so called "Elo" number. Nobody knew what his Elo was. And yet, many elite players trained to improve their gunnery skill, improved their 'Mechs and weapons, studied maps, etc. They simply wanted to be better in the game, even if they did not know the exact value of their Elo.

Visible PSR/Tier bar or not, some players simply wish to excel.

selfish shellfish, on 28 July 2020 - 05:38 AM, said:

So now we have people complaining that their Tier bar is not rising. And equally many people complaining that they sweat blood to grind their way into Tier 1 and now the game is no longer any fun. As I said before PSR calculation should have been done hidden in the background and not tied into the Tier bar.

Other people complaints are not your problem, are they? Play your normal game and eventually you will move to a Tier where you will get balanced games.

And if you wish, you can hide your PSR/Tier. It's a matter of three mouse clicks.

[martian]

Z Paradox, on 28 July 2020 - 06:17 AM, said:

got to T1 from T5 using lights, got to T1 from T3 using lights (reset), cant play slow builds, too boring... and sometimes I get top dmg, top kills and top MS. and from time to time I get dual H Gauss in CT and get 0 all

If you play lights, you need to use cover, team, tactics and luck, since you don't have armor

you can do LOTS of dmg if you use all that, even in narc rvn

Lots and lots of adrenaline ...

[Z Paradox]

martian, on 28 July 2020 - 06:28 AM, said:

Lots and lots of adrenaline ...

ohhh yes


[/spoiler]

Big-G, on 28 July 2020 - 04:00 AM, said:

So how many of you have tried to make any meaningful PSR gain using lights or light mediums? Tell my about it... just because you can't field as much firepower, you are automatically at a disadvantage, even with taking out 1/3 of the opfor...

Spoiler

Spoiler

spoiler

[spoiler]https://i.ibb.co/N1v...20-03-33-00.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/KsW...20-05-18-07.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/tbV...20-15-50-56.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/mzv...20-20-16-41.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/1vY...20-03-01-44.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/DGg...20-20-56-44.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/kMZ...20-02-39-00.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/09y...20-01-28-00.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/YcX...20-04-54-14.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/9H5...19-22-40-43.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/LYF...19-22-02-43.jpg

Edited by Z Paradox, 28 July 2020 - 07:04 AM.

[martian]

Z Paradox, on 28 July 2020 - 06:55 AM, said:

Stuff.

Pretty good job!

[selfish shellfish]

martian, on 28 July 2020 - 06:25 AM, said:

Other people complaints are not your problem, are they?

You are certainly right there but I fail to realize how my post made you assume that I had a problem with other peoples complaints. Complain away.

martian, on 28 July 2020 - 06:25 AM, said:

And if you wish, you can hide your PSR/Tier. It's a matter of three mouse clicks.

You mean the forum Tier display? It was disabled by default but I turned it on so people can tell what Tier I was at. I thought it was relevant since PSR is tied to the Tier and we have been discussing how the players are distributed in the new PSR/Tier system. I am fully aware I can turn it back off if I wish to.

[martian]

selfish shellfish, on 28 July 2020 - 07:16 AM, said:

You mean the forum Tier display? It was disabled by default but I turned it on so people can tell what Tier I was at. I thought it was relevant since PSR is tied to the Tier and we have been discussing how the players are distributed in the new PSR/Tier system. I am fully aware I can turn it back off if I wish to.

Not only the Forum Tier display, but the 'Mech Lab Tier display as well.

Disable both displays and you will not have to care about what Tier you are in. Simple solution available to every MWO player.

[OneTeamPlayer]

martian, on 28 July 2020 - 07:24 AM, said:

Not only the Forum Tier display, but the 'Mech Lab Tier display as well.

Disable both displays and you will not have to care about what Tier you are in. Simple solution available to every MWO player.

Also known as the Ostrich maneuver.