25 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

So I was in snow Canyon Network, dead in a Wubmaster, admittedly my own fault, and was watching a Mad Dog with 4x LRM15 + 6x ERSL, fight against a stealth armor cicada. Still 1 k ammo at late game, not even Artemis, you know, basic background lurmer.

"Hows about more lasers?"

"LRMs are best employed direct fire."

But no, it was a resounding no from both of the two.

"Bugged at 800 meters", LRMs were nerfed. To which I responded, "not necessarily, Dual Arc worked nice".

800 meters? Seriously? Do you mean that you can't get a stable lock from IDF while from 800 meters?

Nevermind that you will use the lower arc with los, never mind that you actually get better spread and faster locks that way, and massing good lasers that account for majority of your firepower is a good way to be forced to get your own locks which are more reliable.

Spoiler

Just for the heck of it, I launched myself in my 6x ERML + 2x LRM20A Timber Wolf S, and I was landed in Polar Highlands. And yes, I did 1 K damage and several kills (4 actually), but "polar highlands" you might say --- well we were against several LRM boats, like seriously it was two Mad-Dogs and a Warhammer IIC. The mad dog is also an ATM boat to be honest. And I was ****** legged, because the LRMs apparently have a tendency to hit legs when I was rained upon, poor positioning on my part.

And guess what, I out lived, and I out damaged, and out killed all of them. Yes it's one match, but I an active front-line lurmer, beaten passive background lurmers.

After months of maintenance mode, this is the lurmers that is left? Last laugh is on me *****.

BUILD: AU2D=:H1pl05Q7|9C|lB|WRql03Q7|9C|lB|WRrT0iD7|lB|lB|l^|l^|l^|WRsT05E7|lB|lB|l^|l^|l^|WRtd06E7ud07E7v700E7w404040

SKILL: a1330b001fe01375ebe0c83c3bc9f8e0306000000e86f663e214380212018

Edited by The6thMessenger, 20 September 2020 - 10:51 PM.

[Horseman]

Yep. LRMs aren't an IDF weapon, they're a DF weapon that can be used in IDF while you move to get direct line of sight to your target.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Yup LRM are great direct fire weapon when paired with some lasers

[LordNothing]

i also sometimes use my atms like mrms. locks are for chumps.

you know how much ******* discipline it takes to not wait for the lock to complete to fire? a lot.

Edited by LordNothing, 24 September 2020 - 09:44 PM.

[Johnny Slam]

I have a great time rolling with my [S] Centurions running vanilla 3XLR15 in-between matches, to make C-bills. I fell into using the builds by accident and they quickly required me to grab direct fire and my damage score went up. By playing the Cents I had to totally adjust my LRM style and the matches were much crazier and fun. I still have some tricked out Catapults but I almost never run them any more.

The Blob of 45 IS LRMs is so much more satisfying than my old clan missile boats as well, not to mention lights tend to avoid the Cents out of reflex.

Edited by Johnny Slam, 24 September 2020 - 11:12 PM.

[Willard Phule]

LordNothing, on 24 September 2020 - 09:41 PM, said:

i also sometimes use my atms like mrms. locks are for chumps.

you know how much ******* discipline it takes to not wait for the lock to complete to fire? a lot.

I'll be honest, my experience with MRMs (and RACs) is limited to goofing off with them to see how they work. I really don't like IS garbage on tabletop or here. But, I have noticed that they're definitely tighter and faster than ATMs. Now, as a Clan guy....I can tell you there's a difference between an ATM user and someone that skills up for them and understands how curve balls work.

Maxing out damage and cluster on the skill web is a must. Getting the lock on time helps, but what really makes ATMs work well is having an elevated position on your target because of the trajectory. And the best part is, you can dumbfire them while acquiring the target. After the lock, you can toss them out to the side and they'll curve back in, unlike LRMs.

[LordNothing]

Willard Phule, on 25 September 2020 - 11:00 AM, said:

I'll be honest, my experience with MRMs (and RACs) is limited to goofing off with them to see how they work. I really don't like IS garbage on tabletop or here. But, I have noticed that they're definitely tighter and faster than ATMs. Now, as a Clan guy....I can tell you there's a difference between an ATM user and someone that skills up for them and understands how curve balls work.

Maxing out damage and cluster on the skill web is a must. Getting the lock on time helps, but what really makes ATMs work well is having an elevated position on your target because of the trajectory. And the best part is, you can dumbfire them while acquiring the target. After the lock, you can toss them out to the side and they'll curve back in, unlike LRMs.

mrms are great at softening up targets or revealing their weak points. but if you try to boat them you will find yourself in a situation where you need a scalpel but only have a shotgun. its reminiscent of my first attempt at duck hunting. i mean i hit the duck on the first shot and it fell into the water, then we proceeded emptying an entire box of shells to try and stop it from swimming away. we had to go fetch a .22 rifle, a kayak, and a dog to finish the job. so all the good mrm builds stick a couple medium pulse lasers on it. a lot of people run the iv4 and only put mrm launchers on and i think thats a mistake. a pair of med pulse (or 2 small pulse and a couple lmgs) makes it a lot better.

i have a lot of problems with wait-to-fire weapons like rac, gauss or locking weapons. you miss a lot of those opportunity shots with those. its certainly a problem mrms dont have. but yes you need all the missile skills. i think spread might be a function of velocity as well so those may also help (experimentation required), and will certainly help at medium range deflection shots (for example against fast moving lights).

dumbfiring atms is also an essential skill as every now and again you will get a brave player trying to close the gap, and you usually dont have time to get a lock in those situations, or you might get 2 volleys off instead of one if you dumbfire the first (you usually have a lock by the second).

Edited by LordNothing, 25 September 2020 - 04:51 PM.

[Willard Phule]

LordNothing, on 25 September 2020 - 04:38 PM, said:

dumbfiring atms is also an essential skill as every now and again you will get a brave player trying to close the gap, and you usually dont have time to get a lock in those situations, or you might get 2 volleys off instead of one if you dumbfire the first (you usually have a lock by the second).

Agreed, but range is key. With a slower velocity and wider spread, the only way to do any appreciable damage without a lock is in the 300-500 range, and even then, you really have to have the spread and velocity tweaks maxed out. If you treat them like cStreaks, you at least have the benefit of being able to fire without a lock. I still wish they would have set those up to be able to be dumfired, too, but you know how it goes.

[LordNothing]

Willard Phule, on 26 September 2020 - 10:32 AM, said:

Agreed, but range is key. With a slower velocity and wider spread, the only way to do any appreciable damage without a lock is in the 300-500 range, and even then, you really have to have the spread and velocity tweaks maxed out. If you treat them like cStreaks, you at least have the benefit of being able to fire without a lock. I still wish they would have set those up to be able to be dumfired, too, but you know how it goes.

i never use atms outside their 2-damage threshold, its a waste of ammo.

[Willard Phule]

LordNothing, on 26 September 2020 - 02:05 PM, said:

i never use atms outside their 2-damage threshold, its a waste of ammo.

Depends on the purpose of doing it. Giving some people that "incoming missile" warning makes them leave their group and look for cover. But that's just an old LRM tactic and not useful for damaging anyone. It's just for finding the weakest member of a deathball and culling it from the herd. Best use of an LRM5 ever.

[The6thMessenger]

LordNothing, on 26 September 2020 - 02:05 PM, said:

i never use atms outside their 2-damage threshold, its a waste of ammo.

Yeah, kind of a waste. ATMs were supposed to be useful at ALL ranges because of ammo switching, but PGI can't do that.

[martian]

The6thMessenger, on 26 September 2020 - 10:06 PM, said:

Yeah, kind of a waste. ATMs were supposed to be useful at ALL ranges because of ammo switching, but PGI can't do that.

The same case as with the switchable Solid slugs / Clustershots for LBX autocannons.

Thank you, PGI.

[Willard Phule]

The6thMessenger, on 26 September 2020 - 10:06 PM, said:

Yeah, kind of a waste. ATMs were supposed to be useful at ALL ranges because of ammo switching, but PGI can't do that.

Don't get me started on all the different missile ammo types that were conveniently ignored because of the inability to program it. By the time the RACs and ATMs were in common usage, Swarm LRMs were a thing.

Hell, look at SRMs...Infernos should have been a thing long before the Clans invaded. We STILL don't have those.

[LordNothing]

i think the reason they didnt do it is they thought that the trouble of switching multiple ammo types between multiple weapons systems too much complexity. best things i could come up with is use 1-6 plus a modifier key to cycle ammo per group.

though perhaps they didn't want to create a balance nightmare by adding a bunch of ammo type weapons. its actually a good cheap way to add weapons to the game without needing all those pesky retrofits. i would give real money for more weapons.

Edited by LordNothing, 27 September 2020 - 03:46 PM.

[CFC Conky]

Willard Phule, on 26 September 2020 - 02:18 PM, said:

Depends on the purpose of doing it. Giving some people that "incoming missile" warning makes them leave their group and look for cover. But that's just an old LRM tactic and not useful for damaging anyone. It's just for finding the weakest member of a deathball and culling it from the herd. Best use of an LRM5 ever.

Does anyone still 'recon by lurm'? Fire that LRM5 over a hill and see where the ams is.

[Novakaine]

One should witness the awesome power of the Lurm-T-Bolt

[Willard Phule]

LordNothing, on 27 September 2020 - 03:45 PM, said:

i think the reason they didnt do it is they thought that the trouble of switching multiple ammo types between multiple weapons systems too much complexity. best things i could come up with is use 1-6 plus a modifier key to cycle ammo per group.

though perhaps they didn't want to create a balance nightmare by adding a bunch of ammo type weapons. its actually a good cheap way to add weapons to the game without needing all those pesky retrofits. i would give real money for more weapons.

I was always under the impression that the game engine itself couldn't handle it. By the time MW:O came out, Cryengine was getting outdated anyway. What always boggled my mind was how they handled the "placeholder." Why the "Clan AC" is still a bust fire weapon boggles the mind.

CFC Conky, on 27 September 2020 - 04:50 PM, said:

Does anyone still 'recon by lurm'? Fire that LRM5 over a hill and see where the ams is.

Great way to figure out where the Corsair is.

[LordNothing]

Willard Phule, on 28 September 2020 - 01:06 AM, said:

I was always under the impression that the game engine itself couldn't handle it. By the time MW:O came out, Cryengine was getting outdated anyway. What always boggled my mind was how they handled the "placeholder." Why the "Clan AC" is still a bust fire weapon boggles the mind.

im pretty sure the engine can handle ammo switching. especially considering that crysis had the feature.

the burst fire is the consequence of having guns that are a few tons lighter than the is equivalents. i never saw it as a drawback, and in many cases its a good thing. the real problem was their programmer decided to leave before they implemented the feature and never hired a replacement.

[Willard Phule]

LordNothing, on 28 September 2020 - 07:04 PM, said:

im pretty sure the engine can handle ammo switching. especially considering that crysis had the feature.

the burst fire is the consequence of having guns that are a few tons lighter than the is equivalents. i never saw it as a drawback, and in many cases its a good thing. the real problem was their programmer decided to leave before they implemented the feature and never hired a replacement.

Well, except that by canon, the "solid shot" ammo for the LBX is supposed to be just that...a single, solid slug. You know, like what the IS has for ACs.

And, if the engine can handle it, then I guess the shortcoming is on the people coding the game. The engine may be able to handle it, but PGI can't.

[Requiemking]

Willard Phule, on 29 September 2020 - 08:29 AM, said:

Well, except that by canon, the "solid shot" ammo for the LBX is supposed to be just that...a single, solid slug. You know, like what the IS has for ACs.

And, if the engine can handle it, then I guess the shortcoming is on the people coding the game. The engine may be able to handle it, but PGI can't.

It's a combination of both. Cryengine is a really old engine that's been lacking sufficient support from Crytek for some time, and unfortunately the game's code is such a massive mess of spaghetti-code that PGI's programmers have a hard time adding new stuff in.