642 replies to this topic

[Nightbird]

Tarl Cabot, on 13 August 2020 - 06:04 AM, said:

Pulled this from another thread. Simply pointing out, as per Nighbird's post, of how a MM setup would work towards keeping low W/L ratio, for both sides of a drop. So in this drop, one side would have a killer group with "drones" or meatshields/cannon fodder, players with the lowest W/L ratio of that drop, and potentially the lowest Matchscore, Damage, preferably accurate dmg > followed by kills/kmdd, etc wins most games, even more so while working as a team.

And this is one of the first times I have seen where Nightbird posted an example, general example since weight class, etc is not notated.

If the current MM makes teams that minimize PSR differences between two teams, and you have a group of people with 100,000 PSR each (I don't cap PSR), then the only way to minimize the PSR difference is to put the lowest PSR players out of the remaining players into the same team.

The current PSR gives good players and teams a handicap by capping their PSR, so by saying they've above average players instead of great players, they get easier games. That's where stomps come from.

[GARION26]

Lockheed_, on 13 August 2020 - 08:30 AM, said:

I haven't been playing for 2 days now and I got to say I dont miss the game at all. I mean I miss the game before the PSR reset a lot, but just the last time I played, I played a light and saved my teams ***. But as getting flankers out of our assaults back and protect my team (alongside of getting 2 kills, 7 assits, 1 kmdd and 312 dmg) is not really valued by matchscore, I got the down arrow at the end. If the other 2 lights and I would not have been around we would have lost the match and all we got a demotion. That match was pretty much the final straw for me. What a stupid system. I am so tired of just competing for most dmg, not matter how much it is spread.

PSR isn't a reward system.
Ignore it - focus on Wins and Losses and doing what you can to win matches and have fun (I'm assuming you like winning matches more then you care about seeing the PSR arrow go up or down.)

Match score has always had the same component and has offered rewards (XP and CBills) based on it's unchanged math. PSR gain or loss isn't more important then the other things it influences.

[morosis]

Lockheed_, on 13 August 2020 - 08:30 AM, said:

I haven't been playing for 2 days now and I got to say I dont miss the game at all. I mean I miss the game before the PSR reset a lot, but just the last time I played, I played a light and saved my teams ***. But as getting flankers out of our assaults back and protect my team (alongside of getting 2 kills, 7 assits, 1 kmdd and 312 dmg) is not really valued by matchscore, I got the down arrow at the end. If the other 2 lights and I would not have been around we would have lost the match and all we got a demotion. That match was pretty much the final straw for me. What a stupid system. I am so tired of just competing for most dmg, not matter how much it is spread.

well, for what its worth, i think everyone loves to play with players like you. and in a small community i think that matters. for how much i talk here about frustrations and changes needed, i still go into every match trying to just relax, have fun, help the team, and learn something new. In doing that, i feel like i make every game valuable for my own reasons, not PSR reasons. If you're helping the team win, and getting downarrows anyway, maybe look at what else you can do while you're doing those things. maybe its an extra backshot on an assault that you can squeeze in. maybe its an extra UAV or a killer arty. there's always more you can do, even if you're already doing a lot.

one other thing - try to keep in mind that not all down arrows and up arrows are created equal. for a match like that, unless your team had some monster performances outside of you, its likely your PSR barely changed even if you just see the downarrow and feel bad about it. Rule of thumb - if your performance is close to team average, the PSR value change is almost always negligible.

in the meantime, we are working on the game by having these forum conversations, and hopefully the PSR piece gets better. i think there have already been some tweaks to boost the rewards for lights, and hopefully there's more to come. Not that you're asking for anyone's advice, but i am reserving final judgement until the end of this promised 3 month honeymoon phase for the new PSR system, which should be around end of September. PGI has promised us an update and some decisions at that time.

Edited by morosis, 13 August 2020 - 01:46 PM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Lockheed_, on 13 August 2020 - 05:37 PM, said:

We are now at 29 pages, many people have expressed their dissatisfaction and not a word from PGI. How hard can it be to drop a line that says, "we are gonna give the new system X amounts of weeks until we tweak it, please be patient", or "we are currently checking the data and are looking into ways to reward playing objectives and supporting the team"?
I'm tired of this. I quit until they fix this mess if they'll ever do that.

From the OP:

Paul Inouye, on 15 July 2020 - 02:11 PM, said:

As mentioned, we'll continue to monitor and adjust as needed. At the end of 3 months, we'll take a hard look at all numbers involved and discuss with you the next steps.

-Paul

From a thread in June:

Paul Inouye, on 08 June 2020 - 02:52 PM, said:

As Russ mentioned, I'm going to provide a list of all events that currently trigger and apply value to Match Score.

Each of these triggers has a value assigned to it. The values are essentially the weighting of the variable in the overall sum of all actions listed. At the end, the number is multiplied by a decimal multiplier that reduces the overall sum to a number that is manageable.

win - Base value for winning.
loss - Base value for losing.
teamkills - Loss for team killing.
spottingassist - Gain for spotting an enemy and that enemy takes damage. (Press R)
componentdestroyed - Gain for destroying a component on an enemy.
death - Loss for dying.
capturewin - Bonus gain for winning by capture.
captureassist - Gain for helping others capture a capture point by being in the capture radius.
suicide - Loss for suiciding.
saviorkill - Gain for helping a teammate under fire and you get the kill shot on his highest damaging opponent.
defensivekill - Gain for helping a teammate under fire and you get the kill shot on an opponent damaging them.
uavkill - Gain for any kills happening under a UAV you deployed.
uavlockeddmg - Gain for any damage done to a target that is under your UAV.
uavdetection - Gain for any new enemy detected by your UAV.
counterECM - Gain for countering enemy ECM.
counterECMLockedDmg - Gain for damage done to enemies under your counter ECM.
turretkill - Gain for killing a turret.
killblow - Gain for getting the killing blow on your enemy.
killassist - Gain for damage done to enemies upon kill but you didn't explicitly get the kill shot.
teamdmg - Loss for team damage done.
damagedone - Gain for damage done to enemies.
killmostdmg - Gain for getting the kill shot and you did the most damage to your enemy.
solokill - Gain for killing an enemy without the assistance of your teammates.
scouting - Gain for targeting enemies without damage being done.
flanking - Gain for being out of LoS to your enemy and behind enemy line.
capture - Gain for capturing a capture zone.
capturepulse - Gain for time you are capturing in a capture zone.
firstcapture - Gain for capturing the first capture zone in a match.
brawling - Gain for being in combat agaist multiple opponents.
tagdmg - Gain for any damage done to an enemy you have tagged.
tagkill - Gain for any kill done to an enemy you have tagged.
narckill - Gain for any kill done to an enemy you have narced.
hitandrun - Gain for attacking an enemy and escaping their LoS for an amount of time.
tagstealth - Gain for tagging an enemy behind enemies and not being targeted by them.
lanceformation - Gain for time spent near lancemates.
protectmedium - Gain for killing an enemy who is attacking a medium class teammate.
protectlight - Gain for killing an enemy who is attacking a light class teammate.
protectproximity - Gain for killing an enemy who is near any teammate.
powercell_pickup - Gain for picking up a power cell.
powercell_dropoff - Gain for dropping off a power cell.
incrusion_destruction - Gain for destroying objective objects in Incursion.
kill_powercell_carrier - Gain for killing a power cell carrier.
ams_missile_destroyed - Gain for missiles destroyed by your AMS system.
 
matchscore_scale - A multiplier used to reduce the sum of all match score activity to keep numbers reasonable.

Please use this specific thread for proposals. It will help keep all suggestions in one place for easier feedback management. Make sure you click "Like" on the ones that are the best in your view.

If the community can agree on weighting of these events, we will review them on our side to make sure they're fair to as many play styles as possible. Once that is done, we'll implement the numbers and try them out.

Please keep in mind, we're going to need buy-in from the majority of players.

[Spare Knight]

I play and I see my green up arrows and my red down arrows, and you know what? I'm good with it. I am in Tier 3 and hovering around the middle of the bar. It must be where I belong.

I am still seeing a lot of stomps when the Tier 1 players happen to get dumped on one team, but when they are not, we have some good fights. At least the stomps are over pretty quick and we get to lick our wounds and move on. It would be nice to have a higher population, so that this would not happen, but it is what it is.

[Big-G]

I'm happy to bounce between T4/T3... LOL

[Mustang_11b35d]

Hiten Bongz, on 15 July 2020 - 02:50 PM, said:

Currently new players start at T3, but I think that should be changed to at least T4 (what was wrong with T5, anyways?) if the valves are +1/-1...that way they would play with T5 - T3 at the highest.

IMO

I still think newbies should start at T5 though.

I heartily agree. We don't want to discourage new players. They'll have a lot more fun if they start at tier 5. It's no insult - when you're new, you know you're new. Tier 3 is a very different thing than tier 4,5 these days.

Edited by Mustang_11b35d, 14 August 2020 - 11:18 AM.

[General Solo]

T1's too easy
no matter how much I meat shield my team I can't stop winning
And increasing PSR.

And I'm trying hard
Coz I hate this merged queue with a passion.

[Sawk]

well i want put in 2 more cents worth.
Glad to see more comments, i been telling folks they should at least say some thing, so about this triggers, I would like to see my score go up, if its reads like the end of the game when it give's you the stats.
That would be winning, of course kills, i'm a good shot, i can get 2 kills in 200 damage, next would be assist, and i understand that is like 2 or 3 things you can do to get one, and then last the is damage, in that order.
all the rest of the stuff the game records can be a buffer, but second for the lights would be flanking, and saving a mech, try to find a reward, for what makes a good pilot : ).
AS for me and quest back to tier 2, its been 3 weeks i finally got that darn line to move, and you can look up my stats, its still hard with the stomps going on, it nuts it took 10 games to lose the upper half of tier 3 (post PSR) to the upper middle of tier 4, and now i'm 100 drops to get back so little, and you can see i have pushed match score and kills ect, still solo, mostly silent.
but 1 good thing, it seems i am not seeing and lights come straight at me, or being singled out for death, maybe because i am not seeing the tier 1 and 2 or the guys that always looked to kill me or they stop playing.

Sawk, the power of the dark side, if i stay dark to long i will never be nice

[Brom96]

As usual it is grind. It just got a lot worse after the changes, so I don't think I will be able to get back to tier 1. Not enough time, and the recent event doesn't help at all. You are now actually punished if you kill enemies without dealing a lot of damage. And I think the system is geared to promote group people instead of ordinary players. To make them feel elite, I guess. It just downgraded the game and stomps are more common.

Before this latest catastrophic change folks were saying how you should be able to carry the game yourself if you are good enough. Good for them, but 2 or 3 good players don't mean anything if rest of the team is clueless.

And of course normal people will think of red arrow as a demotion. It's psychology and the game is telling your are trash. So why stick with it?

[Onigato69]

I like most of the new changes to PSR. The only complaint I have is NARC and AMS. They can both be very influential to games, but there is very little incentive to use them with the new system, NARC especially. Maybe give a % of missile damage to pilots who NARC a target. There is a skill factor to using NARC and it is underrepresented in the current system. It could use help in Match Score as well. I can keep the enemy team marked for the whole game and get almost nothing for it.

[Zephrym]

Onigato69, on 15 August 2020 - 11:33 AM, said:

I like most of the new changes to PSR. The only complaint I have is NARC and AMS. They can both be very influential to games, but there is very little incentive to use them with the new system, NARC especially. Maybe give a % of missile damage to pilots who NARC a target. There is a skill factor to using NARC and it is underrepresented in the current system. It could use help in Match Score as well. I can keep the enemy team marked for the whole game and get almost nothing for it.

You are Z Paradox's alt account and I claim my 50 C-bills! ������

Edited by Zephrym, 15 August 2020 - 12:00 PM.

[martian]

Brom96, on 14 August 2020 - 11:53 PM, said:

As usual it is grind. It just got a lot worse after the changes, so I don't think I will be able to get back to tier 1. Not enough time, and the recent event doesn't help at all. You are now actually punished if you kill enemies without dealing a lot of damage. And I think the system is geared to promote group people instead of ordinary players. To make them feel elite, I guess. It just downgraded the game and stomps are more common.

I would say that the problem is not as much the new PSR, but pre-made groups in the (formerly) Solo queue and weight imbalance between teams.

As for getting to Tier 1, I am sure that you will get there eventually.

[Amerith]

I apologize ahead of time if this has already been answered, but I didn't see it in any posts.

Why change this after 9 years, especially when its obvious that the player base has gotten so much smaller now?

Edited by Amerith, 19 August 2020 - 10:54 AM.

[Nightbird]

Amerith, on 19 August 2020 - 10:53 AM, said:

Why change this after 9 years, especially when its obvious that the player base has gotten so much smaller now?

Because even with a much smaller pop it's possible to implement much better match makers and get better games.

Possible, but of course we did not implement one lol

[Sawk]

HI folks.
i have an idea, as bad as that sounds, its-- i am finding that to level up, i need to get a green arrow for tier level, and get 1 or 2 kills, also 400 plus damage, and a win for match score, all together, its a little tough, i'll end up being the last man with 1 kill and 150 or lower match score, sometimes i can be the hero, and get in the top 12 every 4th game, but i been seeing, is we get ran over i'll stay out of the PSR matching thing for now.
THE IDEA, i would bring back scouting missions with a twist, only allow tier 1 and 2, and maybe the forth be a guest, its already built, maybe make faction drop only 8 man load to cover space on the server, and you have 4 man teams, all the elite guys get there own place, to fight, maybe allow heavy mechs in, but no assaults, no true pilot only plays a assault, and i know many that can not play a light, or will not is that why your tier 1 ???, i know many times i had to play a light for a team, sometimes i would even out damage them, but that another story.

Sawk only had 2 team kills and 2 to much team damage last week, put some back armor on guys, and stop jumping in front of me--- i will not pull the shot, darkness is the path to power

[Flash Riprock]

Did something change in the last day or two? I had a horrible day yesterday, barely able to get a kill here or there and today I just played 5 games in less than 15-20 minutes, getting killed in the first 1 or 2 minutes of each game.

Granted I am only a mid-Tier 4 player, with a (rising) K/D of .87, but I have been doing pretty well and slowly rising up until yesterday. I have been playing medium and heavies, with a dash of assaults mixed in.

Today was especially frustrating, getting killed almost immediately in all 5 games. I would leave as soon as I got killed, pick a different mech and start a new one. I am not doing anything different, so I am wondering if something else changed? Am I getting mixed in with more Tier 2 players than before? The wait times today were all very fast and short, so it doesn't seem that the extra valves were opened to get more players.

Anyway, it is frustrating like I said and not enjoyable. I am playing this game for fun, not aggravation.

[martian]

Flash Riprock, on 19 August 2020 - 06:07 PM, said:

Did something change in the last day or two?

Today was especially frustrating, getting killed almost immediately in all 5 games. I would leave as soon as I got killed, pick a different mech and start a new one. I am not doing anything different, so I am wondering if something else changed? Am I getting mixed in with more Tier 2 players than before? The wait times today were all very fast and short, so it doesn't seem that the extra valves were opened to get more players.

Anyway, it is frustrating like I said and not enjoyable. I am playing this game for fun, not aggravation.

We do not know, since PGI is not especially famous for communicating with the MWO players. Perhaps Paul Inouye meddled with MM settings. Or maybe not.

Perhaps it is just a temporary losing streak.

Flash Riprock, on 19 August 2020 - 06:07 PM, said:

I had a horrible day yesterday, barely able to get a kill here or there and today I just played 5 games in less than 15-20 minutes, getting killed in the first 1 or 2 minutes of each game.

Granted I am only a mid-Tier 4 player, with a (rising) K/D of .87, but I have been doing pretty well and slowly rising up until yesterday. I have been playing medium and heavies, with a dash of assaults mixed in.

The quality of gameplay always goes down during the challenges. The players using Trial 'Mechs, everybody attempting to complete the challenge in one hour even though they have one week available, etc.

Just be more cautious during the first minutes of the game.

[Spare Knight]

Sawk, on 19 August 2020 - 03:04 PM, said:

HI folks.
i have an idea, as bad as that sounds, its-- i am finding that to level up, i need to get a green arrow for tier level, and get 1 or 2 kills, also 400 plus damage, and a win for match score, all together, its a little tough, i'll end up being the last man with 1 kill and 150 or lower match score, sometimes i can be the hero, and get in the top 12 every 4th game, but i been seeing, is we get ran over i'll stay out of the PSR matching thing for now.

I am trying to understand why you feel the need to "level up." The Tier Levels are not a reward or punishment. They are a way to place players into groups of players with similar skill levels. This should theoretically make it possible for the match maker to build competitive games. If you think you are having a hard time now, what do you expect to find if you were to get placed into Tier 1?

[Amerith]

Spare Knight, on 20 August 2020 - 04:44 AM, said:

I am trying to understand why you feel the need to "level up." The Tier Levels are not a reward or punishment. They are a way to place players into groups of players with similar skill levels. This should theoretically make it possible for the match maker to build competitive games. If you think you are having a hard time now, what do you expect to find if you were to get placed into Tier 1?

And this is a problem atm. We are all being clumped together from Tier 5 to Tier 1 in the same Open Match. (I suspect this is due to a lower player base just so we don't have to wait forever to get a match.) Also, some matches we're seeing a massive difference in weight/types (Like 7 assaults on one team with 1 or 2 assaults on the other.) This problem I'm not sure about, though I suspect it might have been caused by an attempt to lessen the time between waiting for a match or possibly a coding error. Either way, the best thing to do a IMO, is to be patient and play smart.