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Psr Tier Metrics - Round 1


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#581 Nightbird

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Posted 19 August 2020 - 10:59 AM

View PostAmerith, on 19 August 2020 - 10:53 AM, said:

Why change this after 9 years, especially when its obvious that the player base has gotten so much smaller now?


Because even with a much smaller pop it's possible to implement much better match makers and get better games.

Possible, but of course we did not implement one lol

#582 Sawk

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Posted 19 August 2020 - 03:04 PM

HI folks.
i have an idea, as bad as that sounds, its-- i am finding that to level up, i need to get a green arrow for tier level, and get 1 or 2 kills, also 400 plus damage, and a win for match score, all together, its a little tough, i'll end up being the last man with 1 kill and 150 or lower match score, sometimes i can be the hero, and get in the top 12 every 4th game, but i been seeing, is we get ran over i'll stay out of the PSR matching thing for now.
THE IDEA, i would bring back scouting missions with a twist, only allow tier 1 and 2, and maybe the forth be a guest, its already built, maybe make faction drop only 8 man load to cover space on the server, and you have 4 man teams, all the elite guys get there own place, to fight, maybe allow heavy mechs in, but no assaults, no true pilot only plays a assault, and i know many that can not play a light, or will not is that why your tier 1 ???, i know many times i had to play a light for a team, sometimes i would even out damage them, but that another story.

Sawk only had 2 team kills and 2 to much team damage last week, put some back armor on guys, and stop jumping in front of me--- i will not pull the shot, darkness is the path to power

#583 Flash Riprock

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Posted 19 August 2020 - 06:07 PM

Did something change in the last day or two? I had a horrible day yesterday, barely able to get a kill here or there and today I just played 5 games in less than 15-20 minutes, getting killed in the first 1 or 2 minutes of each game.

Granted I am only a mid-Tier 4 player, with a (rising) K/D of .87, but I have been doing pretty well and slowly rising up until yesterday. I have been playing medium and heavies, with a dash of assaults mixed in.

Today was especially frustrating, getting killed almost immediately in all 5 games. I would leave as soon as I got killed, pick a different mech and start a new one. I am not doing anything different, so I am wondering if something else changed? Am I getting mixed in with more Tier 2 players than before? The wait times today were all very fast and short, so it doesn't seem that the extra valves were opened to get more players.

Anyway, it is frustrating like I said and not enjoyable. I am playing this game for fun, not aggravation.

#584 martian

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Posted 19 August 2020 - 08:43 PM

View PostFlash Riprock, on 19 August 2020 - 06:07 PM, said:

Did something change in the last day or two?

Today was especially frustrating, getting killed almost immediately in all 5 games. I would leave as soon as I got killed, pick a different mech and start a new one. I am not doing anything different, so I am wondering if something else changed? Am I getting mixed in with more Tier 2 players than before? The wait times today were all very fast and short, so it doesn't seem that the extra valves were opened to get more players.

Anyway, it is frustrating like I said and not enjoyable. I am playing this game for fun, not aggravation.

We do not know, since PGI is not especially famous for communicating with the MWO players. Perhaps Paul Inouye meddled with MM settings. Or maybe not.

Perhaps it is just a temporary losing streak.


View PostFlash Riprock, on 19 August 2020 - 06:07 PM, said:

I had a horrible day yesterday, barely able to get a kill here or there and today I just played 5 games in less than 15-20 minutes, getting killed in the first 1 or 2 minutes of each game.

Granted I am only a mid-Tier 4 player, with a (rising) K/D of .87, but I have been doing pretty well and slowly rising up until yesterday. I have been playing medium and heavies, with a dash of assaults mixed in.

The quality of gameplay always goes down during the challenges. The players using Trial 'Mechs, everybody attempting to complete the challenge in one hour even though they have one week available, etc.

Just be more cautious during the first minutes of the game.

#585 Spare Knight

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Posted 20 August 2020 - 04:44 AM

View PostSawk, on 19 August 2020 - 03:04 PM, said:

HI folks.
i have an idea, as bad as that sounds, its-- i am finding that to level up, i need to get a green arrow for tier level, and get 1 or 2 kills, also 400 plus damage, and a win for match score, all together, its a little tough, i'll end up being the last man with 1 kill and 150 or lower match score, sometimes i can be the hero, and get in the top 12 every 4th game, but i been seeing, is we get ran over i'll stay out of the PSR matching thing for now.


I am trying to understand why you feel the need to "level up." The Tier Levels are not a reward or punishment. They are a way to place players into groups of players with similar skill levels. This should theoretically make it possible for the match maker to build competitive games. If you think you are having a hard time now, what do you expect to find if you were to get placed into Tier 1?

#586 Amerith

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Posted 20 August 2020 - 04:30 PM

View PostSpare Knight, on 20 August 2020 - 04:44 AM, said:

I am trying to understand why you feel the need to "level up." The Tier Levels are not a reward or punishment. They are a way to place players into groups of players with similar skill levels. This should theoretically make it possible for the match maker to build competitive games. If you think you are having a hard time now, what do you expect to find if you were to get placed into Tier 1?


And this is a problem atm. We are all being clumped together from Tier 5 to Tier 1 in the same Open Match. (I suspect this is due to a lower player base just so we don't have to wait forever to get a match.) Also, some matches we're seeing a massive difference in weight/types (Like 7 assaults on one team with 1 or 2 assaults on the other.) This problem I'm not sure about, though I suspect it might have been caused by an attempt to lessen the time between waiting for a match or possibly a coding error. Either way, the best thing to do a IMO, is to be patient and play smart.

#587 Sawk

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Posted 20 August 2020 - 04:31 PM

well this and easy answer, back some years ago, when i was done building mechs and not worried about about having cash ect ect, and comp teams started forming, its was all about that TEIR LEVEL, of course some said, its other things.
but i did miss out being in a few good teams, they only wanted tier 1 players, not the guy that never did anything, oh the precise karls list and website, that tracks your match score oh my.
but needless to say i found some guys to play with, and a teamspeak to use, and helped them, then i started going back down to tier 3, hmm after 17000 drops and star captain or so in 2 CLANS, i think i know a little about the maps, how to win and the leadership of things, (also retired army). i did play solo enough to keep tier 2 active.
TEIR LEVEL is like RANK in the army, and folks want to say i can do that, and other folks want to boost i am better then you a low life use less little piece of, EDIT, had it happen last night, had happen in forum the one just before this, i have no voice because i am not a a level high enough the JARLS LIST.
SO that is your answer, folks judge folks, so give the little new guy at least one path up in tier level, other then total darkness like my self never helping.
OHH and thanks for the change i got team kill list night and i got zero match score so some one changed some thing, go figure.
SAWK Darkness is the path to power

#588 Magic Pain Glove

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Posted 20 August 2020 - 07:01 PM

Soup queue screwed everything over . Groups cant be balanced against other groups nor can the matchmaker balance groups against pugs ...

At this point I dont think any PSR system will solve it , and any implementation of PSR will always be a bandaid .

#589 Horseman

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Posted 20 August 2020 - 10:45 PM

View PostSawk, on 19 August 2020 - 03:04 PM, said:

i have an idea, as bad as that sounds, its-- i am finding that to level up, i need to get a green arrow for tier level, and get 1 or 2 kills, also 400 plus damage, and a win for match score, all together, its a little tough,
It's supposed to be tough, but it's nowhere near as tough as you claim.

Quote

THE IDEA, i would bring back scouting missions with a twist, only allow tier 1 and 2, and maybe the forth be a guest, its already built, maybe make faction drop only 8 man load to cover space on the server, and you have 4 man teams, all the elite guys get there own place, to fight, maybe allow heavy mechs in, but no assaults, no true pilot only plays a assault, and i know many that can not play a light, or will not is that why your tier 1 ???, i know many times i had to play a light for a team, sometimes i would even out damage them, but that another story.
That would not help you in any way.

#590 crazytimes

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Posted 21 August 2020 - 07:24 PM

View PostSawk, on 19 August 2020 - 03:04 PM, said:

HI folks.
i have an idea, as bad as that sounds, its-- i am finding that to level up, i need to get a green arrow for tier level, and get 1 or 2 kills, also 400 plus damage, and a win for match score, all together, its a little tough,

That sounds about average for contribution to a win. If you're not getting that then you haven't been adjusted to the right tier yet.

It's not a measure of experience. It's not a goal. It doesn't even matter much in terms of MM, because the only difference when I ticked over was now it takes an extra minute or two waiting for the gates to open and I drop with cadets still. It just means when there's enough people online, you'll play more with people around your skill level.

If you stop deliberately killing people as well it might help. It guarantees a low match score.


#591 OZHomerOZ

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Posted 21 August 2020 - 08:10 PM

View PostAmerith, on 19 August 2020 - 10:53 AM, said:

I apologize ahead of time if this has already been answered, but I didn't see it in any posts.

Why change this after 9 years, especially when its obvious that the player base has gotten so much smaller now?


Its the business plan to shut the game down gracefully

Farm, drive the weaker players out of the game, hear the lamentation of stupped people - Why are wait times get longer...drool, lick window

Tragedy of the commons - Question: where is the player base?

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 21 August 2020 - 08:14 PM.


#592 ShadowSpirit

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Posted 25 August 2020 - 12:07 PM

So is this a done deal? Seeing a lot of stomps. I'm mid tier 2 at the moment.

#593 D V Devnull

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 11:02 AM

View PostAmerith, on 19 August 2020 - 10:53 AM, said:

Why change this after 9 years, especially when its obvious that the player base has gotten so much smaller now?

Sorry that I didn't get back to you soon enough on this. :(

To answer your question, PGI is trying to avoid losing any more players, at least so far as they possibly can. It was either do it, or let the game finish dying. :huh:

Unfortunately, PGI's Paul Inouye utterly FAILED to maintain the aspect of Total Team Tonnage Balance and resulted in allowing stomps to keep plaguing the efforts to fix things. As long as they continue to be "death-gripped" upon having PSR insanely close, but keep on failing to reinstate Total Team Tonnage Balance to make sure that any given Match is not horribly lopsided, then players are going to continue to keep giving up on MWO and leaving. He simply doesn't have a choice here about actually going the full & right way on repairing MatchMaking so things aren't in an unbalanced state. The longer he fails to fix this, then the more angry I'm going to be, particularly because of how it degrades & destroys the overall experience for everyone. :angry:

Of course, that then leaves the whole Match Score System to need pumping up on almost all the Non-Damage Actions that exist in non-Skirmish-only modes. Without this change, the PSR & MM Systems simply can not properly recognize & place any Mech Pilots who are better at things other than Damage during gameplay. Like, where the heck was our Role-Based Warfare supposed to fit into this anyway? :o

~Mr. D. V. "I don't expect it to happen, but let's hope PGI's Paul Inouye finally fixes this properly." Devnull

#594 GARION26

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 12:22 PM

View PostOZHomerOZ, on 21 August 2020 - 08:10 PM, said:


Its the business plan to shut the game down gracefully

Farm, drive the weaker players out of the game, hear the lamentation of stupped people - Why are wait times get longer...drool, lick window

Tragedy of the commons - Question: where is the player base?


So your saying it's a coordinated plan by the company to drive themselves out of business? Or are you being sarcastic? Sometimes it's hard to tell.

I'd suggest they have a lot of data on who spends money and what the game may want to do to get them to spend more money on this free to play game. I know we individually have a good sense of what we think would make us spend more or keep us playing the game but they've got a lot of information on the player base's overall spending habits - and how those spending habits did or didn't change during the trial group Q merge.

#595 Nesutizale

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 02:38 AM

Well we only know that Mechpacks don't bring in the money they used to do and with that the biggest income for the game died of...at least that is how I understood it.

So most likely people buying primetime and MC are the next best income?
I also guess that PGI has the data, question is what are they doing with it? Dosn't feel like much

#596 Damnedtroll

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Posted 28 August 2020 - 06:45 AM

Got to tier 1, got incredible losing streak doing so, with teams doing all sort of headless chicken strategy. Things will settle down now probably.

Sad that the game is losing players but it have been there for a long time, and not a lot of upgrades lately... They got me waiting so long for my hatchetman, axeman and berserker package... would have paid for these packages.

#597 Alreech

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Posted 29 August 2020 - 01:02 AM

View PostNesutizale, on 28 August 2020 - 02:38 AM, said:

So most likely people buying primetime and MC are the next best income?

No need to buy Premium time, it's a pretty common reward in events. Same with MCs.
Premium time is also only helpfull for grinding XPs and C-Bills, things most players have more than enough.

MCs are only needed to buy Mechbays for new Mechs, new Mechs what be needed to grind up with XPs.
And XP-grinding with an unskilled Mech will ruin your K/D, so don't do it.
Most Mechs are bad anyway, so after getting some goods Mechs it isn't sensible to buy bad Mechs and grinding them up.

Edited by Alreech, 29 August 2020 - 01:14 AM.


#598 Alreech

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Posted 29 August 2020 - 01:11 AM

View PostD V Devnull, on 27 August 2020 - 11:02 AM, said:

Of course, that then leaves the whole Match Score System to need pumping up on almost all the Non-Damage Actions that exist in non-Skirmish-only modes. Without this change, the PSR & MM Systems simply can not properly recognize & place any Mech Pilots who are better at things other than Damage during gameplay. Like, where the heck was our Role-Based Warfare supposed to fit into this anyway? Posted Image


Role Warfare work only in coordinated teams that assign roles before the match.
It can't work if you create the team for one match with random players and than disband the team after the match.
(Not showing a Players role with a Role-Icon like other Shooters do it - for example the Icons for Sniper, Assault, Medic, Anti-Tank in Battlefield - is also a good way to prevent Role Warfare).

Creating a team of random players of the same skill level works very well in fast paced shooters with equal terms (and respawns).
I wonder why it doesn't work in a game without respawns, slow gameplay and vastly different player unit abilities (light vs. assault Mechs).

Edited by Alreech, 29 August 2020 - 01:14 AM.


#599 Damnedtroll

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Posted 29 August 2020 - 03:13 PM

View PostAlreech, on 29 August 2020 - 01:02 AM, said:

No need to buy Premium time, it's a pretty common reward in events. Same with MCs.
Premium time is also only helpfull for grinding XPs and C-Bills, things most players have more than enough.

MCs are only needed to buy Mechbays for new Mechs, new Mechs what be needed to grind up with XPs.
And XP-grinding with an unskilled Mech will ruin your K/D, so don't do it.
Most Mechs are bad anyway, so after getting some goods Mechs it isn't sensible to buy bad Mechs and grinding them up.

Yep getting new mech with hard to find sweet spot ruin the game experience, lol, got so many of them...

View PostAlreech, on 29 August 2020 - 01:11 AM, said:


Role Warfare work only in coordinated teams that assign roles before the match.
It can't work if you create the team for one match with random players and than disband the team after the match.
(Not showing a Players role with a Role-Icon like other Shooters do it - for example the Icons for Sniper, Assault, Medic, Anti-Tank in Battlefield - is also a good way to prevent Role Warfare).

Creating a team of random players of the same skill level works very well in fast paced shooters with equal terms (and respawns).
I wonder why it doesn't work in a game without respawns, slow gameplay and vastly different player unit abilities (light vs. assault Mechs).


Without respawn, a rolling ball effect happen when you lose a couple of players on one team, and it's hard to stop it... pretty hard.

#600 Horseman

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Posted 30 August 2020 - 02:52 AM

View PostD V Devnull, on 27 August 2020 - 11:02 AM, said:

Of course, that then leaves the whole Match Score System to need pumping up on almost all the Non-Damage Actions that exist in non-Skirmish-only modes. Without this change, the PSR & MM Systems simply can not properly recognize & place any Mech Pilots who are better at things other than Damage during gameplay. Like, where the heck was our Role-Based Warfare supposed to fit into this anyway? Posted Image
With a caveat: they should only be rewarded higher if you won by objective rather than killing the entire opfor.
And no, your defense of "being better at things other than damage" doesn't hold water. Consider the match in very abstract terms: you have two teams competing to either eliminate the entire enemy force or complete the objective before the other team does.

Thing is... "being good at dealing damage" matters even there: each mech is an asset and by tying up those assets, forcing them out of position or eliminating them entirely your team's damage dealers are allowing the "objective players" to do their job at all.
Consider these two scenarios. Conquest. Your entire team was wiped out. Caps are at 600 and 730, you have one cap left and the enemy took four already.
  • The enemy team has five mechs remaining, two of them are fully mobile lights able to reach your cap point in ten seconds
  • The enemy team has five mechs remaining, all halved and/or legged and only able to reach your cap point in ~20 seconds

One of those is a loss. One is a narrow win, and only because your damage dealers did their job.

Edited by Horseman, 30 August 2020 - 02:52 AM.






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