283 replies to this topic

[Telthas]

Dear god shorten the drop timer in Solaris! There is no reason it needs to be 2 minutes to play a match that might last 30 secs! I know that there was probably a good reason for it at the start but it just seems annoying.

[Horseman]

Telthas, on 18 November 2020 - 07:32 PM, said:

Dear god shorten the drop timer in Solaris! There is no reason it needs to be 2 minutes to play a match that might last 30 secs! I know that there was probably a good reason for it at the start but it just seems annoying.

The reason was to give more players time to queue, so that the matchmaker has at least a chance to create more equal matches.

[Kaeseblock]

Daeron Katz, on 16 November 2020 - 01:00 PM, said:

• Solution for Faction Play
  
• Solution for Solaris
  
• 8v8 vs 12v12
  
• Solo / Group Queues

What about the following?

Three default queues:

• 12v12 Queue - Solo players only (quick fun matches)
  
• 8v8 Queue - Solo + Groups (1-4 players, 1/1/1/1 requirement), only Conquest, Skirmish and Domination (a bit more competetive for those who like it)
  
• Warfare Queue - 12v12 matches with dropship respawns, Solo + Groups up to 4 players (long fun matches)

This way there are three queues with distinct gameplay feeling and purpose.
Solo Players can queue for the 12v12 and 8v8 Queue at the same time, if they want.

The following Queues are only active during special events:

• Comp Queue (tournaments)
  
• Solaris 7 (Solaris tournaments and events)
  
• Faction Warfare (reinact famous battles/conflicts from the lore, can replace Warfare Queue for the duration of the event, no max. group size)

What do you think about this idea?

Daeron Katz, on 16 November 2020 - 01:00 PM, said:

• Examine Match Scoring (AMS)
  
• Remove 2 Minute Requirement for Reconnection
  
• Private Lobby Updates (More Options, Maps, Host Assignment, More Spectators)
  
• Dailies/Weeklies

Yes, please

[JC Daxion]

I'd love to see a change to Faction play. Use some of the tech that they have in solaris and use it with faction play.

Trigger a new faction match on the hour, and on the half hour. That basically gives everyone time to play a match, then Cue up for the next on completion. Everyone knows when the matches are going to trigger, so instead of sitting in a cue for 30 mins, you can hop into quickplay during that time. (though i would cut off being able to do that at some point to make sure people are out of the match, but most people could easily play 2 matches before that happened as a way to make the wait easier.

Using the solaris style match maker, FW actually becomes "Unit war" Who is the best group out there? Use that to control what the area of space looks like. (this would have nothing to do with wars outside of a visual record of your wins and losses) But it would bring some lore and fun into the FW system. Look, XXX Unit works for Davion and they own 100 planets! People with the same faction tag could be fighting over the same planets ect due to them actually fighting each other.

When the match triggers, top teams play each other, Pug's play each other, Lower ranked teams play each other ect.


I'd also like to see it more event driven. with this system you could run it 24/7 anyway. But give incentives to play during certain hours. Hand out rewards like paint, or faction camo on the mechs you are using. (the way to bring in lore to the system) Give bonuses for being in faction colors/camo. Make a reason for everyone to be dropping on the hour on a friday night bringing population up and making the semi match maker work for this.


I think people would come to the game if there were longer more even games.. and this could be a big part of it.

[Belmenel]

So, what I personally would like to see as a game mode, is an 'endless war' type game mode. Something like the battlefield game modes where each team is trying to hold points, and the game is won by holding the most points for the longest.
It would require new/revamped maps. Some of the bigger maps might work with some effort, but for the most part new maps. Allow joining mid round, and allow specific servers for clans/groups/etc. Matchmaking could work like it does in most modern FPS games of this style. How to make this work? Plenty of options. For one, make respawn times based on the mech you just died in. Popped in a jenner? Yeet back into the fray in seconds. Lost an Atlas? Gotta wait a minute.
Also, mech size determines what spawn points you can use. Want an assault? Spawn at main base. (as per tanks in BF games). Lights spawn wherever. Specifics as to which base can have what spawn are part of how you can balance the maps.
Player count? 12v12 could be okay. If the System can handle it, bigger could be better. Map design could keep murderballs from dominating, if done well.
The ability to have running games, quick spawns, the ability to drop in and out, could be a huge improvement. Lots of pitfalls and mechanics to make it work. Not an easy one to do, but I think it would be worth it.

[Snarkel]

I think most of the bullet points are good things to tackle. I think the only real change I can suggest for game modes is making a majority of them use the drop deck system or a limited respawn system. Currently with the one life system, most game modes don't even matter since its easier to simply wipe the enemy team than to do the objective. And if adding a respawn/drop deck system is out of the question, than please at least just remove Domination entirely. I may be part of a minority here, but in all my time playing this game, Domination just absolutely ruins any fun I'm having because almost all of the maps are just completely unbalanced for Domination, it nearly always boils down to which side of the map the team spawns on. One side always has much better landscapes for cover and vantage points perfect for holding the center while the other team just gets widdled down due to having little to no cover and having awful positioning.

[Firewired]

1. Remove all Groups from the Quick Play queue entirely.

Lance Drop locations would no longer need to be changed, saves developer time resources.

Offer the crying Group players a cockpit item "box of Faction-branded tissues" for their whining. Okay, I might be kidding about the cockpit item... or maybe not...

The game does not need a Group Queue to survive if you make the new player experience easy to play and enjoyable enough to hook new players for the longer term.

Faction Play can fulfill the Group Queue role if it is done properly.

2. Remove Scouting from Faction Play phase rotation, return it to its always-available Faction Play mode, reintroduce tug-of-war awards and include Long Tom. SEE BELOW.

Remove ALL player-based Strikes, period.
- Only Strike available in MWO would be Long Tom, and for Faction Play only.
- Exclude Long Tom strikes from Scouting.
- Decrease the damage that Long Tom does from original values (tweak it over time and feedback).
- Increase the cooldown duration between Long Tom Strikes (tweak it over time and feedback).

Strikes of any kind should instill fear but not hatred and unbalanced gameplay, and if other Strikes are removed or disabled entirely from the game it makes Long Tom Strikes a viable reward for winning the Scouting tug-of-war and something to fear without unbalancing the gameplay mechanics if damage is reduced and cooldown duration increased (tweak it over time with community feedback).

3. Code Quick Play Match Maker to be more sensitive to Tonnage Balance and Unit tags.

Plenty of QP matches have been widely unbalanced tonnage-wise. This should not happen.

Additionally, I see too many drops where 4-man (current max) Groups are dropping and they have one or two more of their same UNIT TAG in the same match on their team. Code it to prevent this please. Either put the spare Unit Tag players on the other team or make them wait (too bad, you want to be in a unit and play together go to Faction please, box of tissues cockpit item for you too).

If we get rid of Groups entirely as per #1 above, that should solve part of the problem, but code Match Maker to read Unit tags and prevent Unit Sync Drops from happening in the same match (preferably) and for sure not on the same team in the same match.

Again, if you do not like it, box of tissues for you, go to Faction Play or Scouting please.

4. Increase the Faction Pay Conquest game mode per-point capped to be greater-than 1250.

I think the original was 1500. I know it was reduced but I cannot recall why.

Most people play a Faction match to fight.

5. Increase the Faction Play Domination counter to 2:00 mins (or more?).

Too many matches end too early due to a cap win. Which, in Quick Play is fine. But not Faction Play.

Most people play a Faction match to fight.

6. Cap the maximum Group Size in Faction Play matches at 6 for all modes except Siege which can remain max of 12. Change the code to read Unit Tags and prevent Unit Sync Drops and read match history for Units co-dropping to dis-incentivize two-by-6 grouping up to become 12 (or prevent back-to-back drops with the same 2 units on the same team). Enable the Group Leader to Select Faction Game Mode.

I think everyone can enjoy Faction Play.

Capping the maximum Group Size to 6 in non-Siege modes allows solo Faction pilots to have impact, and hopefully reduce the 10-12 man groups stomping on pugs too much. Can never really eliminate this, but it can be mitigated somewhat.

Siege mode would still allow for 12-man groups, and allowing the Group Leader to select Siege would probably increase Faction Play population significantly. Still permit Call to Arms and solo players to join, but at least solo pilots would know the Call to Arms meant Siege only.

Maybe change the Call to Arms to be specific - code it to reflect the Faction Game Mode being called for in the pop-up.

In My Opinion, all of the above changes will also improve new player experience as well, and thereby retention of new players.

Edited by Firewired, 19 November 2020 - 11:51 AM.

[Horseman]

Firewired, on 19 November 2020 - 10:17 AM, said:

Lance Drop locations would no longer need to be changed, saves developer time resources.

Wrong. There are several spawns that are in extremely unfavorable locations. Consider the A4 spawn on Frozen City Classic: https://mwo.smurfy-n...ight&m=skirmish

Quote

2. Remove Scouting from Faction Play phase rotation, return it to its always-available Faction Play mode, reintroduce tug-of-war awards and include Long Tom. SEE BELOW.

Long Tom was not good design and should not be reintroduced. This said, having Scouting queue again? a big YES from me.

Quote

3. Code Quick Play Match Maker to be more sensitive to Tonnage Balance and Unit tags.
Plenty of QP matches have been widely unbalanced tonnage-wise. This should not happen.

Tonnage isn't a good performance metric.

Quote

If we get rid of Groups entirely as per #1 above, that should solve part of the problem,

PGI isn't in position to do that, and even if they did it would not solve anything.

Quote

6. Cap the maximum Group Size in Faction Play matches at 6 for all modes except Siege which can remain max of 12. Change the code to read Unit Tags and prevent Unit Sync Drops and read match history for Units co-dropping to dis-incentivize two-by-6 grouping up to become 12 (or prevent back-to-back drops with the same 2 units on the same team). Enable the Group Leader to Select Faction Game Mode.

So first you propose removing groups from quick play and then you want to push them out of Faction Play as well?
And no, selecting game mode would not help. It would make things worse by splitting FP into six different buckets.

Quote

allowing the Group Leader to select Siege would probably increase Faction Play population significantly.

Sorry, but that's a baseless assumption on your part.

[Mycroft000]

Bringing Long Tom back would harm the game immensely. I am on board with removing all air and artillery strikes, this is Mechwarrior Online not Fire Support Warrior Online.

[Big-G]

Mycroft000, on 19 November 2020 - 02:11 PM, said:

Bringing Long Tom back would harm the game immensely. I am on board with removing all air and artillery strikes, this is Mechwarrior Online not Fire Support Warrior Online.

This would in fact make any AOE weapon submission null-in-void...

[Mycroft000]

Big-G, on 19 November 2020 - 02:20 PM, said:

This would in fact make any AOE weapon submission null-in-void...

I have no issue with Mech mounted AOE weapons, but anything else we may as well just all go play MWLL.

[dr3dnought]

• Review / Update Game Modes

Asymmetrical incursion (would require 2 'rounds' so each team attacks and defends). New modes as well

• Solution for Faction Play

I don't play faction much because I'm too busy grinding skill points in quick play so I defer to the FP diehards.

• Solution for Solaris

Solaris needs modes like FFA, KOTH (with respawns) and last-man-standing (no respawns). These would probably need to be unranked. Making it part of an event queue would be fine.

• General Match Maker Improvements

Matchmaker should try to even out PSR and tonnage once a lobby has been made. Groups in soup queue seem to have thrown this out of whack.

• 8v8 vs 12v12

I'm for 8v8 quickplay to speed up matchmaker (I'm in OC region). I believe this should help match quality as well. FP should always be available for 12v12

• Solo / Group Queues

Separate queues would be best if/when we get enough population, but allow solos to opt-in to group queue. If we have 8v8 soup queue then it should be solos and duos only to prevent groups dominating the match. Groups in 12v12 soup queue should probably go to 3 max. FP should always be available for larger groups.

• Examine Match Scoring (AMS)

I'm not really aware of the issues here but AMS probably shouldn't give much match score if any at all.

• Remove 2 Minute Requirement for Reconnection

While this is rarely an issue for me, it sounds like a good idea. Very important that this doesn't encourage disconnect abuse somehow.

• Private Lobby Updates (More Options, Maps, Host Assignment, More Spectators)

I think this is a no-brainer but also fairly low priority.

• Dailies/Weeklies

Something like Warframe's nightwave (free battlepass) would be great. I'd also be interested in a paid battlepass with premium time and extra rewards.

[The6thMessenger]

Kaeseblock, on 19 November 2020 - 12:48 AM, said:

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• 12v12 Queue - Solo players only (quick fun matches)
  
• 8v8 Queue - Solo + Groups (1-4 players, 1/1/1/1 requirement), only Conquest, Skirmish and Domination (a bit more competetive for those who like it)
  
• Warfare Queue - 12v12 matches with dropship respawns, Solo + Groups up to 4 players (long fun matches)

8v8 on Solo, 12v12 on Group + Solo opt-in Queue

[TheGreyWolfe]

Daeron, I again appreciate your time in reading all of the feedback and the effort to compile and organize all of this.

I might be able to offer a contrary view to a lot of people here - encouraging you to look to wider and different approaches.

I only play QP Mode; I played Faction and Solaris just long enough to determine that were both broken (imho) and "not-fun". I may be an outlier - but given that you are looking for "Solutions" to those modes on its face implies that I'm not the only one that thinks these modes are in need of some serious adjustments. I won't go into reasons, as that's off topic, but in their current state I don't think many new players will not be drawn to them.

Ideas to consider:
- A Faction play mode based on Group v Group Tonnage - Allow groups to state their tonnage and then show a list that list in the queue (or auto match with == weight) - allow groups to bid below tonnage for extra challenge. Could add element of defense/offense with the original faction play maps, or make a simpler implementation by using the existing QP maps.

- Make 4v4 Solaris a built in QP option by check box. Allow QP players to choose an "join 4v4 if available" button; as a QP designed mech in a 4v4 match will be much more similar and evenly matched with a 4v4 than single QP player against a Solaris 1v1 mech.

- Open matchmaker to switch on choices of QP/Solaris/Group depending on PSR and desired wait time. This probably would end up being complicated; but the base concept would be to allow the user to select the check marks of "Match By PSR, Match by Solaris" - which would then allow the general player to choose their wait length and style of play and allow the match maker more flexibility and provide more options.

[Voice of Kerensky]

Have a nice day, Daeron.
Yesterday I had a terrible game evening (however, like the day before yesterday, and two days ago, and in general, the overwhelming time of the game for several months already).
Therefore, despite the language barrier, I decided to find this topic on the forum and write a message.
I still insist on separating solo and group queues.
I also continue to insist that the game needs a matchmaker. No, the misunderstanding that is working now is not a matchmaker.
Do it faster.
Yesterday, for example, I had a funny fight in which my team did not have a premade group, but had two or three cadets, and the team of opponents had a premade from fourth 228 guys, and not a single cadet. Tell for you about the results of the match in detail?
And the day before yesterday I had a fight in which my team had three cadets and not a single assault mech, and the enemy team did not have cadets, but had three assault mechs (moreover, at least two of them weighed 100 tons). Since when is one cadet on the first team equal to one hundred-ton mech on the second team?
Does the management generally understand how difficult it is in such conditions to earn 72,800 xp for pumping only one mech?
I have a lot of screenshots of the results of battles, the terrible result of which was caused by the lack of adequate work of the matchmaker (largely, by the way, precisely because of the combined solo and group queue).
Maybe I should share of these scrinshots? There is already so much material accumulated that it is possible to arrange a real spam-attack. Maybe then the management will finally understand in what conditions ordinary players are forced to exist at the moment? Since the management itself does not want to consume what they offer other people, maybe there is some opportunity to convey this information to them in all colors? It's a pity that you can't attach emotions to screenshots.
And a lot of negative emotions have already accumulated. It becomes very difficult to restrain oneself within the bounds of decency from receiving such "pleasure" for a long time.

I am sorry for the emotionality.

Upd.

P.S. Consider giving people a choice of mech just before dropping onto the map in quick play (as in FP). Let the choice be limited to the tonnage of your current mech.
It's hard to think of anything worse than falling into battle on the polar highlands in a mech with a close build. Especially when almost all of your team went into battle on close builds, but there were a couple of people on LRM/ERPPC/ERLL/AC2 with a multiplier of 10-12 who decided that they had the right to condemn the whole team to suffering because of their whim. At the same time, they themselves also suffer defeat.

Edited by Voice of Kerensky, 20 November 2020 - 12:24 AM.

[Anomalocaris]

Your english may be passable, but your point was crystal clear

[Sheridan Mackison]

24 mech capture the facility non-combat mode...Two teams, the goal being to be the first team to capture a strategic facility such as a mech factory or research lab. You can destroy bridges or cause landslides to slow the other team but get penalties for directly destroying a mech.

[Voice of Kerensky]

Anomalocaris

Thanks.
I apologize if I am not speaking very nicely.
It is quite difficult to communicate in a foreign language, especially when there is so much to say and on different topics.

[LordNothing]

Galahad2030, on 16 November 2020 - 08:10 PM, said:

Solaris interface is like an RTS. You end up clicking on each division mech (7 of them) looking for one that has competitors in it.

I tried Solaris in between QP matches, and it was a very busy clicking experience, and after awhile tiring to experience.

I agree with the idea of a join first available queue button in Solaris.

solaris needs a single button join solution. also a simple mm for 2v2 with its own insti-join button.

[Kaeseblock]

Voice of Kerensky, on 19 November 2020 - 07:20 PM, said:

P.S. Consider giving people a choice of fur just before dropping onto the map in quick play (as in FP). Let the choice be limited to the tonnage of your current mech.
It's hard to think of anything worse than falling into battle on the polar highlands in a mech with a close build. Especially when almost all of your team went into battle on close builds, but there were a couple of people on LRM/ERPPC/ERLL/AC2 with a multiplier of 10-12 who decided that they had the right to condemn the whole team to suffering because of their whim. At the same time, they themselves also suffer defeat.

Good point. It's always annoying having a brawler on polar highlands. An alternative here would also be to add more cover that brawlers can use to escape the LRM rain when approaching.