95 replies to this topic

[Akillius]

My top 5 list in order of preference:
Crusader
Stinger / Wasp
Merlin
Chameleon

* Though only the first would likely sell well, dunno about the others.

[martian]

Miss Greene, on 29 October 2020 - 05:33 PM, said:

Fair points. It's a puzzle to work around. I have a zillion BattleMechs that are much more optimal at a given task, the entire fun of an Omni is that the limitations in MWO make it harder to figure out. Granted, I don't really care if they add the Firestarter Omni or not. The only IS Omni I absolutely want is the Raptor, but if I can only have one Medium I'd rather have the BJ-O or Men Shen.

I remember Shadow Cat owners saying: Actually I do not need that many fixed Jump jets. I do not need that fixed equipment as fixed MASC on my 'Mech.

Other players hate seeing locked Double Heat Sinks precisely in the location where they do not want them, etc.

Miss Greene, on 29 October 2020 - 05:33 PM, said:

I mean, the Arrow doesn't have much as it is. I'm not asking for S-tier, just good enough to not feel like I'm kicking myself in the groin if I run it in QP.

That's what I call undue optimism : Hoping that PGI will quirk the 'Mech the way you need it or want it.

Many proud Uziel or Thanatos owners had such hopes too, especially when they pre-ordered their 'Mechs.

Miss Greene, on 29 October 2020 - 05:33 PM, said:

My statement stems from the fact that the torso is narrow but deep. Like the BSW, CRB, or even a CPLT. Basically, it's not humanoid at all. What else should I call it? Avian?

Yes, and it has a very prominent flat part taking up the entire front of the 'Mech.

Miss Greene, on 29 October 2020 - 05:33 PM, said:

I would not recommend making any assumption of hitboxes based on the OG line-art for this 'Mech. It's much too crude.

This is how the Men Shen is depicted in the official BattleTech Technical Readout and other official BattleTech illustrations.

Even the miniature shares this big front flat shape.

Miss Greene, on 29 October 2020 - 05:33 PM, said:

You don't know how many inattentive Novas you've side-crippled, more like. Hence the front-forward. A well-played Nova is quite durable, they were very good brawl options back when MRBC was still a thing on account of the laser spam and the fact that it can spread damage well.

The Clan Nova with its fixed Clan XL Engine can survive side torso loss.

For the IS Black Hawk-KU with its fixed IS XL engine the side torso loss means instant death.

This fixed XL engine can not be swapped for more durable Light engine.

Miss Greene, on 29 October 2020 - 05:33 PM, said:

And I counter your claim of it being sluggish because it's a 60 tonner with it also being an IS 'Mech and therefore likely to be more agile than you expect.

It's worth pointing out that Chris is not in charge anymore, so speculation is even less certain than usual.

Yes, you are right.

I think that this is one possible reason why people do not buy new 'Mech packs: They want to know what exactly they are buying and they want to see the actual 'Mech model and its in-game stats.

Edited by martian, 29 October 2020 - 10:01 PM.

[ccrider]

Why so much live for mechs almost guaranteed to be garbage? We got plenty of those at the end. Anvil is actually a good mechs; SharePoint inflation should give it 6 laser points, jjs and ecm is a glorious combo; add some minor (10pts or so) armor quirks to the torsos and it's a fast knife fighter at 60 tons that gives IS an option for speed rushing missle lines and makes conquest interesting instead of going super small in assassins. I don't see why anyone would want IS omni mechs. I think the Templar is sexy but it would be hot garbage to play. And the rest are goddam fugly.

[jss78]

As far as I'm concerned, MWO's way past the point where it needs any 'mech in terms of bringing gameplay diversity. Probably reached that point about 3 years ago.

I'd put highest priority in modelling 'mechs that MW5 needs, not this game. You can then secondarily port them here -- because why not, if the models exist, although again this game doesn't need 'mechs.

And what MW5 needs is more 'mech diversity in the early-game/low-threat end of the spectrum. So you don't have to spam Cicadas the whole time. So 3025-era light/medium 'mechs. Stingers, Wasps, Hornets, Ostscouts, Whitworths?

In the "not really needed but I STILL want it" section there's the Crusader. Because I just know an Alex Iglesias-designed Crusader would be one of the best-looking 'mechs ever.

[martian]

Bowelhacker, on 29 October 2020 - 01:53 PM, said:

Why the **** can't we just get the Ostsol?! RIDDLE ME THAT, PGI!

I agree that perhaps the Ostsol would not be a bad choice.

I would imagine PGI offering these four standard variants:

• OTL-4D - fast pure energy boat with at least six energy hardpoints (maybe more); the basic model
  
• OTL-5M - the same energy boat, but maybe with more AMS hardpoints; the usual upgraded 3050 model that you can buy with Double Heat Sinks and modern XL Engine right from the store
  
• OTL-5D - combines four energy hardpoints with five missile hardpoints in left torso, right torso and center torso
  
• OTL-7M - comes equipped with four lasers and a pair of Light Gauss Rifles mounted high in side torsos (see the picture). Good choice for people who would like to use ballistic weapons, but do not want to pay cash to buy "IV-Four" Quickdraw with guns in its arms, do not want the Dragon with its easily targetable gun arm, and do not like the Champion with its broad figure.

Reinforcements 'Mech
OTL-9M - it is faster and thus has higher engine cap and comes with ECM and MASC, but with less energy hardpoints to balance these advantages

Hero 'Mech - well, the Ostsol has been produced in the Free Worlds League since 2694, so a Marik pilot like Francis Canny would be a logical choice. It's not like we have had too many of them in MWO. Or what about some Word of Blake Hero? They used the Ostsol too.

Quirks - the Ostsol is described as carrying a very good sensor system, so perhaps add some sensor range quirk? Or maybe getting faster target info? Something like that.

And of course some usual weapons and armor quirks.

OTL-7M Ostsol

[East Indy]

Per the OP, I'd love the Crusader (and Stinger, Wasp, Valkyrie) but I assume staying away from any more Unseen was contingent in the agreement with Harmony Gold.

[jss78]

East Indy, on 31 October 2020 - 06:44 AM, said:

Per the OP, I'd love the Crusader (and Stinger, Wasp, Valkyrie) but I assume staying away from any more Unseen was contingent in the agreement with Harmony Gold.

...that's a good question. They stopped adding them before the legal stuff, but it might not signify anything that they haven't resumed since.

First, in the recent NGNG podcast Russ did mention in passing that perhaps they might consider adding more unseen. (With no commitment whatsoever, but certainly didn't seem to indicate that there's any fundamental obstacle to it.)

Also, following the court case, Catalyst has been putting out their own redesigns for ALL unseen (including Crusader, Wasp, Stinger), with designs fairly faithful to the original, at a rapid pace. So they certainly don't seem afraid of HG any longer.

Edited by jss78, 31 October 2020 - 09:16 AM.

[dario03]

Urbie IIC is the correct answer.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

I'd love to have a Woodsman. But barring that some IS omnis would be very welcome. Maybe a Crusader?

[The Lighthouse]

East Indy, on 31 October 2020 - 06:44 AM, said:

Per the OP, I'd love the Crusader (and Stinger, Wasp, Valkyrie) but I assume staying away from any more Unseen was contingent in the agreement with Harmony Gold.

I doubt it. Otherwise we would not had gotten Warhammer IIC, Marauder II and Rifleman IIC, which all came out immediately (I mean about 3 months later) after the lawsuit was over.

[GweNTLeR]

I'd like Anubis and Lao Hu. Anubis - high hardpoints, stealth, many missiles, big engine.
Lao Hu - big XL engine, LB20-X in arm (yeah, that makes it impossible to implement in a correct way in MWO, but PGI could do AC20 conversion like on nightstar-9S). Small amount of hardpoints should lead to huge quirks.
Sha Yu - many lasers, stealth, snub-nose variant.
As for clan - Hellhound, aka Wolverine IIC. Like it alot in MW4

Edited by GweNTLeR, 02 November 2020 - 08:35 AM.

[Heavy Money]

I'm not familiar enough with battletech to say exactly what of the unused mechs should be added. But from a gameplay perspective, it seems some roles are missing.

It'd be nice to get a heavy mech that has decent speed and can run ECM, Jumpjets, and MASC. Basically, like a shadowcat, but heavy. The Shadowcat has all these toys which makes it fun to play and versatile, but isn't so great on firepower or defense so its not OP. There are several different ways you can run it too. There doesn't seem to be a heavy or assault like this right now.

[martian]

Heavy Money, on 02 November 2020 - 10:23 AM, said:

I'm not familiar enough with battletech to say exactly what of the unused mechs should be added. But from a gameplay perspective, it seems some roles are missing.

It'd be nice to get a heavy mech that has decent speed and can run ECM, Jumpjets, and MASC. Basically, like a shadowcat, but heavy. The Shadowcat has all these toys which makes it fun to play and versatile, but isn't so great on firepower or defense so its not OP. There are several different ways you can run it too. There doesn't seem to be a heavy or assault like this right now.

Well, the problem is that if you want a Heavy or Assault 'Mech with the mobility of the Shadow Cat, you will have to pay for it with a big and heavy engine. Such 'Mech is going to have a weak armament.

See the Linebacker or the Man o' War for examples of such overengined 'Mechs.

If you take the Linebacker H and put some armor on it, you will have about 11 tons of pod space available. That's not much.

Now substract tons needed for ECM and MASC. You actual pod space available would be about 7 tons - on a 65-tonner.

[Heavy Money]

martian, on 02 November 2020 - 11:23 AM, said:

Well, the problem is that if you want a Heavy or Assault 'Mech with the mobility of the Shadow Cat, you will have to pay for it with a big and heavy engine. Such 'Mech is going to have a weak armament.

See the Linebacker or the Man o' War for examples of such overengined 'Mechs.

If you take the Linebacker H and put some armor on it, you will have about 11 tons of pod space available. That's not much.

Now substract tons needed for ECM and MASC. You actual pod space available would be about 7 tons - on a 65-tonner.

Yeah. I have a Hellfire which already has MASC, and am aware of the issue, which is that these things don't scale to the higher weight classes that well.

It doesn't necessarily need to be the same speed/agility/jump height as the shadowcat.

For example, the Catapult Jester can run a light 355(88.5 base speed), 4x jump jets, and still have 15tons left running Endo-steel and light ferro-fibrous. It also has 2 AMS slots. If a hypothetical new mech could take ECM and MASC instead of AMS, you'd end up with a similar situation. It'd be undergunned but versatile. If it were Clan, it could have an XL engine instead giving it 23tons to work with. That sounds like it'd be fun to play to me. If it needed more firepower, there could be some offensive quirks.

Similarly, the Ebon Jaguar currently has 81kph base and ~28-30 tons (dependijng on armor) open. If it could run Jumpjets (4 tons, MASC(2tons), and ECM(1t), it would have 23 tons open still. Sounds like it could work!

I'm not saying these loadouts would be great or meta builds, i'm just saying its a bit of design space that is currently unused.

Edited by Heavy Money, 02 November 2020 - 04:55 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

martian, on 29 October 2020 - 10:00 PM, said:

I remember Shadow Cat owners saying: Actually I do not need that many fixed Jump jets. I do not need that fixed equipment as fixed MASC on my 'Mech.

Other players hate seeing locked Double Heat Sinks precisely in the location where they do not want them, etc.

I am not saying I necessarily want the locked equipment; I don't. I think PGI should evaluate Omnis case-by-case for what gets left on and what becomes customizable. But working with what you have is still what makes the Omni interesting to me. The MLX would be massively improved if I could get rid of the CAP in the head, but at the same time figuring out builds that are good on it in spite of that limitation was part of the fun before it got the MG arms.

Quote

That's what I call undue optimism : Hoping that PGI will quirk the 'Mech the way you need it or want it.

Many proud Uziel or Thanatos owners had such hopes too, especially when they pre-ordered their 'Mechs.

Not optimism, fact. The Arrow is not quirked particularly well, and yet it's my single most-played 'Mech and the stats I have on it are pretty good considering I've been playing it since I was new 6 years ago, with two thirds of its 948 games occurring in 2014-2015 before quirks were a thing it even had. I can make a BJ-O work in QP, it's not going to play significantly different from the way I build my Arrow other than having more tons to work with.

Quote

Yes, and it has a very prominent flat part taking up the entire front of the 'Mech.

This is how the Men Shen is depicted in the official BattleTech Technical Readout and other official BattleTech illustrations.

Even the miniature shares this big front flat shape.

And? There are many 'Mechs in MWO which look nothing like their official BT art or the miniatures. The Black Knight, for example. The Centurion. The Locust. The Marauder. The Nightstar.

Quote

The Clan Nova with its fixed Clan XL Engine can survive side torso loss.

For the IS Black Hawk-KU with its fixed IS XL engine the side torso loss means instant death.

This fixed XL engine can not be swapped for more durable Light engine.

I stand by my position that, on this particular 'Mech, this is not as big of an issue as you think it will be. Novas, played well, do not lose their side torsos quickly. This 'Mech will have enough hardpoints and enough open podspace that it will be hyper-lethal when it shoots. You remember the old pre-nerf cSPL Novas? This will be that on steroids, because IS MedLas have twice the range and less burn duration. I can hear the screeching already.

Quote

Yes, you are right.

I think that this is one possible reason why people do not buy new 'Mech packs: They want to know what exactly they are buying and they want to see the actual 'Mech model and its in-game stats.

I don't by them because they keep offering boring same ol' same ol' that add nothing interesting to the game. IS Omnis are immediately interesting considering there are none in the game. IS Omnis are additionally interesting because some of them give IS entirely unprecedented build possibilities. That PGI is releasing 'Mechs with wrong or insufficient quirks just compounds an existing error.

[MrFatBard]

i have often found myself wanting a clan 45 ton clan mech because im losing my mind with the only two being sniper based low damage mechs maybe a 45 ton clan battle mech or another IIC

also a side note if the urbanmech IIC is never added i will ... probly not uninstall this game