113 replies to this topic

[Ken Harkin]

Having played since 2014, both with and without groups, I can say I overwhelmingly prefer with groups. For almost an entire year the start of this month I had been solo dropping as my old unit had pretty much scattered to the winds. I ran into the NUC1 guys, got an invite to join and drop almost every day now with them. I play FAR MORE now that I have a group I meet up with on discord. We split into groups of no more than four to conform with the match maker unless doing faction drops, which I hadn't done for a year.

Sometimes we win. Sometimes we lose. We often see opponents with the same unit tags so we know we are running into other groups if the drops.

Get rid of groups and the ability to get relatively quick matches and the game dies.

[Anomalocaris]

Ken Harkin, on 30 November 2020 - 09:18 AM, said:

Get rid of groups and the ability to get relatively quick matches and the game dies.

It didn't die when you guys had a group queue and didn't play it. It won't die now if we go back to that. Participation did drop substantially after the first month of mixed queue, so facts suggest the opposite of your conclusion might be true though....

[RickySpanish]

Groups are fine, learn to play lads. Sometimes they screw you with daft weight combinations, but usually it's a fairly even match between groups on either side. Eejits running off into the mists, chasing lights or massed cadet stacks are much worse.

[Anomalocaris]

RickySpanish, on 30 November 2020 - 01:08 PM, said:

Groups are fine, learn to play lads. Sometimes they screw you with daft weight combinations, but usually it's a fairly even match between groups on either side. Eejits running off into the mists, chasing lights or massed cadet stacks are much worse.

Got any data on that? Cause I'm pretty sure group PSR isn't taken into account.

And Git Gud arguments are by definition invalid when discussing matchmaking issues.

[General Solo]

RickySpanish, on 30 November 2020 - 01:08 PM, said:

Groups are fine, learn to play lads.

What do you mean?

Groups are Fine clubbing soloes? ChecK

Groups are Fine playing other groups? FW/Group/scouting Queues Dead? BIG NOPE.

So Looks like Groups are NOT FINE playing other groups

Lad

They should learn to play or pray (For Guid Match making)

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 30 November 2020 - 02:59 PM.

[MultiKill401]

OZHomerOZ, on 30 November 2020 - 02:56 PM, said:

What do you mean?

Groups are Fine clubbing soloes? ChecK

Groups are Fine playing other groups? FW/Group/scouting Queues Dead? BIG NOPE.

So Looks like Groups are NOT FINE playing other groups

Lad

They should learn to play or pray (For Guid Match making)

What did you mean by this?

[Gagis]

OZHomerOZ, on 30 November 2020 - 02:56 PM, said:

Groups are Fine playing other groups? FW/Group/scouting Queues Dead? BIG NOPE.

This keeps coming up time and time again so lets set something straight.

Group Queue was dead not because groups hate playing fair, but because the matchmaker was even worse than the Quick Play matchmaker.

Lets have a hypothetical scenario. There are two groups in Group Queue. One consists of 12 players. The other consists of 8 players. You join the queue with a group of 5 players.

The game does not launch. 8+5=13!=12. Every group in the queue continues to watch the searching circle.

None of the groups have any information about how many other groups there are in the queue. Maybe they are alone? Maybe they would have a game in the next 5 seconds if they just wait a little bit more? No one knows. Maybe a a group of 7 eventually joins the queue and one match launches.

The group of 8 remains looking at the Searching circle.

The group has been in queue for the past 30 minutes. They have no idea if anyone else has even looked at Group Queue in those 30 minutes. They close the game and don't try again for the next 3 months.

This is how GQ died. Absolutely nothing to do with bad sportsmanship or anything other than the system being broken in a way that makes it really REALLY unpleasant to get into a game.

You simply could not just group up with friends and play in the Group Queue.

Edited by Gagis, 30 November 2020 - 04:02 PM.

[RickySpanish]

OZHomerOZ, on 30 November 2020 - 02:56 PM, said:

What do you mean?

Groups are Fine clubbing soloes? ChecK

Groups are Fine playing other groups? FW/Group/scouting Queues Dead? BIG NOPE.

So Looks like Groups are NOT FINE playing other groups

Lad

They should learn to play or pray (For Guid Match making)

I don't feel like I get clubbed as a solo all that often. When a team loses I feel like it's due to their own bad play, instead of some gank squad on the other side. Sometimes there are stomps when very good players group up but oh well, if they're the best then what exactly can the match maker do, exclude them completely?

[General Solo]

MultiKill401, on 30 November 2020 - 03:58 PM, said:

What did you mean by this?

Dude you have played two seasons

So I will give the short version.

MWO comprised of two solo queue and at least 4 Group Queues:

Solo Queues: SOLO QUEUE and Soloaris 1v1
Group Queues: GROUP QUEUE, Faction Warfare, Faction Scouting and Solaris 2v2

None of the Group Queues have faired well and none bar Faction Warfare really survives to this day.
Can you call Soloaris 2v2 Surviving?

SOLO QUEUE has been by a very large margin the most successful Queue.

The only successful queue was stupidly merged allowing premade groups of 4 to join it.
Putting a big wrench in the most successfull queue.

Using the solo player base as food for the premade group player playbase instead of doing match maker every where right.
Its cheaper

And makes me very angry

Personally I don't give a rats.
But for the longevity of the game such a dumb decision makes me seethe with rage.

If the game does down, I don't get to play it.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 30 November 2020 - 08:17 PM.

[General Solo]

Gagis, on 30 November 2020 - 04:01 PM, said:

This keeps coming up time and time again so lets set something straight.

Group Queue was dead not because groups hate playing fair, but because the matchmaker was even worse than the Quick Play matchmaker.

Dude we agree on something but I gotta set you straight.

What does dead groupish type queues got to do with groups hate playing fair.
The Group type queues are Dead, yes for reasons
Which may or maybe not involve groups hate playing fair
Doh you could be on to something their.
Please explain?


Yes any dead queue is mostly dead because of match maker or lack of or a bad match maker or a neglected good match maker or a match maker thats not doing its job.

Didn't stop premads using skillgap against soloes and weaker groups and go clubbing due to lack of guid matchmaker.

Did they go to the forums back in the (Hey) day and mention skillgap, Matchmaking. NOPE! Of course not


ITS FINE, KEEP PLAYING,
MATCHMAKER! Pff
GETGUID SCRUB


I remember those days on the forums, many have now changed their tune, probably too late to make a difference?

Now the rest of us and the game have to live will PGI's descision to not really care about its customers or matchmaking just monetizing mech packs and premads decisions to go clubbing.


We all now reaping all that was sown before.

I'm just saying if groups really wanted to play other groups why are all the group type queues the less viable queues.

Now that hypopathical stuff you mentioned.

Pff, Premades trying to tell me why group type queues or any queues for that matter are dead!

If a premade had a clue their queues wouldn't be dead.

Would they!

smh

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 30 November 2020 - 08:58 PM.

[General Solo]

RickySpanish, on 30 November 2020 - 04:11 PM, said:

I don't feel like I get clubbed as a solo all that often. When a team loses I feel like it's due to their own bad play, instead of some gank squad on the other side. Sometimes there are stomps when very good players group up but oh well, if they're the best then what exactly can the match maker do, exclude them completely?

Match maker could divide such Lords of the battlefield equally on each side.

You get EMP

Then we get the next 8 best pilots

And you get the 8 worst pilots. Edit:( Not to punish but to equal PSR delta)

It's an idea, maybe not a good but its more than PGI are thinking about match maker.

Matchmatcker is why the game will sink.

Match maker is like a small leak in a boat.
In a big boat you don't notice it much, due to mech pack monitization

But once enough water had entered the big boat to almost fill it
Fixing the small leak now will not save the boat.

Gotta remove the bad water
And theirs lots of it.

EditIIC: Unless you have a special patch for your leak that can cope with low population levels!
Thats about it

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 01 December 2020 - 12:29 AM.

[DarkofFox]

Group queues died due to low population -> long queue times, as well as a non existent matchmaker. Casual groups got stomped in a consistent manner when matched with groups of 8+ or even smaller groups. Casual groups of friends don't want to play a game where they spend the vast majority of the time in queue or dead. The same problems lie with solo-queue players, but somehow PSR used to actually affect solo-queue.

Simply being matched with a group on the enemy team is not an auto-loss, and it is not all that significant compared to the more important factors in game-outcome being skill, tonnage, map, and positioning. It matters a whole lot more if the enemy team has four less assaults than your team, than it does if the enemy team has a group of four. Quick play is designed for people to be able to play shorter matches, without long queue times, and a reasonable balance between both teams. That balance isn't significantly disrupted by groups of 4 or less, and possibly could be disrupted by more than 8. What would make more sense, is reducing the match size, and attempting to balance skill, while still allowing larger groups. Presumably the reason why tier 1 players get matched with tier 4 players is that we lack the numbers of tier 1 players to match in games, making matches smaller would help tighten that gap. Additionally, adjusting tonnage in quick match would be nice, given that the sheer number of heavier mechs in a match makes playing lighter mechs much less enjoyable. Its not all that enjoyable to experience getting stomped by a mech with more tonnage than you by a factor of 2.

[K O Z A K]

OZHomerOZ, on 30 November 2020 - 08:47 PM, said:

Match maker could divide such Lords of the battlefield equally on each side.

You get EMP

Then we get the next 8 best pilots

And you get the 8 worst pilots.

It's an idea, maybe not a good but its more than PGI are thinking about match maker.

Matchmatcker is why the game will sink.

Match maker is like a small leak in a boat.
In a big boat you don't notice it much, due to mech pack monitization

But once enough water had entered the big boat to almost fill it
Fixing the small leak now will not save the boat.

Gotta remove the bad water
And theirs lots of it.

how do you measure "emp", "best pilots", "worst pilots" ?

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Bigbacon, on 27 November 2020 - 06:51 AM, said:

ABSOLUTELY RUIN this game.

4 man drops just ruin this game....sorry.

if you guys make this 8v8 (which I hope you don't) it will be even worse.

YOU WILL KILL the game. Such a waste of time to play a 3 min round because some organized 4 man just destroys you. You wait longer than you get to play.

groups should be no more than 2.

its like other PvP games, war Thunder or CoD warzone, with a bad Team no Chance

[General Solo]

OZHomerOZ, on 30 November 2020 - 08:47 PM, said:

Match maker could divide such Lords of the battlefield equally on each side.

You get EMP

Then we get the next 8 best pilots

And you get the 8 worst pilots.

It's an idea, maybe not a good but its more than PGI are thinking about match maker.

Matchmatcker is why the game will sink.

Match maker is like a small leak in a boat.
In a big boat you don't notice it much, due to mech pack monitization

But once enough water had entered the big boat to almost fill it
Fixing the small leak now will not save the boat.

Gotta remove the bad water
And theirs lots of it.

Hazeclaw, on 30 November 2020 - 10:31 PM, said:

how do you measure "emp", "best pilots", "worst pilots" ?

PSR ma Dude

Its the only measure of skill we got

At the least use it right/guid

Edit:
When MM checks the list of online/PressedSearch/available pilots they can be sorted by PSR
The idea is to put together two teams with equal PSR.
So if a strong 4 man is on one team
You need to counter that
To equalize PSR of both sides ... ez

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 01 December 2020 - 12:36 AM.

[General Solo]

DarkofFox, on 30 November 2020 - 09:30 PM, said:

Group queues died due to low population -> long queue times, as well as a non existent matchmaker. Casual groups got stomped in a consistent manner when matched with groups of 8+ or even smaller groups. Casual groups of friends don't want to play a game where they spend the vast majority of the time in queue or dead. The same problems lie with solo-queue players, but somehow PSR used to actually affect solo-queue.

Simply being matched with a group on the enemy team is not an auto-loss, and it is not all that significant compared to the more important factors in game-outcome being skill, tonnage, map, and positioning. It matters a whole lot more if the enemy team has four less assaults than your team, than it does if the enemy team has a group of four. Quick play is designed for people to be able to play shorter matches, without long queue times, and a reasonable balance between both teams. That balance isn't significantly disrupted by groups of 4 or less, and possibly could be disrupted by more than 8. What would make more sense, is reducing the match size, and attempting to balance skill, while still allowing larger groups. Presumably the reason why tier 1 players get matched with tier 4 players is that we lack the numbers of tier 1 players to match in games, making matches smaller would help tighten that gap. Additionally, adjusting tonnage in quick match would be nice, given that the sheer number of heavier mechs in a match makes playing lighter mechs much less enjoyable. Its not all that enjoyable to experience getting stomped by a mech with more tonnage than you by a factor of 2.

Dude I'm fine with groups
Smash em all the time
But is the game, is it FINE?


Keep playing!

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 01 December 2020 - 01:29 AM.

[General Solo]

Also Match maker dont work if admin keeps messing with it coz they got an email or persistant emails from one small sub set of the community
Pro Top
Block em
(Edit: or have a policy for responding to such and stick to it universally, don't let appeasement guide your path, doh wise counsel should be considered.)

Edit: Instead Monitor the situation over time instead of being overly reactive, Match makers need time to do they workz.
Some won't be happy.
but its for the greater good.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 01 December 2020 - 01:33 AM.

[General Solo]

In essense

You gotta get a small population to a large population with a match maker made for a large population!

So if said Large Population match maker is abissmal at small populations.

You may never get to a large population due to the large population match maker's ineffectiveness at small populations.
True Story!
Trust moi , I'm a dentist

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 01 December 2020 - 02:00 AM.

[Kroete]

OZHomerOZ, on 30 November 2020 - 08:38 PM, said:

Which may or maybe not involve groups hate playing fair
Doh you could be on to something their.
Please explain?
....
Didn't stop premads using skillgap against soloes and weaker groups and go clubbing due to lack of guid matchmaker.

And we still see groups syncdropping more then 4 in a match.
Seems both is true.

[General Solo]

Kroete, on 01 December 2020 - 03:08 AM, said:

And we still see groups syncdropping more then 4 in a match.
Seems both is true.

So groups wanna play groups?

I'm Joking

I'm with you