53 replies to this topic

[Valdarion Silarius]

Steel Claws, on 22 November 2020 - 01:58 PM, said:

Here is the reality, brawling builds promote the current nascar mentality.

Yes and No. PGI encourages brawling with a majority of the mechs in the game since most weapon systems in MW:O are designed for close quarter combat. It's stupid really, and I think we are overdue alot of unnerfing of many of the weapon systems that are in this game. I like the way how MW:LL did their range values, and I think PGI should at least experiment by increasing the effective ranges of many of the short ranged weapon systems in this game.

The Nascar mentality comes from players not thinking properly and it becomes a crowd herd mentality of chasing the enemy's tail. If you have a good team that listens to you over mic or text chat when to turn around during a Nascar, they will often find how deadly and effective a fire line formation is when an enemy team wants to feed mechs to your team one by one. Nascar can be avoided if you have a game plan before a match and if you properly inform everyone what you want to do beforehand via communication. You still have your ignorant bunch but about half of my matches, people from my experience are willing to listen to a game plan before a match starts.

[R Valentine]

Hazeclaw, on 22 November 2020 - 02:05 PM, said:

srms and mrms already have terrible spread

quick play is for people to learn to ball up and run around together, it's not surprising high dps brawly stuff is good in this environment

if you're looking for gameplay different than that you can play comp or faction play

Brawling isn't bad in comp at all. RJF has basically run the entire tournament brawl heavy, with only just enough trade mechs to not get farmed on their way in. Plenty of IS units run only brawl decks for all 4 waves and see good success. NSR is good no matter the setting right now.

[Brauer]

Kiran Yagami, on 01 December 2020 - 06:31 AM, said:

Brawling isn't bad in comp at all. RJF has basically run the entire tournament brawl heavy, with only just enough trade mechs to not get farmed on their way in. Plenty of IS units run only brawl decks for all 4 waves and see good success. NSR is good no matter the setting right now.

RJF have primarily been skirmishing though. MPLs aren't really pure brawl. And pure brawl is okay right now, but it's not super strong. IS MPLs are of course extremely strong and can kind of brawl, but most of the time teams use them to whittle opponents down with coordinated peeks, rather than diving in full on like you do with most srm and true brawl builds

[The pessimistic optimist]

Depends on the brawler. If it a Clan or IS Orion with Ultra 20 and 4xSRM6 maybe some lasers or the clan one carrying two AC 10 and some SRMs. Other mechs can do it well right weapons and mechs people duh

[R Valentine]

Brauer, on 01 December 2020 - 07:25 AM, said:

RJF have primarily been skirmishing though. MPLs aren't really pure brawl. And pure brawl is okay right now, but it's not super strong. IS MPLs are of course extremely strong and can kind of brawl, but most of the time teams use them to whittle opponents down with coordinated peeks, rather than diving in full on like you do with most srm and true brawl builds

That's only true for the unquirked mechs, but enough IS mechs have mega-armor quirks to make a full on push more than effective. It's not really the weapons that are the problem, but IS mechs that simply don't need quirks anymore. The IV4 is one of many overly-tank offenders, and the engine desync ensured that even unquirked IS mechs can be nimble enough to simply out maneuver their slower, clunkier clan counter-parts. Clan MPL is virtually non-existent, while IS MPL is used in abundance, but again that isn't the fault of the IS MPL itself. It's that any competition has been obliterated.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Kiran Yagami, on 01 December 2020 - 07:38 AM, said:

That's only true for the unquirked mechs, but enough IS mechs have mega-armor quirks to make a full on push more than effective. It's not really the weapons that are the problem, but IS mechs that simply don't need quirks anymore. The IV4 is one of many overly-tank offenders, and the engine desync ensured that even unquirked IS mechs can be nimble enough to simply out maneuver their slower, clunkier clan counter-parts. Clan MPL is virtually non-existent, while IS MPL is used in abundance, but again that isn't the fault of the IS MPL itself. It's that any competition has been obliterated.

Orion can really be a poor mans Atlas if used right and yes the Clan one to little less armor way more fire power. I use clan med pulse right mech right build once more

Edited by SirSmokes, 01 December 2020 - 07:44 AM.

[R Valentine]

SirSmokes, on 01 December 2020 - 07:41 AM, said:

Orion can really be a poor mans Atlas if used right and yes the Clan one to little less armor way more fire power. I use clan med pulse right mech right build once more

You're smoking the dirtiest of dope if you think IS quirks and agility vs clan quirkless and no agility is OK, or if you think IS MPL vs clan MPL is ok. Pilot what you like, but that doesn't change the situation. My argument still stands.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Kiran Yagami, on 01 December 2020 - 08:24 AM, said:

You're smoking the dirtiest of dope if you think IS quirks and agility vs clan quirkless and no agility is OK, or if you think IS MPL vs clan MPL is ok. Pilot what you like, but that doesn't change the situation. My argument still stands.

Well I want to redo the skill tree quirks and rescale and I say yes redo clan agility in the skill tree just for clans

Edited by SirSmokes, 01 December 2020 - 08:26 AM.

[R Valentine]

SirSmokes, on 01 December 2020 - 08:26 AM, said:

Well I want to redo the skill tree quirks and rescale and I say yes redo clan agility in the skill tree just for clans

The clan agility baseline values are the problem, not the tree. There is no meaningful percentage you can give clan mechs that won't either be straight OP or absolutely useless. All quirks are percentage based. 1.2x garbage = still garbage.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Kiran Yagami, on 01 December 2020 - 08:37 AM, said:

The clan agility baseline values are the problem, not the tree. There is no meaningful percentage you can give clan mechs that won't either be straight OP or absolutely useless. All quirks are percentage based. 1.2x garbage = still garbage.

Thing you are missing the point is it can still be fix with a better skill tree a look at baseline values and yes quirks. It can be done

Edited by SirSmokes, 01 December 2020 - 08:56 AM.

[R Valentine]

SirSmokes, on 01 December 2020 - 08:39 AM, said:

Think you are missing the point is it can still be fix with a better skill tree a look at baseline values and yes quirks. It can be done

The tree isn't the problem, though. That's the point you're missing. Is the skill tree garbage? Yes. Will fixing it fix clan mech agility? No. Those two are unrelated. It wasn't skill tree that broke clan agility. It was engine desync.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Kiran Yagami, on 01 December 2020 - 08:56 AM, said:

The tree isn't the problem, though. That's the point you're missing. Is the skill tree garbage? Yes. Will fixing it fix clan mech agility? No. Those two are unrelated. It wasn't skill tree that broke clan agility. It was engine desync.

Why I say fix the garbage tree the quirks base agility speeds and the scale nothing happen in a vacuum. You lack imagination all the tools to fix the games problems are right here just need to be used. First yea the skill tree is boring fix that and yes some mechs suck and other are great some times is just good hard points and clan tech or other times it IS mechs with good quirks or just good hard points not all good IS mechs are quirked up. Some mechs are too big Blackknight poor bugger too tall and wide. Some omi's engines are too big making it hard to make good builds. A lot of this could be fix if they took a ground up look at everything. The mechs the quirks the skill tree the mech scale the omi mech quirks come on

Edited by SirSmokes, 01 December 2020 - 09:02 AM.

[R Valentine]

SirSmokes, on 01 December 2020 - 09:02 AM, said:

Why I say fix the garbage tree the quirks base agility speeds and the scale nothing happen in a vacuum. You lack imagination all the tools to fix the games problems are right here just need to be used. First yea the skill tree is boring fix that and yes some mechs suck and other are great some times is just good hard points and clan tech or other times it IS mechs with good quirks or just good hard points not all good IS mechs are quirked up. Some mechs are too big Blackknight poor bugger too tall and wide. Some omi's engines are too big making it hard to make good builds. A lot of this could be fix if they took a ground up look at everything. The mechs the quirks the skill tree the mech scale the omi mech quirks come on

It's not a lack of imagination to say clan mechs should be agile on their own, without the skill tree. Requiring skills to make mechs playable is asinine. The same with their weapon systems. The cMPL shouldn't be garbage without skills anymore than the IS MPL should be. Skill tree is a separate issue.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Kiran Yagami, on 02 December 2020 - 06:40 AM, said:

It's not a lack of imagination to say clan mechs should be agile on their own, without the skill tree. Requiring skills to make mechs playable is asinine. The same with their weapon systems. The cMPL shouldn't be garbage without skills anymore than the IS MPL should be. Skill tree is a separate issue.

I never said that I said let look at that and fix the clan mechs base agility if that is a problem and then look at the skill tree and other things and not look at this in a vacuum with everything in there own air tight little bubble

[Swamp Ass MkII]

Then position yourself, and your team to not get stuck in the Nascar. A brawler can easily be knocked down at range, if you can aim... I can't, but have been knocked down! lol... Use UAV's with full skills, and guessed locations to place airstrikes.

UAVs you see them coming, and airstrikes, if placed right, can hurt a lot of enemies at the tend to line up when nascar'ing.

Form a firing line at the counter, and don't run when getting shot at! ie: Assault up front, heavies in the mix of assaults, and medium and light flankers, and counter flankers. A brawling team can be stopped... Hell, any team can be stopped. Quit running away when you plaint is being scratched, unless you're a light, then you run like hell!!!

[The pessimistic optimist]

Swamp *** MkII, on 02 December 2020 - 10:21 AM, said:

Then position yourself, and your team to not get stuck in the Nascar. A brawler can easily be knocked down at range, if you can aim... I can't, but have been knocked down! lol... Use UAV's with full skills, and guessed locations to place airstrikes.

UAVs you see them coming, and airstrikes, if placed right, can hurt a lot of enemies at the tend to line up when nascar'ing.

Form a firing line at the counter, and don't run when getting shot at! ie: Assault up front, heavies in the mix of assaults, and medium and light flankers, and counter flankers. A brawling team can be stopped... Hell, any team can be stopped. Quit running away when you plaint is being scratched, unless you're a light, then you run like hell!!!

Like most things things have strengths and weaknesses. So brawling is good but not too good

[MW Waldorf Statler]

The People votes Donald Trump or plays Nascar

[VgerRD]

LordNothing, on 23 November 2020 - 08:30 PM, said:

a lot of the problems with nascar and range mismatch is due to the fact that you cant switch mechs after the map is known. you almost never see these kinds of problems in fp where you can change/tweak your decks before the game starts. game needs vote screen mech select (limited to same weight class/tonnage/chassis whatever doesn't screw with the mm).

Nerf the potato, embrace the rotato.

Do away with the C-Bill sink that is changing artemis or ferro armor or endo steel (do we not have storage to keep these things for the future if we need them again? Where do we store weapons and ammo that we swap out?) Then, implement a drop ship type mechanic where a MechWarrior can load 4 different loadouts for a particular 'Mech and choose between them after the map has been decided. Also, make it so that when we save a 'Mech loadout, the skill tree is saved to that particular loadout. Easy Peasy.

[LordNothing]

VgerRD, on 03 December 2020 - 09:38 PM, said:

Nerf the potato, embrace the rotato.

Do away with the C-Bill sink that is changing artemis or ferro armor or endo steel (do we not have storage to keep these things for the future if we need them again? Where do we store weapons and ammo that we swap out?) Then, implement a drop ship type mechanic where a MechWarrior can load 4 different loadouts for a particular 'Mech and choose between them after the map has been decided. Also, make it so that when we save a 'Mech loadout, the skill tree is saved to that particular loadout. Easy Peasy.

nascar is still better than no strategy at all. sure beats scattering to the four winds any day. not as good as setting up a firing line and covering each other, but its better than nothing.

dont see how cbill sink relates to nascar in any way shape or form. the game is full of grognards with hundreds of millions of cbills and yet many of them nascar. and nobody likes the cbill sink upgrades, not even me and i got 600 million cbills. its an f2p game, there needs to be a few annoying things or people wouldnt buy mechpacks. would you like to buy a mechpack?

Edited by LordNothing, 03 December 2020 - 11:07 PM.

[VgerRD]

LordNothing, on 03 December 2020 - 11:06 PM, said:

nascar is still better than no strategy at all. sure beats scattering to the four winds any day. not as good as setting up a firing line and covering each other, but its better than nothing.

dont see how cbill sink relates to nascar in any way shape or form. the game is full of grognards with hundreds of millions of cbills and yet many of them nascar. and nobody likes the cbill sink upgrades, not even me and i got 600 million cbills. its an f2p game, there needs to be a few annoying things or people wouldnt buy mechpacks. would you like to buy a mechpack?

It's clear you didn't read my post.