642 replies to this topic

[SirHavan]

crazytimes, on 16 July 2020 - 02:52 AM, said:

Happy with point 1. Point 2... average tier would be better. For every elite group, there's a bunch of average groups and a bunch of absolute potatos. Punishing a tier 1 team by making 1/3 of their players tier 5s would not be a leap forward.

Thought process is this: if groups are 'better' than the similar tier solo players, make grouping up more important to use team work. I don't think it would discourage players from doing it or playing the game, and will also give T1 players shorter wait times.

another suggestion:
3. Make all new players (cadets) start in T4. Even with zero sum, it will level the playing field.

[Too Much Love]

So it confirmed what I always expected - I'm one of the best MWO players in the entire Universe (*laughs in Russian*).

Sorry for this not so humble post.

...I had to tell it

[Horseman]

crazytimes, on 16 July 2020 - 02:52 AM, said:

Happy with point 1. Point 2... average tier would be better. For every elite group, there's a bunch of average groups and a bunch of absolute potatos. Punishing a tier 1 team by making 1/3 of their players tier 5s would not be a leap forward.

Average... rounded up.

[Kroete]

RJF Volkodav, on 16 July 2020 - 02:19 AM, said:

Proposals:
2) Match groups by highest player tier value. I.e. if a group have any tier 1 player than its considered a T1. Or calculate group's average tier and use if for MM.

Groups have an advantage over solo players,
setting them as highest players tier would be too much for a tier1 + 3 tier4-5 players,
average tier would be to low because the group advantage,
the average tier +1 would count for the groups average skill and the group advantage.

EDIT:
Average -1 not +1 we are going down in tiers, +1 would give them an greater advantage.

Edited by Kroete, 16 July 2020 - 04:26 AM.

[RRAMIREZ]

Kroete, on 16 July 2020 - 03:55 AM, said:

the average tier +1 would count for the groups average skill and the group advantage.

you meant average tier -1?

[Kroete]

RRAMIREZ, on 16 July 2020 - 04:07 AM, said:

you meant average tier -1?

Yes, missmatched it. Down, not up ...


If you want in even more balanced and if pgi has a capable coder:

Add the psrs of the group together,
multiply it by 1.x (x = 0.10 for every groupmember*),
divide it by the number of groupmembers
and use this psr for the groups tier.

* x = 0.10 is an suggestion and inplys that a two man is 20% more effective then 2 solos, maybe it needs to be 0.15 or 0.20 ?

Edited by Kroete, 16 July 2020 - 04:19 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

All this work.

The most obvious questions are.

1.Has it produced less stomps.

2.Has it made games more enjoyable.

3. Has it increased the length of time games last.

If the asnwer to these questions is not, then graphs showing the rise and fall of players, is of no value.

Sure, after two weeks of play, it's early days, and this reset is going to take a couple of months to settle, a lot longer if people have a low match count.

[L U C A MCMLXXVI]

So...is better come back to tier 3...wait to play is no good...

[Reavers]

I can tell you as someone who started the day before the reset I spent the entire time getting pounded and learning a ton. Last night with the change as a lowly tier 5 player my matches took forever, but the matches I got to play were closer, and I played up arrows in all of them but one.

This is the first time I've felt hope that I could climb my way out of the hole I was in. Before I'd get two or three wins, and then get pounded for the next few hours and lose all my progress. Now, I'm moving up.

Tier four here I come baby.

Granted most of the matches I play now are probably tier 4 because I'm pretty sure it takes the full five minutes to get into a match now.

Even with the wait I'm ecstatic because I'm contributing and moving up. We'll see if I can hit tier four this weekend. It'll be a huge leap from zero experience in my bar to tier 4 but I got this.

Thanks PGI for giving me some hope. Last night was fun, one down arrow, fifteen up arrows. :-)

L U C A MCMLXXVI, on 16 July 2020 - 04:41 AM, said:

So...is better come back to tier 3...wait to play is no good...

I think your sweet spot as a good player would be tier two. You get matches with players from tier one and tier three then.

Edited by Reavers, 16 July 2020 - 04:50 AM.

[RRAMIREZ]

To be honest, I didn't know changing the valves rules was in the spectrum...
(edit: just that more relevent "PSR" would help MM to give more balanced matches)
Not that it doesn't make sense, but not sure if it alignes well with bell curve tier repartition + low population (and loot bag farm event ^^)
Didn't drop for the last two days, I'll see tonigth.

Edited by RRAMIREZ, 16 July 2020 - 06:06 AM.

[Reavers]

C E Dwyer, on 16 July 2020 - 04:39 AM, said:

All this work.

The most obvious questions are.

1.Has it produced less stomps.

2.Has it made games more enjoyable.

3. Has it increased the length of time games last.

If the asnwer to these questions is not, then graphs showing the rise and fall of players, is of no value.

Sure, after two weeks of play, it's early days, and this reset is going to take a couple of months to settle, a lot longer if people have a low match count.

I can say last night most of my matches were close with the losing team having 4-8 kills. Although I was crushed in one match and had one stomp in another. Which is better then the stomp stomp stomp I've been having. It's not fun to always win 12-0 or lose12-0.

This new system seems to tighten things up, and if you've worked the system into a tier you don't belong in things are going to be tough for them.

Hope you have fun man!

[Vamblery]

Voice of Kerensky, on 15 July 2020 - 10:51 PM, said:

You know ... The domination regime often wins the vote. Please tell me where to retreat in this case? Out of the circle?
In general, LRM pilots are very courageous. When you have already sold all your armor on the normal mech and cannot stand on the front line, you try to step back a little. And when the LRM pilots see this, they run even further even faster.
Do these people deserve the award along with the rest of the players?

Strange but when i play lrm i try to get close to enemy. Sometimes i'm more brawler than my team brawlers ... Please dont demonize lrm pilots.

[- - - - MADMAN - - - -]

question
do the tier 3 numbers include "all accounts" or "all active accounts"

if its all accounts then that spike in tier 3 isnt quite accurate as it includes those grinding for their spot AND those who arent playing but have accounts.
just curious

if it includes all accounts it would be nice to see that same spread with all active accounts say in the last 6 months?

jut curious. otherwise i like the psr reset. so far ive heard mostly good talk in in game chats about it.

[DevinMace]

SirHavan, on 16 July 2020 - 02:36 AM, said:

My suggestions:

1. Please make the release valve 2 min (reduce from 4 min) to reduce wait times

2. All groups should be considered T1 - I know this might not be in the spirit of the changes, but it will put groups with the best solo players and avoid the skew of calculating the average group tier.

yes my group of people who have all started playing in the last 1-5 months would love this.... this would be a completely stupid idea

[OneTeamPlayer]

Here's what happens in this change.

T1 solo players wait significantly longer times and almost always drop with at least one "elite" group who drives the match for the rest of the 20 other players.

T5 solo players wait significantly longer times and almost always drop with the worst of the worst groups who drive the match for the rest of the 20 other players

T2, T3, and T4 are "chaos queue" with a mix of skills ranging to "should probably be in t1 or T5" to "wide-eyed rookie" to "casual average player".

Tonnage imbalance was not mentioned in any way.

Groups still rule the solo queue.

Wait times are unacceptable during primetime on the weekdays for any tier not attached to T3 which would incentivize higher tier players to start "smurfing" and lower their tier just to attain regular matches without the need to wait an average of 7 minute per (my average the other night) per game.

The inability to accept or even discuss the reality that a majority of problems in this setup are due to the fact that there are groups in the solo queue when groups were removed from solo play originally because of these exact same problems is beyond the pale.

Mark my words, if this keeps up T1 matches are about to get truly strange as a majority of the players try out "alternate" builds in a mad scramble back down to T2 just to be able to crank out a set of matches (instead of reading a book) in the evenings.

DevinMace, on 16 July 2020 - 05:26 AM, said:

yes my group of people who have all started playing in the last 1-5 months would love this.... this would be a completely stupid idea

It's an expected solution because solo players don't want to play with group players and we never did. It's not your fault that PGI broke your queue, but if it existed it would have had these same problems which is why it died in the first place. PGI then took the system and forced it on a functional group queue leading to the exact same problems seen in the old group queue and every other type of format groups touch.

Someone in this very thread said "wait times aren't so bad, they're similar to faction warfare (FW)".

Yeah, they are similar to faction warfare, which saw imbalanced groups kill all interest in the game to the point where getting matches even in primetime is an absolute chore. Why anyone would think that's acceptable when we had a solo queue that was producing quick, reasonably balanced matches in <1 minute on weekdays outside of primetime is unfathomable.

Edited by OneTeamPlayer, 16 July 2020 - 05:35 AM.

[NumberFive]

Innovation:
To reduce queue times to an acceptable level without sacrificing game quality, every x minutes you wait in QP queue, your temporary tier value move one step closer to 3.

It will mean that there will be an incidental mix of higher skill and lower skill players in the mid-level games, but that shouldn't upset things too much. Getting wrecked by an iron god from time to time isn't demoralising and isn't upsetting the balance, neither is mud-stomping the occasional NumberFive.

Centrally adjust x to keep the right balance.
Or/ Let the player adjust x to balance themselves, within certain boundaries.

Edited by NumberFive, 16 July 2020 - 05:51 AM.

[ShadowSpirit]

Seems like there are more stomps. Literally yesterday, as a tier 2 likely to make it to tier 1, I watched some new player using a champion mech in 3rd person view shoot at buildings.

It seems fun is out the door. If you want to maintain your rating you always have to be a "try hard" ... you can't experiment at high rank because you literally have to carry. New players are getting wrapped up into matches they have no business being in.

Is this really what we've come to? I think we should consider reducing the 12 man requirement. Smaller, more balanced teams.

Edited by ShadowSpirit, 16 July 2020 - 05:56 AM.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Some waits were a bit long, but matches were the best I have had (fun-wise) in years...for QP anyway. 2 stomps, 2 nail biters , 6 or so competitive games. Sure, there were some true heavyweight Comp groups in the queue (2 of the matches) ...one match I was in they faced off on opposite sides. The (merely) good/very good groups didn’t control the matches I was in last night. Played a 4 man of good/very good players the last 3 matches in a row and they lost all those 3, all very competitive...one a nail biter. I thought the tier matchmaking change worked well in concept...just not enough population in upper (and probably lower) tiers yet.

[John Bronco]

Why worry about maintaining your rating?

[ShadowSpirit]

BlaizerP, on 16 July 2020 - 06:02 AM, said:

Why worry about maintaining your rating?

I guess that was directed at me? I wouldn't say worry about it but I would maintain it for the purposes of being challenged and not getting matched with truly new players.

It's not fun to constantly get stomped. If we want this community to actually continue we have to foster and bolster some new blood.

I was not lying when I said i watched a true noob get blasted yesterday. It wasn't even funny. I actually felt bad. I tried to reach out to them but I think there was a language hurdle.