642 replies to this topic

[Firefox54]

Have to admit ... once the tiers were tightened, I thought that the matches were really good and I didn't mind waiting a few minutes for good matches.

In the few games I played today ... the stomps were much more evident (I wondered if something changed .. and it had). I'll have to play more to see if that was just an outlier but others already suggested the same.

Overall ... before the tier tightening, the matches were quick but terrible ... after, good but delayed ... I'll take the latter.

[Nightbird]

Firefox54, on 20 July 2020 - 02:06 PM, said:

Have to admit ... once the tiers were tightened, I thought that the matches were really good and I didn't mind waiting a few minutes for good matches.

In the few games I played today ... the stomps were much more evident (I wondered if something changed .. and it had). I'll have to play more to see if that was just an outlier but others already suggested the same.

Overall ... before the tier tightening, the matches were quick but terrible ... after, good but delayed ... I'll take the latter.

Once more people get a chance to move to T1/T2 and T4/T5, it can be tightened again. A 4-5 minute average wait time = 65% of time playing QP = waiting. I don't think wait times should ever be more than 33% before people get mad, so 2 mins tops before the loading and drop timer.

[Tarl Cabot]

Still, should reseed the remaining Tier 3 players between 2-4. If you have 1000 pilots who only play a few games but based on avg MS over the last 100-500 games would eventually make it to Tier 2 or Tier 4 eventually, why not place them there now? split it 25-50-25 or 30-40-30. It may put me/alt into Tier 2, then I can decide if I want to continue and try to run meta, or play laid back and take my down arrow lumps. (hopefully it would at least break even, or more down then up).

And why go whole number increments, while not reduce the release values by 30 secs instead of 1 minute?

And start Cadets in Tier 4 at least.. 75%. it is only zero-sum PER match, against both your teammates and the opponents MS with a slight boost to the winning side.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 20 July 2020 - 06:15 PM.

[MeterH1]

This new scoring system is absolutely stupid beyond measure... If as a team, we decide on incursion that the Meds, Heavy's, and Assaults will provide a distraction to all the lights to go destroy the base and we win, every single light who played a major role in the victory will still go down in rank. This is stupidity and mech pilots should not be penalized for playing the gamemode, especially when it is a team effort and plan to play like that. PGI, you really need to rethink how you do the scoring.

[MeterH1]

morosis, on 20 July 2020 - 01:13 PM, said:

Yes, all is well. Games are great. People are here expressing vast amounts of frustration for no reason. We all love being angry instead of enjoying the close, usually supportive, usually friendly community that this has always been. If this continues, pretty soon the "meaningful PSR" you mentioned will only be meaningful to yourself and about 17 other people.

Apologies for the sarcasm and tone, but this is an 8 year old game. People have invested hundreds and thousands of dollars into their game experience. It is not ok for huge swaths of the population to have their game experience completely changed or outright sacrificed in order for a very small minority of people to have "better" games. I'm glad you're having fun, but our reason for existing is not just to provide a player population to ensure others get good games. Our expectation is to enjoy this experience too.

https://imgur.com/a/a9tc7HA basically sums it up for me.

I think the fact that so much of the player population is rolling up their sleeves to try to help "fix" the game is admirable. There are some amazing folks in this community and i am really grateful that everyone is interested in making the experience as great as possible. we all know how amazing of a game this can be when things are working. we all know that it has so much potential.

but this, what we have today, is just not acceptable. the player behaviors i see in game are selfish and dysfunctional. the metrics used to evaluate our performance as individuals are flawed and failing. the matchmaker is not able to create balanced games, and i'm not sure its able to accommodate the sudden change in both player behavior and presence of groups.

in the end, we must remember that we are customers. the game is a product. we do not own the product, all we can do is express dissatisfaction and trust that the people who own the product take our feedback seriously and make changes. i will come back to the game when there have been sufficient changes, as i'm sure many others will.

I wish PGI would listen to us! They once, about 6 weeks back or so, talked about going to a true zero sum point system. Then they didn't... And further, under this new system, they penalize players who play the game modes.. For example, I just played a incursion game where they heavier mechs provided a distraction and all the light mechs attacked the base. This was a team effort, and it brought us a victory, but it caused all of us lights to go down in psr... For playing the gamemode, and ultimately, gaining the victory. All PGI has done is go from bad to worse...

[Tarl Cabot]

MeterH1, on 20 July 2020 - 06:23 PM, said:

I wish PGI would listen to us! They once, about 6 weeks back or so, talked about going to a true zero sum point system. Then they didn't... And further, under this new system, they penalize players who play the game modes.. For example, I just played a incursion game where they heavier mechs provided a distraction and all the light mechs attacked the base. This was a team effort, and it brought us a victory, but it caused all of us lights to go down in psr... For playing the gamemode, and ultimately, gaining the victory. All PGI has done is go from bad to worse...

Your definition is different from PGI definition, or within their range. The PSR per drop is a zero-sum, the points awarded comes out to being zero.

PGI could have left it at a static thresholds but make it show the thresholds themselves would be "zero-sum" 5/3/1/0 and 0/1/3/5, then others got antsy that players who scored high in a lost, exceeding 401 MS would break even instead of moving up 1 point.

back and forth, then PGI gave directions. a 24 to -24 PSR values (instead of the static PSR with static MS thresholds) for a zero sum, and make it so highest MS to lowest MS, regardless of win/loss or have win grant a slight increase compared to the losing side, or have it be more.. flexible? The greater the MS between the high and low end, the greater the movement for the extremes..

And redoing the PSR/Tiers was in response to PGI making the Soup Queue in its current settings, combining max 4-man and the solo queue.

[MeterH1]

Tarl Cabot, on 20 July 2020 - 06:55 PM, said:

Your definition is different from PGI definition, or within their range. The PSR per drop is a zero-sum, the points awarded comes out to being zero.

PGI could have left it at a static thresholds but make it show the thresholds themselves would be "zero-sum" 5/3/1/0 and 0/1/3/5, then others got antsy that players who scored high in a lost, exceeding 401 MS would break even instead of moving up 1 point.

back and forth, then PGI gave directions. a 24 to -24 PSR values (instead of the static PSR with static MS thresholds) for a zero sum, and make it so highest MS to lowest MS, regardless of win/loss or have win grant a slight increase compared to the losing side, or have it be more.. flexible? The greater the MS between the high and low end, the greater the movement for the extremes..

And redoing the PSR/Tiers was in response to PGI making the Soup Queue in its current settings, combining max 4-man and the solo queue.

It's not truly a zero sum... It has become much more based on a complex formula that actually accounts for winning or losing to determine the range in which you go up or down.. Where in a true zero sum, win/loss would not factor in, but match score alone... However, while we could debate that all day, it does not change the fact that PGI has made it where if you play as a team with a strategy for the gamemode selected, those who are responsible for completing the gamemode task will always skew downward, no matter what... Essentially, You are penalized for doing your part to win the match, and you are penalized for playing the gamemode... PGI should just get rid off all gamemodes and only do skirmish if they are going to penalize you for playing the game.

[Horseman]

Jman5, on 20 July 2020 - 08:27 AM, said:

Man, they loosened Matchmaker up so that tier 1 games are now bringing in tier 3 players after just 1 minute of searching. The difference between how it was yesterday and today is really noticeable. Match quality has nosedived.

Also it seems like people in my games are a lot angrier today, but maybe I just got unlucky.

Agreed. Sounds loke most of the salt is either in lower tiers or comes from mixingf a large skill disparity... not surprising tbh.

Nightbird, on 20 July 2020 - 02:27 PM, said:

Once more people get a chance to move to T1/T2 and T4/T5, it can be tightened again

And should.

MeterH1, on 20 July 2020 - 08:21 PM, said:

It's not truly a zero sum...

The sum of increases and decreases across players in the match equals zero. That is the definition of a zero sum system.

MeterH1, on 20 July 2020 - 06:20 PM, said:

This new scoring system is absolutely stupid beyond measure... If as a team, we decide on incursion that the Meds, Heavy's, and Assaults will provide a distraction to all the lights to go destroy the base and we win, every single light who played a major role in the victory will still go down in rank. This is stupidity and mech pilots should not be penalized for playing the gamemode, especially when it is a team effort and plan to play like that. PGI, you really need to rethink how you do the scoring.

That is something that can (and should) be tuned by the match score formula, not PSR formula.

[crazytimes]

Got a few tier 3 matches today after a very short wait. After a weekend of tier 1s, the playstyle is very different. As in got my first ace of spades kind of different.

MeterH1, on 20 July 2020 - 06:20 PM, said:

This new scoring system is absolutely stupid beyond measure... If as a team, we decide on incursion that the Meds, Heavy's, and Assaults will provide a distraction to all the lights to go destroy the base and we win, every single light who played a major role in the victory will still go down in rank. This is stupidity and mech pilots should not be penalized for playing the gamemode, especially when it is a team effort and plan to play like that. PGI, you really need to rethink how you do the scoring.

You're not being penalised. You're just being adjusted to a level where other people also like to go and stand in flashy squares or shoot buildings.

[General Solo]

OneTeamPlayer, on 20 July 2020 - 06:22 AM, said:

I have been watching T1 games where both teams rotate until one is dead with the only difference between their play and T3 play being that in T3 (back in the normal days) players would actually stop or reverse if one pointed out that their rotation was too fast and costing mechs, but in T1 players are too pro to have voice or written comms activated so they pull the two snakes eating each others tails until only one team is left.

T1 play is pathetic, wait times are pathetic, and it's hard AF to drop rank while not breaking TOS or actively hindering one's team.

I want to head back to T3 where i might see variety in a match despite all the other BS yet i still can scarcely drop rank in a match except in my stock Firestarter Ember.

Dude thats just playstyle bias
so what if they rotate if thats what it takes to win
FTW

People dont like.....insert rotation for example but can and is other stuff too, lerms, stealth your name it........
because they get defeated by ...insert rotation for example but can and is other stuff too, lerms, stealth your name it....
because other people are just better at it......insert rotation for example but can and is other stuff too, lerms, stealth your name it....

So no matter how much they goal posts are moved............other people will still be better at it, for reasons they were better in the first place most likely.

So its disliked. That's where a good match maker is supposed to help.

Why we rotate?
Because our opponents often can't handle it, the ....insert rotation for example but can and is other stuff too, lerms, ATM, Firing Line, sniper, srm bomber, stealth your name it....
So we do it because it makes defeating our opponents easier. To win which is the point of the game.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 21 July 2020 - 03:30 AM.

[OneTeamPlayer]

OZHomerOZ, on 21 July 2020 - 03:28 AM, said:

Dude thats just playstyle bias
so what if they rotate if thats what it takes to win
FTW

People dont like.....insert rotation for example but can and is other stuff too, lerms, stealth your name it........
because they get defeated by ...insert rotation for example but can and is other stuff too, lerms, stealth your name it....
because other people are just better at it......insert rotation for example but can and is other stuff too, lerms, stealth your name it....

So no matter how much they goal posts are moved............other people will still be better at it, for reasons they were better in the first place most likely.

So its disliked. That's where a good match maker is supposed to help.

Why we rotate?
Because our opponents often can't handle it, the ....insert rotation for example but can and is other stuff too, lerms, ATM, Firing Line, sniper, srm bomber, stealth your name it....
So we do it because it makes defeating our opponents easier. To win which is the point of the game.

In a sea of dozens of possibilities the group who does the exact same tactic each and every match is the group I want to avoid. It's like playing a fighting game with the guy who only ever wants to play a single fighter and throw low kicks the entire match. Does it work? Probably. Is it "gameplay" .... I guess but after the 5th or so time in a row it's about as fun as itemizing taxes.

I guess players are having the time of their life circling as hard as they can literally match after match.

That ain't me though, champs.

I've never played a game where I had to leave upper tier matches to find variety it's usually the direct opposite.

It's like bizzaro world here.

Then again i should have realized what i was in for when i noticed I could push to T1 by changing my gameplay to completely ignore any concept of team at the preference of individual metrics.

As I've said, T1 has the best individual players in the game. That's why it's distinctly not for me.

[Horseman]

OneTeamPlayer, on 21 July 2020 - 04:59 AM, said:

In a sea of dozens of possibilities the group who does the exact same tactic each and every match is the group I want to avoid. It's like playing a fighting game with the guy who only ever wants to play a single fighter and throw low kicks the entire match. Does it work? Probably. Is it "gameplay" .... I guess but after the 5th or so time in a row it's about as fun as itemizing taxes.

The problem isn't with their approach. The problem is with their opponents not figuring out a viable countermeasure.

[OneTeamPlayer]

Horseman, on 21 July 2020 - 05:04 AM, said:

The problem isn't with their approach. The problem is with their opponents not figuring out a viable countermeasure.

Whatever the problem is, it's player created repetition and it's entirely brain numbing and unenjoyable.

Thankfully there is an incredibly simple solution which i am pursuing over the course of the event while there's still the population to fix the mess I put myself in.

[RRAMIREZ]

When I drop with T3 in HPG/canyon/caustic, I don't know what the game will look globally like...
When I drop with T1 in HPG/canyon/caustic, I know for sure what the game will look globally like...


I choose now to pex mechs, use no consumable and stop rising PSR if possible.

And I regreat that there's only one queue left mixing solo/group/competive/"quick play"...

but it won't prevent me from finding the spot where I can find "my" fun, and it's definitly not in upper tier

[BTGbullseye]

Seems I'm not the only one that is noticing that the T1 players are exclusively NASCARing... I played several games today with and against T1's, all the T1's did was NASCAR or attempt to NASCAR, not a single one tried to stay with the group. I ended up getting left behind 6 times because I was too slow!

I literally don't even get a chance at having a good score because I'm a single Fafnir against half the enemy team all at once.

The T1 obsession with personal stats over team gameplay is quite literally killing the game.

[Reavers]

So I started a day or so before the reset and promptly got ground down in to tier five to the point where I didn't have a bar.

When they put the cap in place that you can only go up one tier after four minutes it did two things for me. One it showed me that I'm not a bottom of the barrel player. I'd say I get up arrows in seventy percent of my matches now. I'm also clearly not elite, I bet i find my happy place in tier 3 or 4. (I'd be interest to know how many matches I play in tier four. My guess would be about 90% of them.)

The match quality went up. Sure I'm part of a few stomps, and have been stomped but I'd say a lot of matches end 12-6 or closer. Those are fun high quality matches and even if we lose I have a good time.

My only complaint would be that I play my matches in tier 4 (probably 90% since I have to wait for almost every match as tier five player) and while I've gone from having no bar to being just over half way full the odds are I'll be waiting four minutes a match for the next 150 matches or so to climb my way out.

That's my only gripe, other then that I'm enjoy the game emensly.

In other news why isn't their an option to add the CB perk to any mech? And why would I buy a package of mechs when I normally only want one?

Edited by Reavers, 21 July 2020 - 09:38 AM.

[Reavers]

MeterH1, on 20 July 2020 - 08:21 PM, said:

It's not truly a zero sum... It has become much more based on a complex formula that actually accounts for winning or losing to determine the range in which you go up or down.. Where in a true zero sum, win/loss would not factor in, but match score alone... However, while we could debate that all day, it does not change the fact that PGI has made it where if you play as a team with a strategy for the gamemode selected, those who are responsible for completing the gamemode task will always skew downward, no matter what... Essentially, You are penalized for doing your part to win the match, and you are penalized for playing the gamemode... PGI should just get rid off all gamemodes and only do skirmish if they are going to penalize you for playing the game.

We played a match where we took the base the other day and all of us got a down arrow for the win. It was the weirdest thing that every happened. I'd prefer not to do it again.

[morosis]

Horseman, on 21 July 2020 - 05:04 AM, said:

The problem isn't with their approach. The problem is with their opponents not figuring out a viable countermeasure.

i cant tell you the number of times someone on my team has called for a counter nascar or the building of a firing line, but half the team doesn't listen and just lemming train to the right anyway, so those of us who do just get slaughtered immediately by the entire enemy team and get a 50 match score.

the problem isn't with the countermeasure, its that nobody cares about whats in the best interest of the team at present.

i'm not sure if everyone is aware, but if a handful of people on your team die early and get a 50 match score, it makes it a lot easier for the guys who survive to get the up arrow for their own psr. similarly, if you are on a team that loses and has one really great player who doubles everyone elses match score, you're all going down except him/her. i have never seen people outright rooting against/conspiring against players on their team until this season.

the match where i finally quit on this season was one where a premade on my own team basically lied on comms to get 4 or 5 of us killed early, then went stealth gauss damage farming from the top of a hill on viridian. they all got the up arrow. i got an 82 match score. it was bullshift the likes of which i have never seen in this game.

again, not all of this is on PGI. the community is responsible for alot of the trash we are seeing lately as well. i'm not saying i dont understand. everyone wants to get good psr, i get it. but we have to accept and understand that we are causing a lot of the bad games everyone is talking about.

imo it all started with the elite groups doing the premade seal clubbing thing after PSR reset. it showed a level of selfishness that really bothered me at the time. like, these are the ambassadors for the game and the community and they straight up teamed up to beat the crap out of the rest of us for their own gain. what the best players do, the other players will follow, and now here we are.

not saying i dont understand. but here we are.

Edited by morosis, 21 July 2020 - 10:53 AM.

[cl4sh]

MeterH1, on 20 July 2020 - 06:20 PM, said:

This new scoring system is absolutely stupid beyond measure... If as a team, we decide on incursion that the Meds, Heavy's, and Assaults will provide a distraction to all the lights to go destroy the base and we win, every single light who played a major role in the victory will still go down in rank. This is stupidity and mech pilots should not be penalized for playing the gamemode, especially when it is a team effort and plan to play like that. PGI, you really need to rethink how you do the scoring.

That's just how it is supposed to be. The people taking the risk and doing the dangerous with will level up. The ones who just rely on their mates don't. Imagine it would be different. You'd be able to make it to T1 without ever fighting other Mechs.

Not exactly "Skill", eh?

[Xaat Xuun]

Reavers, on 21 July 2020 - 09:43 AM, said:

We played a match where we took the base the other day and all of us got a down arrow for the win. It was the weirdest thing that every happened. I'd prefer not to do it again.

I can understand why not wanting to do that again, since the score is pretty much just based on Damage objective, none of the other objectives are worth doing