42 replies to this topic

[MrMadguy]

Maps. Half of them are just bad. I really would want to play this game. But when more I play, more some sort of "force unpopular maps" system starts to kick in - more it kills my fun. And at some point it kills my desire to play this game enough for me to just hit Alt+F4 and stop playing.

[martian]

MrMadguy, on 25 July 2020 - 07:35 AM, said:

Maps. Half of them are just bad. I really would want to play this game. But when more I play, more some sort of "force unpopular maps" system starts to kick in - more it kills my fun. And at some point it kills my desire to play this game enough for me to just hit Alt+F4 and stop playing.

Yeah.

PGI has never co-operated with the MWO community, neither on design or modification of existing maps nor taking offers on community-produced maps.

[JediPanther]

The maps work great in skirmish mode only when you can get the hive mind to do some thing different. In this Alpine was my favorite map because of so many ways you could play it to fight or counter fight H 10. I once had a team go into the 11-12 areas and won.

Maps as played now suck a lot. I wish I still had the old physical pc gamer issue about mwo back from the day as it explained how pgi designed maps and it was basically sumed up as this: "we want the slowest moving mech to fight within 30 seconds of a match." It had a map of canyon network and went into a lot of details.

Pgi long ago proved they don't give a dam about giving any person control over any thing in mwo. Look up the game going to steam and all the posts about people wanting to make content (for free) in the work shop from years ago. As long as pgi has the ip no one will make anything for mwo.

As for mw5 well you can read that fubar if you want.

[Nesutizale]

It would be quite interesting if PGI has heatmaps for the maps. Seeing where people go most, where they gather and so on could realy help in future map creations or to just make the current maps better.

For example I welcome the changes to the winter-Canyon map with some more cover and ways to go up. Wonder what made the changes. Did they go by data or just guts?

[Valdarion Silarius]

MrMadguy, on 25 July 2020 - 07:35 AM, said:

Maps. Half of them are just bad. I really would want to play this game. But when more I play, more some sort of "force unpopular maps" system starts to kick in - more it kills my fun. And at some point it kills my desire to play this game enough for me to just hit Alt+F4 and stop playing.

The only problem I have with most maps are invisible walls. I think most of the map designs are decent but they definitely need polish. It's especially troubling with mechs that rely on peak and cover in order to be effective.

[Tarl Cabot]

Nesutizale, on 25 July 2020 - 03:39 PM, said:

It would be quite interesting if PGI has heatmaps for the maps. Seeing where people go most, where they gather and so on could realy help in future map creations or to just make the current maps better.

For example I welcome the changes to the winter-Canyon map with some more cover and ways to go up. Wonder what made the changes. Did they go by data or just guts?

They used to have Heatmaps from 2013 to 2015, showing movement, kills (mech standing when it got kill shot) and deaths (where a mech died)

https://mwomercs.com...76324-heatmaps/

https://mwomercs.com...c/img/heatmaps/

Deaiths Crimson Strait 2015 8th week and 3rd day




And at https://mwo.gamepedi...ior_Online_Wiki click on the name of the map to show default heatmaps (travel,kills,death for those listed) for those listed. Some maps do not have heatmaps since they came after PGI stopped generating them.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 25 July 2020 - 06:30 PM.

[Nesutizale]

Oh nice. Would be interesting to see how or if they would be different today then 5 years ago.

Also about the image...who are the two guys that died in the very low left corner. Seriously that isn't even close to where people spawn, let alone where battles happen and yet there where found and killed there. You can run but you can't hide

[martian]

Nesutizale, on 26 July 2020 - 03:16 AM, said:

Oh nice. Would be interesting to see how or if they would be different today then 5 years ago.

The gameplay is exactly the same as it was in 2015. The only thing that has changed are more advanced 'Mechs. The push through the tunnel that I saw on Crimson this morning is exactly the same as I remember from 2015. People are just not running their Catapults, Cataphracts and LRM Stalkers anymore, they have bought Mad Cat Mk. IIs, Blood Asps and Nova Cats. They do not brawl in Shadow Hawks and Griffins, they have bought Vapor Eagles and Huntsmans.

The only significant difference is that pushes through the saddle used to be much more common than they are now. I can not even remember the last time when I pushed with the entire team through this mountain pass.

Nesutizale, on 26 July 2020 - 03:16 AM, said:

Also about the image...who are the two guys that died in the very low left corner. Seriously that isn't even close to where people spawn, let alone where battles happen and yet there where found and killed there. You can run but you can't hide

Probably somebody who wanted to hide there and wait out the timer.

Or perhaps somebody who attempted to cap the nearby base in Conquest or Assault and was challenged by returning Lights and died near that base.

[C H E E K I E Z]

martian, on 26 July 2020 - 03:50 AM, said:

The gameplay is exactly the same as it was in 2015. The only thing that has changed are more advanced 'Mechs. The push through the tunnel that I saw on Crimson this morning is exactly the same as I remember from 2015. People are just not running their Catapults, Cataphracts and LRM Stalkers anymore, they have bought Mad Cat Mk. IIs, Blood Asps and Nova Cats. They do not brawl in Shadow Hawks and Griffins, they have bought Vapor Eagles and Huntsmans.

The only significant difference is that pushes through the saddle used to be much more common than they are now. I can not even remember the last time when I pushed with the entire team through this mountain pass.

Because back then when people would push through the pass, the biggest scary thing you could see is maybe a few atlas, or a few other brawlers, but it didnt matter because you would just shoot your srm's and medium lasers, MAYBE an ac20.

Now if you try to push that same hill, if 4 mechs are looking at that hill, you have more than enough firepower to kill 2-3 mechs in a few alphas.

Back then a fract vs a pult, could take 30-35 seconds for a fight to end, people would miss, splash damage.

Now you have a dual heavy gauss with MPL ECM fafnir that can 1 tap most non heavy mechs, you have players that can leg a loctus from 600m away.

Games evolve, staying stagnant and wishing for the old times back will only drag you down, In today's society its either evolve with the times or get left behind in them.

[Nesutizale]

I wonder if the gameplay realy stayed the same with lots of people complaining about nascar it would be interesting to see if that is reflected by the heatmaps.
On some maps I imagne that its pretty much the same. Crimson is a good example where I think things stayed pretty much the same because there are only 3 routes you can take. Saddle, Tunnel and beside the tunnel. You simply can't realy nascar on that map.

Other maps, for example River City...I have seen last week a team that actualy used the bridge. Thats something I haven't seen in years.

Also not seeing it anymore is on Frozen City classic the battle of the line with the accacional light running through the tunnel but a more nascar like behavior.

[BTGbullseye]

Nesutizale, on 26 July 2020 - 10:17 AM, said:

You simply can't realy nascar on that map.

I 100% disagree, since half my team last night did it around through the tunnel, and over the saddle for 3 loops. Naturally that gave me the highest matchscore in the match since I was the anvil the enemy team hit against every time the came out of the tunnel. (FNR-5 with quad LB-10X)

Nascar is possible on EVERY map, and it always makes matchscores low for everyone that is part of the nascar, except the leader of it.

[martian]

BTGbullseye, on 26 July 2020 - 10:25 AM, said:

Nascar is possible on EVERY map, and it always makes matchscores low for everyone that is part of the nascar, except the leader of it.

You are absolutely right.

I remember one PUG game on Polar Highlands where we nascared about five times around one damned piece of ice approximately 2 metres big.

PuGs would nascar even around a matchbox on the floor.

[Jman5]

C H E E K I E Z, on 26 July 2020 - 05:54 AM, said:

Because back then when people would push through the pass, the biggest scary thing you could see is maybe a few atlas, or a few other brawlers, but it didnt matter because you would just shoot your srm's and medium lasers, MAYBE an ac20.

Now if you try to push that same hill, if 4 mechs are looking at that hill, you have more than enough firepower to kill 2-3 mechs in a few alphas.

Back then a fract vs a pult, could take 30-35 seconds for a fight to end, people would miss, splash damage.

Now you have a dual heavy gauss with MPL ECM fafnir that can 1 tap most non heavy mechs, you have players that can leg a loctus from 600m away.

Games evolve, staying stagnant and wishing for the old times back will only drag you down, In today's society its either evolve with the times or get left behind in them.

Playing a light, my life flashes before my eyes whenever a heavy guass Fafnir or quad UAC madcat mk2 looks at me.

[JediPanther]

C H E E K I E Z, on 26 July 2020 - 05:54 AM, said:

Because back then when people would push through the pass, the biggest scary thing you could see is maybe a few atlas, or a few other brawlers, but it didnt matter because you would just shoot your srm's and medium lasers, MAYBE an ac20.

Now if you try to push that same hill, if 4 mechs are looking at that hill, you have more than enough firepower to kill 2-3 mechs in a few alphas.

Back then a fract vs a pult, could take 30-35 seconds for a fight to end, people would miss, splash damage.

Now you have a dual heavy gauss with MPL ECM fafnir that can 1 tap most non heavy mechs, you have players that can leg a loctus from 600m away.

Games evolve, staying stagnant and wishing for the old times back will only drag you down, In today's society its either evolve with the times or get left behind in them.

Yeah I agree. Alphas use to be 35-40s but now that is just a scratch in the paint job. What is worse is that lame ghost heat prevents other mechs from doing the same or nearly same damage even with their stock load outs. KGC pfff? The catapults can still do good but they arn't as great as they use to be. They still can absorb just as much damage as an assault when you twist.

The vast majority of IS mechs require quirks just to compete with clans and since they can never match alpha to alpha have to use more hit and run or mob tactics. Just like the old games clans > is like always.

[BTGbullseye]

JediPanther, on 26 July 2020 - 03:57 PM, said:

The vast majority of IS mechs require quirks just to compete with clans and since they can never match alpha to alpha have to use more hit and run or mob tactics. Just like the old games clans > is like always.

Any IS mech with dual RAC5 is a menace to everything on the battlefield. The Clans don't have anything even close to that for DPS. A duel between a meta DHGauss Annihilator and a medium with dual RAC5's ends up with a dead Annihilator. (so long as the RAC pilot stays on target)

[Scout Derek]

Maps. Mechs. Player quality.

Those three generally kill the matches. The more lopsided these three factors become, the worse the matches.


We hit the pinnacle of the worst of the three years ago.

[martian]

BTGbullseye, on 26 July 2020 - 10:00 PM, said:

Any IS mech with dual RAC5 is a menace to everything on the battlefield. The Clans don't have anything even close to that for DPS. A duel between a meta DHGauss Annihilator and a medium with dual RAC5's ends up with a dead Annihilator. (so long as the RAC pilot stays on target)

Until both of your RACs jam simultaneously ...

[Nesutizale]

[BTGbullseye]

martian, on 28 July 2020 - 12:06 AM, said:

Until both of your RACs jam simultaneously ...

Very true. Quad RAC2's is similar damage with better uptime.

[Brauer]

BTGbullseye, on 26 July 2020 - 10:00 PM, said:

Any IS mech with dual RAC5 is a menace to everything on the battlefield. The Clans don't have anything even close to that for DPS. A duel between a meta DHGauss Annihilator and a medium with dual RAC5's ends up with a dead Annihilator. (so long as the RAC pilot stays on target)

What. I would be happy to show you how very wrong that is. Any dual RAC5 medium vs. my DHG Anni with an 80 point alpha. The Anni will obliterate the RAC5 mech.