58 replies to this topic

[AnAnachronismAlive]

With the recent rumours about "internal discussions" taking place at PGI regarding potential future scenarios for MWO (or the franchise in general), I felt like asking for opinions / assessments by people with a more sophisticated in-depth view of the gaming-industry in general.

With Microsoft aquiring several studios over the last couple of months/years - and despite PGIs BT-licence being prolonged not long ago if I recall correctly: is some kind of partnership / acquisition a likely thing?

I just can't imagine MW5 sales numbers paying PGI's bills for a prolonged period of time, even with

• the first DLC supposedly incoming soonish,
  
• the expected steam-release coming end of the year,
  
• a certain amount of money transfered into PGI coffers via the epic deal,
  
• several employees leaving.

While I have not found any way to access (reliable) business-numbers to judge upon PGI's financial status itself, there have to be certain future prospects ...

Please - even though past experiences may have made ye bitter - try to discuss the matter with an objective / analytical mindset.

Hope to see most of you on (future and brighter) battlefields!

[martian]

AnAnachronismAlive, on 24 September 2020 - 07:10 AM, said:

With the recent rumours about "internal discussions" taking place at PGI regarding potential future scenarios for MWO (or the franchise in general), I felt like asking for opinions / assessments by people with a more sophisticated in-depth view of the gaming-industry in general.

There is no proof that there are any "internal discussions", just one generic non-committing Russ Bullock's Tweet.

That's all.

It is no different from early 2020 PGI's statement in one of MW5 updates: "It will still exist, do not worry."

I still remember Russ Bullock's talk about the Community Warfare, how great it is going to be, etc, only to admit a few weeks (or months?) later that all he has are some napkin ideas because he had waited to get his MechWarrior licence renewed by Microsoft.

Do you remember? "60-90 days?"

AnAnachronismAlive, on 24 September 2020 - 07:10 AM, said:

With Microsoft aquiring several studios over the last couple of months/years - and despite PGIs BT-licence being prolonged not long ago if I recall correctly: is some kind of partnership / acquisition a likely thing?

Probably not. Microsoft owns BattleTech/MechWarrior/MechCommander electronic game rights and trademarks and licences them occasionaly. As long as it gets some cash, Microsoft does not care.

When we are talking about it, the relationship between Topps and CGL is exactly the same case.

AnAnachronismAlive, on 24 September 2020 - 07:10 AM, said:

I just can't imagine MW5 sales numbers paying PGI's bills for a prolonged period of time, even with

• the first DLC supposedly incoming soonish,
  
• the expected steam-release coming end of the year,
  
• a certain amount of money transfered into PGI coffers via the epic deal,
  
• several employees leaving.

Would you give Russ Bullock more cash? After all you know about MWO? After all his: "That was our position at the time?"

AnAnachronismAlive, on 24 September 2020 - 07:10 AM, said:

While I have not found any way to access (reliable) business-numbers to judge upon PGI's financial status itself, there have to be certain future prospects ...

Please - even though past experiences may have made ye bitter - try to discuss the matter with an objective / analytical mindset.

Hope to see most of you on (future and brighter) battlefields!

Experience is the best teacher.

In this case, our experience with PGI ...

Edited by martian, 24 September 2020 - 08:12 AM.

[VonBruinwald]

martian, on 24 September 2020 - 08:10 AM, said:

-snip-

tl:dr version

[LordNothing]

"internal discussions" could just mean they reached an agreement on what kind of beer to keep in the company fridge.

[Nightbird]

Because MW5 was a flop, and MWO was a financial success, it's more logical for them to work on MWO2. They also extended their BT license to 2025, which they wouldn't have done if they planned to give up on this IP.

Overall, it wouldn't make sense for them to not work on MWO2.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

[LordNothing]

Nightbird, on 24 September 2020 - 12:56 PM, said:

Because MW5 was a flop, and MWO was a financial success, it's more logical for them to work on MWO2. They also extended their BT license to 2025, which they wouldn't have done if they planned to give up on this IP.

Overall, it wouldn't make sense for them to not work on MWO2.

i just hope they ditch the f2p model and all the bs that comes with it in favor of a pay to play title. essentially mw5 +pvp. people dont want to have to buy all their stuff again (especially if they are reusing assets), so a game revolving around the mech pack model will probably not work out very well.

though i can think of ways to do f2p, except change the focus from mechs to something else. a system where all mechs cost cbills, but you pay for a drop ship. bigger drop ship, the more mechs you have. start all new players with a leopard. maybe sell planets, this enables you to set up a base and other facilities, which again could be things you pay for. and make it an open world mmo proper (mwo is just an mo, there is no massive) instead of an arena shooter. me personally if they do f2p again, im not going to pay this time round. ive given those people enough money. especially if its more of the same with some new skins slapped on.

but if they want to sell me a new game then maybe, on sale, certainly no preorder bs. same as im going to do with the mw5 dlc. people were scoring copies for practically nothing just a couple months after it came out. even if its just an arena shooter. pay once and run your own servers/mods/what have you. a lot better than what we have. arena shooters are better with mods, that was a huge selling point to q3a/ut back in the day. you never knew what you were gonna get when you joined a server.

Edited by LordNothing, 24 September 2020 - 03:37 PM.

[RickySpanish]

I hope they do produce a new MWO, but the problem is that multiplayer games are a monsterous undertaking. Who knows how much of the client or server side code is reuseable? Technology changes even in a relatively short time, and the client will most certainly be running on Unreal Engine instead of Crytek. I suppose they could adapt the MW5 code to do more than just co-op, but that stuff still has to communicate with their servers using a similar architecture as MWO does if they want to retain their existing backend.

Edited by RickySpanish, 24 September 2020 - 03:40 PM.

[JediPanther]

Let's pretend pgi did for a fact announce an mwo2 or v2 with all the major game sites like pc gamer,ign etc full page one announcements. Who from mwo original would buy in? Not me. I already did a lot of cash here over the years. Would you focus on only new customers or both new and prior? We all know how pgi works so there is that very hard sell.

[Nightbird]

LordNothing, on 24 September 2020 - 03:35 PM, said:

i just hope they ditch the f2p model and all the bs that comes with it in favor of a pay to play title. essentially mw5 +pvp. people dont want to have to buy all their stuff again (especially if they are reusing assets), so a game revolving around the mech pack model will probably not work out very well.

though i can think of ways to do f2p, except change the focus from mechs to something else. a system where all mechs cost cbills, but you pay for a drop ship. bigger drop ship, the more mechs you have. start all new players with a leopard. maybe sell planets, this enables you to set up a base and other facilities, which again could be things you pay for. and make it an open world mmo proper (mwo is just an mo, there is no massive) instead of an arena shooter. me personally if they do f2p again, im not going to pay this time round. ive given those people enough money. especially if its more of the same with some new skins slapped on.

but if they want to sell me a new game then maybe, on sale, certainly no preorder bs. same as im going to do with the mw5 dlc. people were scoring copies for practically nothing just a couple months after it came out. even if its just an arena shooter. pay once and run your own servers/mods/what have you. a lot better than what we have. arena shooters are better with mods, that was a huge selling point to q3a/ut back in the day. you never knew what you were gonna get when you joined a server.

This goes against all common sense in modern game making.

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 24 September 2020 - 12:56 PM, said:

Because MW5 was a flop, and MWO was a financial success, it's more logical for them to work on MWO2. They also extended their BT license to 2025, which they wouldn't have done if they planned to give up on this IP.

Overall, it wouldn't make sense for them to not work on MWO2.

I honestly think that it's a flop because they were stupid enough to accept Epic Exclusivity.

That being said, maybe they accepted it because they knew that it's not going anywhere, so lol.

Also, they did a lot of things that didn't made sense, so I wouldn't put it past them not to work in MWO2. Honestly, I wish MW:LL is still being developed, cause nothing like the Fans' dedication that makes a game good.

[LordNothing]

Nightbird, on 24 September 2020 - 04:36 PM, said:

This goes against all common sense in modern game making.

modern game making is utterly insane from what i grew up with.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Its a Russ & Bryan Company, like Tesla a Elon Musk Company is, and a Multiplayer game was never the vision of Russ, only Singleplayer was his Dream, now born with MW5.No Publisher gave Money for a Singleplayer Game , thats the sad true for the Birth of MWO..now a MWO2 the Dream of Russ & Bryan?????
and what learning PGI from the Transverse disaster over the Reality of markets???

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 24 September 2020 - 10:06 PM.

[VonBruinwald]

The6thMessenger, on 24 September 2020 - 07:01 PM, said:

I honestly think that it's a flop because they were stupid enough to accept Epic Exclusivity.

That being said, maybe they accepted it because they knew that it's not going anywhere, so lol.

I dare say the opposite, they're quids up because they accepted Epic exclusivity. Sure, they may not have the same volume of costumers but they're making significantly more profit off every sale.

I remember back when they first announced the switch and people were threatening to boycott; the numbers worked out that 2/3 people would need to cancel their pre-orders for PGI to make a loss.

[AnAnachronismAlive]

We all know what happened in the past and been talking it through over and over again (rightfully so). While recognizing former behavior of a person or an entity regarding future interactions is a wise attitude, there is no value in vocally ruminating it over and over again (despite sour mouth taste mebbe) just to valve our former / ongoing frustration.

Ol' grandfather once told me that watching the rear-mirror (or missed opportunities) too many times is another accident guaranteed and to keep the focus on the road ahead (even if this means leaving former waypoints behind).

That is why I was asking - despite thin to non-existant facts - for some "analytical" assessment of the situation (./bow nightbird) or potential prospects ... even if it results in the recognition of this beloved (I know => very non-analytical) IP to live it's final winter.

So pretty pretty please do not shed more tears or bad blood ... stained enough already.

Edited by AnAnachronismAlive, 24 September 2020 - 11:45 PM.

[Beorning]

Yes let's just forget. Maybe then we will get the respect we deserve.

No.

I'd prefer a MWO:2 done by someone else, with a different engine. Also with some sense of scope, as in something other than an arena brawler with some afterthoughts tacked on, but perhaps the days of hour long missions are long gone.

Though I do like the mostly LOS radar, PGI's concept of sensor wars seems to be 'make everything look like crap, oh, and make the thermal imaging look like crap because we can't add a saturation value to it for longer distances.' Put in some pointlessly stupid post processing nonsense (you can see this in MW5 too) and pretend it's 'a vision'.

Then there's the ability to gimp assault mechs so bad they can not look down to tie their shoes - why? because they couldn't handle the speeds (crap hit registration), so the speeds are gimped (they are all lies), so of course since the lights were too weak had to gimp torso speed and pitch on assaults. If a light gets behind a lone assault out in the open it should win. That's daft.

What makes you think PGI would do anything but disappoint the most amount of people possible? This is tough question, as mech warrior fans can't agree on anything, thus you have people shooting you the finger before you even start.

I still have fun with the game, and they did do some things very well to be fair. I also do not mind the grind, though the way the MC is set up is 'needlessly' meant to be confusing. So a big **** you to the bean counter who set that up. Like 10k for $10 was too easy. There is obviously too much dead weight in the company and it's the ones with the **** ideas.

Then again I would be happier with a Titanium engine 2.0 and low light vision with the focus on game play rather then eye candy.

[The6thMessenger]

Beorning, on 25 September 2020 - 02:50 AM, said:

Then there's the ability to gimp assault mechs so bad they can not look down to tie their shoes - why? because they couldn't handle the speeds (crap hit registration), so the speeds are gimped (they are all lies), so of course since the lights were too weak had to gimp torso speed and pitch on assaults. If a light gets behind a lone assault out in the open it should win. That's daft.

Honestly, I kind of agree. MWO:2 should be by another developer. I hate that MWO is a bit more of a twitch shooter, I hate that they had to balance Clan as this sluggish glass-cannon while the IS as sturdy tanks that are a dream to pilot, instead of having a proper techbase balance.

While personally, I don't mind lights having a bit more teeth, it's unfun to fight them in while a slow mech. Damn right the Direwolf needs to fear a Piranha despite astronomical weight difference.

[Nightbird]

LordNothing, on 24 September 2020 - 09:15 PM, said:

modern game making is utterly insane from what i grew up with.

I'm glad you recognize it's just nostalgia, not business sense.

[VonBruinwald]

The6thMessenger, on 25 September 2020 - 03:48 AM, said:

I hate that they had to balance Clan as this sluggish glass-cannon while the IS as sturdy tanks that are a dream to pilot, instead of having a proper techbase balance.

Clantech is inherently OP, that's its gimmick. You can't balance it without having Clanners cry "muh tech crutch!"

Take the clan PPC:
Same heat damage ratio as the standard (1:1)
Tonnage and slots of a snub
Range of an ER
Damage of a heavy

Can't balance that without tears.

[RickySpanish]

Clan Tech is balanced in other ways though - less quirks and fixed internals on Omnimechs. I'd say the two sides are quite compearable overall. Geometry and hardpoint selection matters more to me than anything else.