45 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

Moochachoo, on 04 November 2020 - 03:22 AM, said:

Is installing the epic games launcher required to use the modding tools? Or is it going to be a stand alone software?

ah bummer, looks like you do need an account to download it, I suppose if there is enough interest, the folks at the nexus might create their own modding tools, that is if there is enough interest.

if PGI really want to they can release the modding tool on their website, like Bethesda and the creation kit.

Russ claims that you don't need to have Epic Launcher at all times, just to install it. Of course, I heard that already with MW5, which wasn't the case with what i heard from others. Fool me twice, shame on me.

And FO4 and Skyrim always has been about realistic weapons and tiddies, so don't expect much.

As for the modding tools, they got too lazy to make their own, and they can't just give away what is basically the copy of UE preloaded with MW5.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 04 November 2020 - 04:01 AM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

The6thMessenger, on 04 November 2020 - 03:32 AM, said:

Russ claims that you don't need to have Epic Launcher at all times, just to install it. Of course, I heard that already with MW5, which wasn't the case. Fool me twice, shame on me.

It's not gaining any more truth if you say it repeatedly. You don't have to have Epic active to play MW5. Just for installation and updates.

[The6thMessenger]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 04 November 2020 - 03:38 AM, said:

It's not gaining any more truth if you say it repeatedly. You don't have to have Epic active to play MW5. Just for installation and updates.

I don't care man. Guy shafted us once already. I waited 1 year for this bull-****.

Either way, I'm not touching EGS just to check, it's pointless. It's like claiming that Rick-Roll was taken down from Youtube, then you check it to be sure, only to find that you rickrolled yourself.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 04 November 2020 - 03:54 AM.

[TELEFORCE]

As long as i don't need EGS to install mods, I'm happy. Based on what I've read here, I don't see what the problem is. I look forward to picking up MW5 on a Steam sale at some point.

Edited by TELEFORCE, 04 November 2020 - 11:21 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

TELEFORCE, on 04 November 2020 - 11:21 AM, said:

As long as i don't need EGS to install mods, I'm happy. Based on what I've read here, I don't see what the problem is. I look forward to picking up MW5 on a Steam sale at some point.

Problem is I can't make my own mods, or change others' mod.

If there's things i don't like on someone else's mods, I can't change it, I'm on their mercy. And trust me, from FO4, you can't just keep asking modders to change their mod for you.

[Nightbird]

Yes but Epic makes the Unreal Engine, so if you really wanted to avoid their editor, you should complain about MW5 using UE, not that you can't get their editor from Steam.

PGI doesn't make the UE or Editor, it's was out of their hands as soon as UE got picked for the engine. You're barking up the wrong tree.

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 04 November 2020 - 02:44 PM, said:

Yes but Epic makes the Unreal Engine, so if you really wanted to avoid their editor, you should complain about MW5 using UE, not that you can't get their editor from Steam.

PGI doesn't make the UE or Editor, it's was out of their hands as soon as UE got picked for the engine. You're barking up the wrong tree.

Hat in Time is UE, and it has its own mod tools apart from the UE, which is accessible through Steam. This is plain laziness and/or incompetence. They didn't have to rely on UE4 just to make mods like plenty of other games, Unreal Engine isn't just some mod-tool like what they said, it's the factory.

Even Navid agrees with me with this stupidity about mod tools.

Quote

Even if PGI released the game on steam a year ago with none of that EGS exclusive BS, The editor still needed to be EGS.

Which brings us to another point.
When PGI announced that they are going to support mods, many thought that they are developing dedicated modding tools and scripting for that purpose. No one knew that the "mod tools" is literally going to be the entire engine with the game raw project pre-loaded.

Mod tools in general sense is like a workshop (small or big)... that can do repairs and modifications to your car. What PGI released was the whole car factory, with all strings attached.

- https://discord.com/...448399591571467

I agree. At that point, the Ureal Editor would still have been EGS. But when they say Mod Tools, it's not the UE with MW5 preloaded, it's something like the Hat in Time Mod Tools, or the Creation Kit of FO4, or the World Editor in Warcraft 3. etc. etc..

This right here, shafts a lot of Steam users. I don't want to have to bother with Epic Store at all, that was my reprieve after 1 year, that I don't have to deal with them. But nah man, hows about 1 more year of exclusivity?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 04 November 2020 - 03:18 PM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

The6thMessenger, on 03 November 2020 - 02:39 PM, said:

So I asked PGI directly if MW5 Tool-Kit would be released in Steam. At first he has an answer. But then followed by an update.

So PGI, could you shaft us some more? Maybe another 1 year of exclusivity?

The Tool Kit being exclusive to the Epic Store is basically like making MW5 exclusive to the epic store. If we have to download that trash of a launcher, it defeats the point of having it on Steam Workshop to begin with.

Hat in Time, an Unreal Engine game has modding-tools on Steam. This is just a poor excuse.

EDIT:

LOL, dude, you got shouted down on the Discord, now you came to whine here... it's sad really.

[The6thMessenger]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 09 November 2020 - 04:57 AM, said:

LOL, dude, you got shouted down on the Discord, now you came to whine here... it's sad really.

Pretty sure I came here first. THEN went to discord.

[JC Daxion]

LordNothing, on 03 November 2020 - 05:22 PM, said:

not surprised in the slightest.

almost everyone goes for proprietary lock-in these days to make money rather than delivering a good product. it sucks but i know why they do it. consoles have been doing this since consoles existed. lots of industries do this not just video games. streaming services, smartphones, apple, cars, and on and on. i usually steer clear from product that are part of an "ecosystem" because its almost always a scam to trap you under their thumb.

I'm curious do you also complain if the only way to play a game is on a computer? aka PC exclusive? I always see folks complain about a PS4, or X-box exvlusive, but it seams like PC exclusives are ok, as long as they are not launcher locked. (even though steam has 1k's of games that you can't get any other place, they get a pass)

This program you are talking about is Epics tools, If you can just DL them and use them i don't see what the big issue is. Nothing is stopping you from getting them as long as PGI has it for free and you own the game on steam.

Down load the launcher for free, get the tools and use them. How is this an issue?

Nightbird, on 04 November 2020 - 02:44 PM, said:

Yes but Epic makes the Unreal Engine, so if you really wanted to avoid their editor, you should complain about MW5 using UE, not that you can't get their editor from Steam.

PGI doesn't make the UE or Editor, it's was out of their hands as soon as UE got picked for the engine. You're barking up the wrong tree.

There you go using facts and logic.. You realize this is the internet right?

Edited by JC Daxion, 06 March 2021 - 11:22 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

JC Daxion, on 06 March 2021 - 11:18 PM, said:

I'm curious do you also complain if the only way to play a game is on a computer? aka PC exclusive? I always see folks complain about a PS4, or X-box exvlusive, but it seams like PC exclusives are ok, as long as they are not launcher locked. (even though steam has 1k's of games that you can't get any other place, they get a pass)

This program you are talking about is Epics tools, If you can just DL them and use them i don't see what the big issue is. Nothing is stopping you from getting them as long as PGI has it for free and you own the game on steam.

Download the launcher for free, get the tools and use them. How is this an issue?

It's stopping us by asking us to download EGS.

We don't want that **** in our system. That's what their ******** has been about, to get more users in their system. I don't want to play their game against Steam.

If that's the hill PGI wants to die on, to exclude the Steam community for it, I guess let them ******* die.

JC Daxion, on 06 March 2021 - 11:18 PM, said:

Nightbird, on 04 November 2020 - 02:44 PM, said:

Yes but Epic makes the Unreal Engine, so if you really wanted to avoid their editor, you should complain about MW5 using UE, not that you can't get their editor from Steam.

PGI doesn't make the UE or Editor, it's was out of their hands as soon as UE got picked for the engine. You're barking up the wrong tree.

There you go using facts and logic.. You realize this is the internet right?

How's this for fact and logic?

Hat in Time is Unreal Engine, and it has Mod Tools for Steam.

Do you know what that means? It's not the engine, it's the fact that they are too lazy and or incompetent to make their own mod-tools they can share without strings attached from another company.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 06 March 2021 - 11:32 PM.

[LordNothing]

JC Daxion, on 06 March 2021 - 11:18 PM, said:

I'm curious do you also complain if the only way to play a game is on a computer? aka PC exclusive? I always see folks complain about a PS4, or X-box exvlusive, but it seams like PC exclusives are ok, as long as they are not launcher locked. (even though steam has 1k's of games that you can't get any other place, they get a pass)

This program you are talking about is Epics tools, If you can just DL them and use them i don't see what the big issue is. Nothing is stopping you from getting them as long as PGI has it for free and you own the game on steam.

Down load the launcher for free, get the tools and use them. How is this an issue?

its that free word. unless there is an opensource license along with that word, never trust it. hell even then dont trust it until you have the code vetted, but that's not always practical.

i want a world where i can buy and use software anonymously, like it was back in the day. you bought something at the store with cash on the barrel, no names or any personal information is exchanged. you install the software and at most you have to enter the cd key. remember those days? now everyone wants an account for everything and it wants to link up to all your other accounts. always begging for consent to do such and such with your data, and you have no option, you do what they say or you dont get to use the product. even though i got a fist full of dollars.

as for exclusives, they are the devils work. we should be able to transfer our licenses to our preferred service willy nilly. id even be willing to pay the portion the service would have charged the developer. like if a game costs $50 and lets say the steam cut is 15%. id be willing to pay the $7.50 to transfer it. i dont really care if a game comes out on multiple platforms either, but by virtue of me not using those platforms, if it doesnt come out on pc at all, i just wont buy it.

[Lightfoot]

I have Epic Games launcher installed. It's a little clunky, could use more testing. Recently it starts saying, "you are missing a file for Epic Games, please reinstall Epic Games launcher". (Don't do this by the way) But not knowing any better I followed the prompt figuring this will take about 10 minutes. So I reinstall Epic Games launcher, was told I had to uninstall the old install. Okay. Uninstall. Boom! All 300 GB's of games uninstall. No question about whether I wanted to uninstall all Epic games. Just BOOM! 300 hours of downloading for me. Now Steam updates to fix these errors all the time. I don't have to do anything. So yeah, Steam beat Epic Games launcher pretty easily.

[w0qj]

1. That's why some try to buy games from GOG.com so that you actually own your game!

2. So can MW5/MWO fans create MOD's with this GOG/Steam/Xbox situation on May 27th 2021 ?
What's the update situation on MW5 MOD's ?

LordNothing, on 07 March 2021 - 02:35 AM, said:

its that free word. unless there is an opensource license along with that word, never trust it. hell even then dont trust it until you have the code vetted, but that's not always practical.

i want a world where i can buy and use software anonymously, like it was back in the day. you bought something at the store with cash on the barrel, no names or any personal information is exchanged. you install the software and at most you have to enter the cd key. remember those days? now everyone wants an account for everything and it wants to link up to all your other accounts. always begging for consent to do such and such with your data, and you have no option, you do what they say or you dont get to use the product. even though i got a fist full of dollars.

as for exclusives, they are the devils work. we should be able to transfer our licenses to our preferred service willy nilly. id even be willing to pay the portion the service would have charged the developer. like if a game costs $50 and lets say the steam cut is 15%. id be willing to pay the $7.50 to transfer it. i dont really care if a game comes out on multiple platforms either, but by virtue of me not using those platforms, if it doesnt come out on pc at all, i just wont buy it.

Edited by w0qj, 20 March 2021 - 12:18 PM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

In the past, you would buy a programme, e.g. World generator Vue, pay a one-time fee of $200 or $400 for the basic programme, and you could decide which updates you wanted to buy. Now you get a version that is licensed, constantly updated with every update, every additional tool, whether you need it or not, and you have to pay $90 a month for the smallest licence..im hope thats not come for Games ...you not buy CoD for 70$ you buy a License for 30$ in Month

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 21 March 2021 - 08:18 AM.

[DragoonOfWolfs]

I will join in discussion, since i waited this game for ten thousand years.

I'm still not quite sure how can i use those awesome mods like merctech by having steam account. And since workshop there is not even on game page and you need to open it via store page - mods there are gash: couple retwicks and that's it.

I dont want to install EGS and use to to download the thing that may or may not help me installing the mods. I did waited game in steam just for it amazing community to join in on modding of this game. And now it seems like it was a waste.

All these comments "just use EGS and download the thing" are not justifying current situation. Let's say you company that makes milk products.
And you only sell empty milk bottle in one store, then you fill it with milk in other store and put label sticker on filled bottle of milk in third one. Why the f i should go in three different stores to buy one bottle of milk?
Because of this attitude "oh, just go and do as they want, whats the problem" - the problem arises. Companies become more and more bald with their demands. Early access, lootboxes, releases of unfinished and bugged games with patching afterwards, exclusivity deals. This all happens because of such attitude. You let them use you as they want. But you are the customer, you should use them as YOU want. And we want having full game, with full features and modding support in steam

Edited by DragoonOfWolfs, 08 June 2021 - 04:02 AM.

[Leone]

There is no reason to chose modding support for one platform over another, save for monetary considerations. And Epic Games beat out steam on that one. Once the decision is made they're not gonna chance it, but don't worry, the mods'll be available for everyone, so if you don't wanna make mods, just use 'em, then just wait for other modders to get around to it.

~Leone.

[Wildstreak]

Games mentioned are irrelevant.

One uses Unreal Engine 3 while MW5 uses UE4 and UE5 is coming next year.
The other two do not even use UE.

Different versions of the UE work and are treated different thus something made with UE3 is easier to mod than one using UE4.

Personally, I care less, I am more concerned if they do the same with the base game as they did with MWO. Base game has serious issues but unlike MWO, they may just leave modders to fix it which is wrong in my view.

[DragoonOfWolfs]

SomersetStriker, on 09 June 2021 - 10:22 AM, said:

Yeah, Steam has done the same thing but that doesn't count apparently. Its funny you compare a newer store front trying to succeed against one that has been around for over 20 years.

And then there's all the same complaining that Steam went through and probably the same exact people do it all again. Cry about it for 20 years and then its fine lol.

Epic games store is getting better. Steam had a lot of complainers when it came out. A lot of people didn't want to use it. But no one remembers that

So steam had same problems 18 years ago. It evolved during all this time. It became better. It has a lot of useful and quality features.
And EGS instead of taking notes from steam launcher and learn from it - just disregarded it all and made absolute trash of a launcher. Well, seems legit.
And if you are willing to suffer through bad launcher and wait 15 years untill it becomes better, while there already exists good launcher - good for you. Not everyone wants to ride bicycle without wheels and saying it will have them in 20 years, instead of riding bicycle that already has wheels on it

If you trying to enter a competitive market of launchers with such a successor as steam - you better to come up with a launcher that at least as good as there are already. If not better.
And not throw money around expecting people to like you. Yes, i'm talking about you, exclusivity deals and gifting games to users.
There are decent launchers out there like GoG, Uplay, Origin, battlenet. They not as good as steam, but they not as bad as EGS. And they never were as bad as EGS

[Wildstreak]

DragoonOfWolfs, on 10 June 2021 - 02:17 AM, said:

There are decent launchers out there like GoG, Uplay, Origin, battlenet. They not as good as steam, but they not as bad as EGS. And they never were as bad as EGS

Sorry but no some of those launchers got issues too.

GOG's Galaxy really upset a lot of people. There are some people who keep copies of the old installer for the non-Galaxy launcher and found ways to make it work because they do not like Galaxy and especially do not like how everyone was forced to Beta Galaxy without proper information on how to make it work.

UPlay, you are required to have it installed even if you get a Ubi game through another service like Steam so if you run Siege, FarCry or other stuff through Steam, you have to run 2 launchers instead of 1 that comes across as forcing players off Steam and onto UPlay.

There are also people who do not like how they have a game account through one service then want to transfer it for some reason but cannot, they have to rebuy the game, this includes MW5. Compare that to programs like MWO and other online ones where you can open an account one way but transfer for no cost to another service.