642 replies to this topic

[Spare Knight]

I don't get the complaining about the Tier level. I was Tier 1 and now I am Tier 3 and hope to stay there. Life is much better now.

Folks, stop thinking it is punishment. It simply puts you where you belong. It's a good thing.

[martian]

OneTeamPlayer, on 28 July 2020 - 07:50 AM, said:

Also known as the Ostrich maneuver.

Very old relaxation method.

You are no longer being stressed every time you log into the game or every time you post something.

You just play the game without caring about your PSR/Tier and you trust Russ Bullock and Paul Inouye that everything will be all right.

[Alreech]

selfish shellfish, on 28 July 2020 - 05:38 AM, said:

The concept of a good matchmaker is that everyone plays NORMALLY and the system monitors player performance in order to try and make good matches. The moment you show players their PSR by tying it into a Tier bar they start to try and increase it.

The concept of a good matchmaker is creating well balanced teams with little waiting time between the matches.
Monitoring players performance is not part of the matchmaker, but player tier is.

The MWO Matchmaker for Quickplay has to handle:

• Waiting time (not to high)
  
• Player tier ( max 1 tier difference)
  
• Mech class (number of classes should be equal for each team)
  
• Groups per team (number of group should be equal for each team)

Those 4 criterias are obviously too much, and some are more or less useless (difference between a 55 ton "medium Mech" and a 60 ton "heavy Mech" realy a difference ? 60 ton heavy equal to a 75 ton heavy?...).

Some things that are bad for the match quality (wrong mech for the map, pre-match coordination of mechs only in premades, disbanding team after each match, no clear attacker / defender roles for the teams, ect...) are even no criteria in the matchmaker.

PGI can change Tier calculation, Tier separation and Group Size from 2-4 how they like, it won't change anything on those 4 criterias and the basic problem of too much criterias.

It won't change also nothing of the non-match maker related causes for bad match quality.

Edited by Alreech, 28 July 2020 - 11:42 AM.

[GARION26]

I've thought a way to collapse the number of criteria is to just give people in a group some bonus to their PSR in terms of the matchmaking calculation. Lets say for example 1/2 tier for a group of four players something less for smaller groups.
4 Cadets in a group are probably a net negative for a team, whereas 2 top players in a group is probably much more impactful then 4 tier 3 in a group. Just give them a bonus to their PSR in terms of matchmaker and then you get

Wait time (tight criteria on the below items for 1 minute, loosening after that in incremential steps)
PSR matching
Tonnage slots

In descending order of priority possibly. That might matchmaking easier.

[Tarl Cabot]

Big-G, on 28 July 2020 - 04:00 AM, said:

So how many of you have tried to make any meaningful PSR gain using lights or light mediums? Tell my about it... just because you can't field as much firepower, you are automatically at a disadvantage, even with taking out 1/3 of the opfor...

• Your Win/Loss Ratio this month is approximately what you had been averaging prior to the Soup Queue/PSR reset
  
• Your avg MS is actually slightly higher (217) than your previous avg MS (189).
  
• And yes, now instead of being compared to a static PSR threshold, dependent on W/L, you are now being compared to everyone else, and not just your team with a slight bump if it is a win.
  
• Dropping or staying static in a Tier also means you are less likely to be grouped with/against players whose MS are double yours MS scores.
  
• If the PSR reset had been done with a limited seeding, ie into Tier 2-4 instead of dumping everyone into Tier 3, as well as starting Cadets in Tier 3, things may not have been as rough, the negative perception of down arrow even on a win with what would have been an okay match score, but then that PSR setup was fraked up anyhow.
  
• Also PGI Soup queue is too broad, ie should be dropped to max 3 players and a 1/weight class restriction. Right now groups who bring the weight can field a max of 2*100 tons assaults + other class.

Quote

Just as a reminder, the previous PSR setup

Player LOSES:
Match Score: 0-100 goes down in PSR by -2
Match Score: 101-250 goes down in PSR by -1
Match Score: 251-400 does not move.
Match Score: 401+ goes up in PSR by +1

Player WINS:
Match Score: 0-100 does not move.
Match Score: 101-250 goes up in PSR by +1
Match Score: 251-400 goes up in PSR by +3
Match Score: 401+ goes up in PSR by +5

Quote

2-player groups: Min Tonnage 40, Max Tonnage 200 - max 2*100 tons
3-player groups: Min Tonnage 80, Max Tonnage 255 - 3*80 tons or 2*100 tons + 55 ton
4-player groups: Min Tonnage 120, Max Tonnage 280 - max 2*100 tons + 2 others classes (80tons left)

[Big-G]

Z Paradox, on 28 July 2020 - 06:55 AM, said:

Spoiler

https://i.ibb.co/N1v...20-03-33-00.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/KsW...20-05-18-07.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/tbV...20-15-50-56.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/mzv...20-20-16-41.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/1vY...20-03-01-44.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/DGg...20-20-56-44.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/kMZ...20-02-39-00.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/09y...20-01-28-00.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/YcX...20-04-54-14.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/9H5...19-22-40-43.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/LYF...19-22-02-43.jpg

Interesting... not one pic of your PSR movement LOL...
So not sure what contribution you were making

[Z Paradox]

Big-G, on 28 July 2020 - 10:09 PM, said:

Interesting... not one pic of your PSR movement LOL...
So not sure what contribution you were making

lol
yes there is one https://i.ibb.co/mzv...20-20-16-41.jpg

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Big-G, If you can't determine the PSR movement from Z Paradox' screenshots, we can't help you.
I must add though, the X-5 and the Phoenix Hawk are not lights, Z! ;-P

[Z Paradox]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 29 July 2020 - 06:16 AM, said:

Big-G, If you can't determine the PSR movement from Z Paradox' screenshots, we can't help you.
I must add though, the X-5 and the Phoenix Hawk are not lights, Z! ;-P

Big-G, on 28 July 2020 - 04:00 AM, said:

So how many of you have tried to make any meaningful PSR gain using lights or light mediums? Tell my about it... just because you can't field as much firepower, you are automatically at a disadvantage, even with taking out 1/3 of the opfor...

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Big-G, on 28 July 2020 - 04:00 AM, said:

So how many of you have tried to make any meaningful PSR gain using lights or light mediums? Tell my about it... just because you can't field as much firepower, you are automatically at a disadvantage, even with taking out 1/3 of the opfor...

Learn to Flea/Grinner/Vulcan....

Seriously though....I IV’ed (mrm’ed) my way into tier 1....however, once I got there and the matchmaker tightened the matches got tougher...and speed became more important. Short range/short duration laser vomit on a quick mech is easy to be consistent in
if you stay aggressive without doing dumb things. I can still do 800+ in a good match and it’s rare to have a stinker (less than 300)....so, you can be consistently productive (green arrow) in those kind of mechs and I maxed tier 1 because of them.

[Skudski]

The way I see this, resetting everyone to the same tier has been pretty good! Its made for much more interesting matches - having been in tier 1 for ages, all the matches were the same. You knew where everyone was going, you knew the tactics and if anyone did different they would get isolated.

Its safe to say I've had the most fun for years recently playing in these matches where the abilities are almost completely mixed. The beginners get to learn from experienced mech pilots and the new unpredictability level for better players is great - sometimes frustrating, but overall a better experience.

I would be happy simplifying this system and just making sure the worst players don't play with the best - and that's it. right now, and for the next couple of months, that will probably be the case. But I am worried after that its going to be the same old boring tactics for the better players and the not so great players will be amongst themselves with no one to learn from

[50 50]

Couple more weeks on, I'm curious to see what the graph looks like now.

[Sawk]

LOL it seem some folks can see what is really going on, being a good shot, placing your self for the shot, having an place to run away to if need be, getting the assist, getting folks to chase you, hunting down those really good pilots.
Winning, getting kills, or the 400 damage in the old system means nothing, ZERO, the above stuff means nothing, ZERO, helping your teams stay together, use a firing line means nothing ,ZERO, stop helping people is my MOTTO now, i do just enough to get my match score up that is like 24 items guys, [redacted]
The Power of The Dark side : ) SAWK

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 30 July 2020 - 09:26 PM.

[Horseman]

Sawk, on 29 July 2020 - 03:56 PM, said:

LOL it seem some folks can see what is really going on, being a good shot, placing your self for the shot, having an place to run away to if need be, getting the assist, getting folks to chase you, hunting down those really good pilots.
Winning, getting kills, or the 400 damage in the old system means nothing, ZERO, the above stuff means nothing, ZERO, helping your teams stay together, use a firing line means nothing ,ZERO, stop helping people is my MOTTO now, i do just enough to get my match score up that is like 24 items guys,
The Power of The Dark side : ) SAWK

At 0.99 WLR, 0.7 KDR and 192 average score since the reset, that approach clearly isn't working out as well as you think it does.

[crazytimes]

Sawk, on 29 July 2020 - 03:56 PM, said:

LOL it seem some folks can see what is really going on, being a good shot, placing your self for the shot, having an place to run away to if need be, getting the assist, getting folks to chase you, hunting down those really good pilots.
Winning, getting kills, or the 400 damage in the old system means nothing, ZERO, the above stuff means nothing, ZERO, helping your teams stay together, use a firing line means nothing ,ZERO, stop helping people is my MOTTO now, i do just enough to get my match score up that is like 24 items guys, [redacted]
The Power of The Dark side : ) SAWK

For someone towards the bottom end of the skill curve, how would you say that is working out for you?

As much as PSR is an individual thing- I play the game for fun. I have more fun when I am playing in a similar skill bracket, but it is still ultimately for fun. That means doing some simple things that help me and help the team, like the ocassional UAV, dropping enemy UAVs, some cheeky strikes and helping with ECM and AMS where appropiate.

If you want to be a salty tool, that's cool... but why are you playing? It's not because you're good, and it's not because you enjoy team work...

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 30 July 2020 - 09:16 PM.

[Spare Knight]

Sawk, on 29 July 2020 - 03:56 PM, said:

LOL it seem some folks can see what is really going on, being a good shot, placing your self for the shot, having an place to run away to if need be, getting the assist, getting folks to chase you, hunting down those really good pilots.
Winning, getting kills, or the 400 damage in the old system means nothing, ZERO, the above stuff means nothing, ZERO, helping your teams stay together, use a firing line means nothing ,ZERO, stop helping people is my MOTTO now, i do just enough to get my match score up that is like 24 items guys, [redacted]
The Power of The Dark side : ) SAWK

Lockheed_, on 29 July 2020 - 05:25 PM, said:

To add on to what Sawk said:
why would I help my team to win? When I enable my team mates they might deal more dmg than me, to the point where I get ranked down. Why put up a UAV in a light when I help my teams missile boats to deal loads of dmg and it just raises the bar for myself. I'd rather use tactical strike instead and deal dmg myself.

I fully understand where you are coming from. If that is what it takes for you to rank up, then that is what you have to do.

On the other hand, why do you feel the need to rank up, when things will only get more competitive when you do. Why can't you just stay in the rank you are in and have better matched games (once the PSR settles of course)? If you only do 200 Average Match Score, what do you think things are going to be like if you could get to Tier 1? Do you think your score is going to improve?

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 30 July 2020 - 09:16 PM.

[Spare Knight]

Sawk, on 29 July 2020 - 03:56 PM, said:

LOL it seem some folks can see what is really going on, being a good shot, placing your self for the shot, having an place to run away to if need be, getting the assist, getting folks to chase you, hunting down those really good pilots.
Winning, getting kills, or the 400 damage in the old system means nothing, ZERO, the above stuff means nothing, ZERO, helping your teams stay together, use a firing line means nothing ,ZERO, stop helping people is my MOTTO now, i do just enough to get my match score up that is like 24 items guys, [redacted]
The Power of The Dark side : ) SAWK

By the way, team damage really puts the hurt on your match score.

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 30 July 2020 - 09:17 PM.

[GARION26]

Lockheed_, on 29 July 2020 - 05:25 PM, said:

To add on to what Sawk said:
why would I help my team to win? When I enable my team mates they might deal more dmg than me, to the point where I get ranked down. Why put up a UAV in a light when I help my teams missile boats to deal loads of dmg and it just raises the bar for myself. I'd rather use tactical strike instead and deal dmg myself.

I think if you'd rather get the loss but be more likely to get a PSR increase then your approach makes sense.
I'd rather win the games and don't care where my PSR rating is - except that I know a lower PSR will give me opponents more at my (low) skill level. I'd rather not be playing against players better then me while losing disproportionately.

But everyone's goals are different I understand. It just seems odd to worry to me to worry more about the PSR displayed on the mechbay screen then winning or losing the games and playing against opponents of similar skill.

Edited by GARION26, 30 July 2020 - 07:54 AM.

[martian]

Sawk, on 29 July 2020 - 03:56 PM, said:

[redacted]

Team kills and team damage can seriously reduce your Match Score and thus your PSR and in the long-term perspective move you to a lower Tier.

Check this screen capture, please:



That Atlas pilot probably did exactly what you do - he damaged other friendly 'Mechs (or perhaps team killed somebody) so much that he actually reduced his MS to zero. I guess that without all that team damage his score would probably be approximately 100-110 or so.

Sure, he would be left with the red arrow still, but his PSR movement downwards would be less steep, since his MS would be better than MS of 6-7 other players..

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 30 July 2020 - 09:19 PM.

[chevy42083]

Voice of Kerensky, on 15 July 2020 - 07:37 PM, said:

I do not know when exactly the rule for different levels + 1 / -1 was introduced, but yesterday I (level 3) met a cadet two or three times in battle. Once on my team, once on the opposing team.
I also wonder if the matchmaker will be trained to select opposing teams taking into account the tonnage of the mechs?
I can post a lot of screenshots when one of the teams had a significant advantage in assault mechs.
The brightest battle was, on the Grim Plexus, in skirmish or domination mode, when my team had 1 assault mech (Warhammer IIC), and the enemy team had 9 or 10. The battle ended very quickly, its result, I think, is obvious to everyone.

EDIT: Sorry, this was covered, didn't realize how early in the thread i was.

Cadets start in T3... right? So yeah, you'll see any new players.

Balancing by tonnage is a horrible plan, as tonnage does NOT = strength. Its been shown over and over that a good pilot in a light can tear apart heavier mechs.
In an extreme example, you'd put a bunch of cadets in heavy/assaults against a bunch of amazing pilots in lights/mediums.... and the lighter tonnage mechs will SHRED the less experienced pilots who can't maneuver/aim well enough.
As a counter... I've been on teams that had no lights... and couldn't get into the center beacon NEARLY fast enough. Or had only 1 or 2 lights, which made capping multiple points very difficult. Simply put... match the tonnage equal, or evenly distributed, in order to have equal game play chances (exaggerated by various game modes to boot)

Edited by chevy42083, 30 July 2020 - 09:33 AM.