642 replies to this topic

[Tarl Cabot]

1. Do not worry about "level up". It is less an experience bar now and more of a skill placement based on your Matchscore vs everyone else on that drop... think of it more like Elite, Veteran, Regular, Green and Basic instead of Tiers 1-5...

[Horseman]

Hengest, on 24 July 2020 - 01:15 PM, said:

And one thing, that really, I mean REALLY was in my eyes the greatest "third finger from right" for game balance: Stealth armor. Invisible lites, laser- or MG-spamming the living daylight out of everything... that bright idea broke the game. No offense meant to all the light drivers, but: a heavy drop is - at least for me - some fun. A drop, where there a like 4 lites with invisible mode... just leaves me wondering, why I am there and playing the game.

There's one thing that doesn't quite add up: there is no light mech that can do stealth armor with MG spam - the only stealth-capable light that has ballistic hardpoints is the Pirates' Bane, with a whopping two of them.

[BTGbullseye]

Hengest, on 24 July 2020 - 01:15 PM, said:

when I play LRM-boat in a good team: I rock (damage values around 600+)

If you're only getting 600 damage in a LRM boat, you're NOT rocking it... That's quite low. If you aren't averaging 850+ damage, you're a serious detriment to your team. (I'm a LRM-pro, and have several matches with over 2000 damage in a 70-LRM MCII-2 or MCII-4, and average somewhere around 1200 damage per match)

[Mal Bolge]

Horseman, on 24 July 2020 - 10:51 PM, said:

There's one thing that doesn't quite add up: there is no light mech that can do stealth armor with MG spam - the only stealth-capable light that has ballistic hardpoints is the Pirates' Bane, with a whopping two of them.

Don't you think it's possible he meant, stealth lights, laser lights and mg lights? you know 3 different categories of lights to pester a lone assault? Unless of course nitpicking was the whole point.

[Slothasaurus]

Hengest, on 24 July 2020 - 01:15 PM, said:

Well... I gave it some thought, and observed.
My (admitted, personal) conclusion is:when I play LRM-boat in a good team: I rock (damage values around 600+), in an inexperienced / TIER 4\5 team: I am Lite-bait.
So, yes, TIER was EXCEEDINGLY important for me.
Reason: IMHO a well balanced team takes care of each other, and support each other mutually. No one gets left behind, no one goes off all glory hound. In the low TIERs, there are definitely a helluva lot of players, who don't get that concept, or, in other word, play MW as a solo ego shooters; calling for help, while my assault mech is chewed to pieces by a stealth lite? I get laughed at. Which seriously ticks me off. When I was still in TIER 2, I felt the game to be more of a cooperative game, where each player brings his strengths and other help him/her to negate the weaknesses. TIER 4 / 5 is like a kindergarten, where all the kids a hooting and hollering for attention and "the gifts" all the time.
And one thing, that really, I mean REALLY was in my eyes the greatest "third finger from right" for game balance: Stealth armor. Invisible lites, laser- or MG-spamming the living daylight out of everything... that bright idea broke the game. No offense meant to all the light drivers, but: a heavy drop is - at least for me - some fun. A drop, where there a like 4 lites with invisible mode... just leaves me wondering, why I am there and playing the game.

There are some medium mechs that can do a nice mobile LRM build. With the speed/maneuverability of a medium you can keep up with the team and not get left behind and be food for any roaming wolfpacks. Grab a tag and you can get your own locks. With the speed of a medium and the range of LRMs you can help out almost anywhere. Provide direct LOS fire support on mechs in the open or toss missiles halfway across the map while running to location to help support.

[martian]

Hengest, on 24 July 2020 - 01:15 PM, said:

Well... I gave it some thought, and observed.
My (admitted, personal) conclusion is:when I play LRM-boat in a good team: I rock (damage values around 600+), in an inexperienced / TIER 4\5 team: I am Lite-bait.
So, yes, TIER was EXCEEDINGLY important for me.

If I can tell you something, the higher up Tiers you move, the more skilled enemy pilots of Light 'Mechs are.

There are games in Tiers 3 and 2 (not to talk about Tier 1) that are full of well-piloted ECM/Stealth armor-equipped Lights and fast Mediums. Lots of ECM in general and sometimes lots of AMS-carrying 'Mechs - sometimes up to four AMS on one 'Mech that can totally neutralize your LRM-boat.

Games are faster, more aggressive and more fluid.

I would like to suggest you that perhaps you should train more with direct-fire weapons (Autocannons, Gauss Rifles, Lasers, PPCs). And if you really like missiles, more MRMs and SRMs. And if you really wish to use guided missiles, then use ATMs, not LRMs.

Hengest, on 23 July 2020 - 12:01 PM, said:

Talking about frustration: after the PSR-reset the game, which I have been playing for years now, is nothing but accumulating frustration. I get victories (yaaayyyy) but LOOSE PSR, I accumulate damage but: LOOSE PSR; I get assists a -plenty, but: LOOSE PSR... I was a TIER 2 player, and it took me long to get there, but now: hello TIER 4. And dropping.

The negative change of your PSR means that you were not as good as other members of your team and the best enemy players.

But do not take it personally. I have had some relatively good games and yet my PSR went down even on win, simply because other players on our side and one or two enemies had better scores. So I know how you feel.

Hengest, on 23 July 2020 - 12:01 PM, said:

So... I am on the brink of selling my account and getting a new hobby.

Please do not talk about selling your account, since this is forbidden:

Quote

ACCOUNT TRADING AND SELLING

• The trading or selling of MechWarrior Online accounts is forbidden.
  
• This includes both advertising your account for sale or trade or advertising that you are looking for an account to purchase.
  
• If a player is found to have participated in such actions, their MWO account and their access to PGI services will be permanently suspended.

Summary:
Get rid of LRMs and there is a good possibility that you will move up. Think, how you can improve your playstyle. Keep LRMs and do not be surprised if you stay in Tier 4 or 5.

This just my personal opinion, so you do not have to agree with me.

[Tarl Cabot]

Hengest, on 24 July 2020 - 01:15 PM, said:

Well... I gave it some thought, and observed.

My (admitted, personal) conclusion is:when I play LRM-boat in a good team: I rock (damage values around 600+), in an inexperienced / TIER 4\5 team: I am Lite-bait.

So, yes, TIER was EXCEEDINGLY important for me.

Snip

Which seriously ticks me off. When I was still in TIER 2, I felt the game to be more of a cooperative game, where each player brings his strengths and other help him/her to negate the weaknesses. TIER 4 / 5 is like a kindergarten, where all the kids a hooting and hollering for attention and "the gifts" all the time.

snip

Prior PSR, it was an experience bar with a low common denominator. It was near impossible to drop in tier, while possible to reach Tier 1, even for a low MS player, simply by brute force via playing tons of games. Avg 171 MS 0.83 W/L ratio getting there after 25K games.

Pre-PSR Tier 4-5 were relatively new players with few games under their belts, or long-time players with very low avg MS. With the NEW PSR, players with low avg MS should tend to congregate with others within other vets along the same vein. And with your current MS avg and the new PSR you would simply be shark chum to Tier 1 now. Find a happy medium. Now the Tiers will likely present different degrees of difficulties, especially after players have dropped several hundred games to spread out through the tiers.

I will say this though, prior to PSR reset, I also enjoyed Tier 2 (alt) moreso than I did Tier 1 (main), even during that short period of time the Soup Queue went live but before PSR reset.

[Fractis Zero]

If you are using LRMs. I would suggest using a Hunchback 4J with 2 LRM 10s 4 ER ML and a tag. You will be fast enough to keep up with the NASCAR. You will be able to get your own locks and dumbfire if you don’t. The MLs allow you to have some direct fire weapons if someone gets in your minimum range. The build is hot enough to teach heat management as well. If you stand beside an assault chances are you won’t even be shot.

[SharDar]

I'm in the basement of Tier 5, and I feel like the current system is stacked against me.

1) I like to play with people from higher tiers. That's how you get better. But my match score or how it affects my PSR should be interpreted against my current PSR, not as a competition with those from higher tiers. Many sports provide a system, like handicaps, that allow differently skilled players to complete with each other. As long as the total skill rating on both teams is close, it should produce good matches.

2) I feel like I'm punished for playing a light mech. Do we really expect my Piranha to do as much damage as a Fafnir or Atlas? I hope not, at least not in the lower tiers. As a light mech, I'm supposed to scout, squirrel, and capture: but you don't get any points for doing these things. It's all biased towards damage and kills, which punishes light mechs. If I spend half of the match running around capping, I don't do as much damage. If I run to the center to cap in domination, I'm more likely to get killed. Is it any wonder that the wait time for lights is almost always the shortest?

3) LRMs make it SO much easier to rack up damage and kills. Perhaps there should be a difficulty factor applied to lock-on weapons that doesn't make that damage and kills the equivalent of doing the same with non-lock-on weapons. Range seems like it should be factored in too. When I have midrange and short range weapons, I have to expose myself to damage to do damage. That means I'm more likely to be killed and be out of the game sooner. Surely it takes more skill to pilot a light mech with short range weapons than a LRM boat.

Thanks for listening.

[Sawk]

ok too help someone.
SharDar i have seen a Piranha, do as much damage as a fafnir, and i have a wing, (PAIR) if not clan, of Piranhas , kill 2 folks with damage in 500 to 600 range, truth of matter is i can take out an artic cheetah that has a alpha for 41 points.
PLEASe stop building Boats, learn to use your speed, and JETS if have them, get a buddy to play with or find a group, clan or unit, i have your next build for you, ebon jag clan mech, put to 2 large lazers, and 3 clan er med lazers on it, fill with heat sinks, if heat is ok for you put a target computer on it, or you can go with 7 or 8 med pulse, and use a 2 botton mouse, hope to see you when you hit tier 3 or above.

Sawk

[SharDar]

Sawk, on 25 July 2020 - 01:41 PM, said:

ok too help someone.
SharDar i have seen a Piranha, do as much damage as a fafnir, and i have a wing, (PAIR) if not clan, of Piranhas , kill 2 folks with damage in 500 to 600 range, truth of matter is i can take out an artic cheetah that has a alpha for 41 points.
PLEASe stop building Boats, learn to use your speed, and JETS if have them, get a buddy to play with or find a group, clan or unit, i have your next build for you, ebon jag clan mech, put to 2 large lazers, and 3 clan er med lazers on it, fill with heat sinks, if heat is ok for you put a target computer on it, or you can go with 7 or 8 med pulse, and use a 2 botton mouse, hope to see you when you hit tier 3 or above.

Sawk

Yes, we have all seen Piranhas do amazing damage. What was their tier? Can they do it as consistently as in an Assualt Mech? Compare the leaderboard for Assaults and Lights. You will see 2 light mech pilots with an average match score of 500 or higher and 24 assault mech pilots with an average match score of 500 or higher. Likewise, there are 211 assault pilots with an average match score of 400 or higher, and only 36 light pilots. This is the TOP of the leaderboard, I'm guessing the disparity grows even greater as you look farther down. This shows that there is a measurable difference in outcomes based on your mech's weight class.

Also, I don't drive missile boats. They're boring. I don't know what gave you the idea that I do.

Edited by SharDar, 25 July 2020 - 02:36 PM.

[Laser Kiwi]

Hengest, on 23 July 2020 - 12:01 PM, said:

I am a LuRMer... I like to call it "support mech driver", though... I can relate to the above post, but: It is hard to get kills in an LRM-mech. My observation: I soften the opponent up, and some light-mech-driver gets the kill-points. Which, for me, is pretty frustrating.
Talking about frustration: after the PSR-reset the game, which I have been playing for years now, is nothing but accumulating frustration. I get victories (yaaayyyy) but LOOSE PSR, I accumulate damage but: LOOSE PSR; I get assists a -plenty, but: LOOSE PSR... I was a TIER 2 player, and it took me long to get there, but now: hello TIER 4. And dropping. So... I am on the brink of selling my account and getting a new hobby. Thank you, Piranha-bright-spark for ruining the game.

OMG, for crying out loud. THE POINT OF THE RESET IS TO PUT PEOPLE IN THEIR SKILL LEVEL.

Basically the new tier system is saying, you aren't very good. Which is cool, because hopefully you'll be pitted against other people who aren't that great, and that's also cool, and ultimately good for you because you don't DESERVE to be in a high tier but at a lower tier maybe you will shine through and lock missiles like the greatest lock on missile player ever, locking on and firing missiles like no one has locked on and fired missiles before. Yes?

[Laser Kiwi]

SharDar, on 25 July 2020 - 02:34 PM, said:

Yes, we have all seen Piranhas do amazing damage. What was their tier? Can they do it as consistently as in an Assualt Mech? Compare the leaderboard for Assaults and Lights. You will see 2 light mech pilots with an average match score of 500 or higher and 24 assault mech pilots with an average match score of 500 or higher. Likewise, there are 211 assault pilots with an average match score of 400 or higher, and only 36 light pilots. This is the TOP of the leaderboard, I'm guessing the disparity grows even greater as you look farther down. This shows that there is a measurable difference in outcomes based on your mech's weight class.

Also, I don't drive missile boats. They're boring. I don't know what gave you the idea that I do.

Well piranhas are glass cannons, if you run in a straight line at a 6 med pulse laser medium, its going to get messy for you very quickly. Most piranha pilots lose their patience, a better tip is, don't scout, show patience, realise you are a priority target unlike most lights, play a late game, wait until enemy assaults are either isolated or trading heavily with another assault and or heavy. If you think you can deadzone a mad cat 2b by being close to it for example, well you can't, they can shoot at their feet, pick your targets.

Also if you are truly in tier 5, even though your profile doesn't show it, if you are playing lights, the lack of awareness in tier 5 should be giving you an almost free range of good performances, if not then you need to spend more time flanking and making sure your engine is maxed out. Max speed, max weapons max torso and leg armour (such as it is). If you are not going at max speed then the HSR on the piranha isn't exactly broken like say a commando and you don't have the armour of a commando, any piranha wondering around at 97 kph for example is dead meat, 95% of the time.

[SharDar]

Wesleytron, on 25 July 2020 - 02:53 PM, said:

Well piranhas are glass cannons, if you run in a straight line at a 6 med pulse laser medium, its going to get messy for you very quickly. Most piranha pilots lose their patience, a better tip is, don't scout, show patience, realise you are a priority target unlike most lights, play a late game, wait until enemy assaults are either isolated or trading heavily with another assault and or heavy. If you think you can deadzone a mad cat 2b by being close to it for example, well you can't, they can shoot at their feet, pick your targets.

Also if you are truly in tier 5, even though your profile doesn't show it, if you are playing lights, the lack of awareness in tier 5 should be giving you an almost free range of good performances, if not then you need to spend more time flanking and making sure your engine is maxed out. Max speed, max weapons max torso and leg armour (such as it is). If you are not going at max speed then the HSR on the piranha isn't exactly broken like say a commando and you don't have the armour of a commando, any piranha wondering around at 97 kph for example is dead meat, 95% of the time.

What about what I posted about the stats on the leaderboard? Let's not focus on one mech, one pilot, or what might happen in a match. My point is that there is a disparity in average match score between light mechs and assault mechs. I don't think most people would be surprised by that. I'm suggesting that the PSR factor in the weight class so that light mechs are not unduly punished for their choice of mech.

[martian]

SharDar, on 25 July 2020 - 01:16 PM, said:

I'm in the basement of Tier 5, and I feel like the current system is stacked against me.

1) I like to play with people from higher tiers. That's how you get better. But my match score or how it affects my PSR should be interpreted against my current PSR, not as a competition with those from higher tiers. Many sports provide a system, like handicaps, that allow differently skilled players to complete with each other. As long as the total skill rating on both teams is close, it should produce good matches.

Well, all players had their PSR reset to mid-Tier 3 three weeks ago. Some players have moved to Tier 1, while you moved to Tier 5.

So, is not now the right moment for you to contemplate if you are doing something wrong? Nothing personal.

SharDar, on 25 July 2020 - 01:16 PM, said:

2) I feel like I'm punished for playing a light mech. Do we really expect my Piranha to do as much damage as a Fafnir or Atlas? I hope not, at least not in the lower tiers. As a light mech, I'm supposed to scout, squirrel, and capture: but you don't get any points for doing these things. It's all biased towards damage and kills, which punishes light mechs. If I spend half of the match running around capping, I don't do as much damage. If I run to the center to cap in domination, I'm more likely to get killed. Is it any wonder that the wait time for lights is almost always the shortest?

There are some tricks how to boost your Match Score if you are piloting a light 'Mech:

1) Be active. Do not follow heavies and assaults around the battlefield. The greatest advantage of light Mechs is their mobility. Use your speed and jump jets (if equipped) to find the enemy team, to spot, to scout and to flank. All these thing are rewarded with MS points. However, remember that your primary tools for MS points are your weapons.

2) Attack enemy 'Mechs. Backstab them, harass them - especially if they are alone or damaged. Concentrate on their vulnerable spots (rear torso armor, damaged sections are shown in red). You can join forces with other friendly light 'Mechs too.

3) Use UAVs. UAV detection can boost your MS, especially if you launch it in the enemy midst.

4) Use Artillery Strikes. Remember that if the enemy team is shaken and in disarray, you will have a better opportunity to get some kills and thus earn some MS points. Plus, it is fun.

5) Use UAVs and Artillery Strikes. Well placed UAV or artillery strike can significantly contribute to your team's victory and thus to the MS victory bonus.

6) Capturing bases in Conquest. You do not have to capture every single base - just make sure that your team will not lose on points. That's all.
Time spent capping means less time when you are dealing damage. Sure, you get some MS points for capping, but as you have noticed, direct damage dealing pays better.

7) Circle in Domination. Stay there 10-15 seconds until your lancemates (and the rest of your team) arrive. After that you can leave the circle and concentrate on killing enemy 'Mechs.

This is just a brief summary of things that I would recommend and I attempt to adhere. This forum has many excellent light 'Mech pilots and they will give you a better and more detailed advice.

SharDar, on 25 July 2020 - 01:16 PM, said:

3) LRMs make it SO much easier to rack up damage and kills. Perhaps there should be a difficulty factor applied to lock-on weapons that doesn't make that damage and kills the equivalent of doing the same with non-lock-on weapons. Range seems like it should be factored in too. When I have midrange and short range weapons, I have to expose myself to damage to do damage. That means I'm more likely to be killed and be out of the game sooner. Surely it takes more skill to pilot a light mech with short range weapons than a LRM boat.

If LRMs are a problem, solutions are not hard to find:

1) Use AMS/LAMS. All 'Mechs can carry one AMS. Some 'Mechs can carry two or three AMS. There are even 'Mechs that can be equipped with four AMS.

2) Use ECM. You will be more difficult target for enemy LRM-boats.

3) Have some cover handy (building, rocks) should you need it.

4) Do not attempt to brawl in the first minute of the game. Just wait until you know who is where and until the right opportunity presents itself. Many teams lose cohesion as the game progresses.

[BTGbullseye]

Lockheed_, on 25 July 2020 - 05:13 AM, said:

Yeah that's what I thought too. I play LRM boats once every too months maybe and I get to 1k pretty easily.
How are you dealing with those pesky lights in a lurming MCII? I assume that you are not instantly dying to them, when you rack up 2k dmg?

2x-4x MPL, and Clan Light Active Probe. I can hit virtually anything in my line of sight, and even lights at point-blank get a LOT of damage. Helps that I have a "heavy" back armor of around 12 for my torsos, so they can't MG-spam me in the back like they can on all the meta builds.

[Horseman]

Mal Nilsum, on 25 July 2020 - 07:04 AM, said:

Don't you think it's possible he meant, stealth lights, laser lights and mg lights?

Of course, but that is not what he wrote.

Quote

you know 3 different categories of lights to pester a lone assault?

Who, for f***s sake, shouldn't be alone and unsupported in the first place.

Quote

Unless of course nitpicking was the whole point.

No, illustrating that his complaint displays poor awareness of the mechs he's ACTUALLY dying to. Which indicates a general issue with his tactical awareness.

Sawk, on 25 July 2020 - 01:41 PM, said:

ok too help someone.
SharDar i have seen a Piranha, do as much damage as a fafnir, and i have a wing, (PAIR) if not clan, of Piranhas , kill 2 folks with damage in 500 to 600 range, truth of matter is i can take out an artic cheetah that has a alpha for 41 points.
PLEASe stop building Boats, learn to use your speed, and JETS if have them, get a buddy to play with or find a group, clan or unit, i have your next build for you, ebon jag clan mech, put to 2 large lazers, and 3 clan er med lazers on it, fill with heat sinks, if heat is ok for you put a target computer on it, or you can go with 7 or 8 med pulse, and use a 2 botton mouse, hope to see you when you hit tier 3 or above.
Sawk

Building boats is not the problem, running them alone and unsupported is.

[Alreech]

SharDar, on 25 July 2020 - 01:16 PM, said:

As a light mech, I'm supposed to scout, squirrel, and capture: but you don't get any points for doing these things. It's all biased towards damage and kills, which punishes light mechs.

You are right, so change your style of play to damage and kills.

Get a fast medium or heavy Mech with lot's of missle hardpoints (and ECM if posible), boat SRMs and go for kills.
Gang up with other fast Mechs, but don't bother to let them die alone if the situation gets worse.
Relocate, pick out damaged enemys.

To be a good player you have to have a positive K/D, that means you have to kill at least one enemy per game, regardless if you win or lose that match.
Games won by capturing while enemys left alive don't help you much to boost your K/D.

Scouting & Capturing don't realy have a place in quickplay, and modes like Assault, Conquest & Incursion should be removed from Quickplay like Escort was removed.

Quote

If I spend half of the match running around capping, I don't do as much damage. If I run to the center to cap in domination, I'm more likely to get killed. Is it any wonder that the wait time for lights is almost always the shortest?

Don't go capping, go killing.
The team that splits up in conquest to capture gets killed by teams that stay together and form a mob.
Even if that team doesn't win the match (most time there is plenty of minutes left to capture after the last kill) the damage and kills bosts your K/D.

In the worst case a Domination match is getting lost in the first minute because only the enemy team is capping. So what?
The only effect is that you have to spawn with a new team in a new match.

[CSbrunton]

appreciate your work with the PSR, but think that when piloting lights that their numbers should be padded or adjusted for how much less damage lights can do compared to assaults.

Edited by CSbrunton, 26 July 2020 - 05:51 AM.

[DevinMace]

I think people should realize that there does need to be some balancing between lights-assaults. If people have looked at Jarls list which is pretty solid it takes mech size or tonnage into consideration when calculating its match score. I really think that would be a good thing in game as well.

Can people do as well in a Piranha/flea as they can in a Assault yes they can, but I would also say that those people are likely higher in tier then those they are playing against and on Average more tonnage at equal tier will have more match score per tonnage.