40 replies to this topic

[Omigir]

Ok, so I was thinking. *watches as pitchforks and torches slowly appear in the audience.*

Whoa whoa! Hold it now, you super simulators will like this.
So I was mulling over the mechlab in my head and I know there are a few topics out there both in suggestion as well here in GD. And really, what I am about to bring up is more of a general discussion kind of deal, thus this is in the GD section.
So back on track: I was thinking about the mechlab, and if there is a full on mechlab, rear facing weapons will not exist, but what will happen to those variants that come with rear facing weapons?

I know I as a pilot have 0 use for a rear facing weapon, and so rarely step into anything bigger than 65 tons that I won’t ever really need one. Are there you pilots out there that want this? Flippable arms and rear facing weapons? Will a single rear facing M-Laser be able to really fend off a rabid 40 ton mech trying to chew your rump off?

So what say ye? Do rear facing weapons have a real purpose in MWO other than just a novelty of lore?

[Dayuhan]

I think Rear-facing weapons can be useful for Assault 'mechs. Except for a few exceptions the top speed for most assaults is around 64 kph with a combat speed of around 42 kph - they are not fast in other words. And even taking into consideration torso twists that still leaves your back exposed to someone when you are in close-quarter combat. It can be useful to have something back there to, even a lowly Medium Laser, to dissuade someone from getting to close.

[Lucifer Balor]

The logistic nightmare of how to make them work aside, I've never been a fan myself. Though, the lore explanation for them on the wildly popular Madcat-D kinda makes sense. That being said, I almost never use them in tabletop play either, and I imagine they'll probably handle it the same way they have in the past: just flip them into a forward facing.

[MuffinTop]

Omigir, on 29 December 2011 - 10:08 AM, said:

Ok, so I was thinking. *watches as pitchforks and torches slowly appear in the audience.*

Whoa whoa! Hold it now, you super simulators will like this.
So I was mulling over the mechlab in my head and I know there are a few topics out there both in suggestion as well here in GD. And really, what I am about to bring up is more of a general discussion kind of deal, thus this is in the GD section.
So back on track: I was thinking about the mechlab, and if there is a full on mechlab, rear facing weapons will not exist, but what will happen to those variants that come with rear facing weapons?

I know I as a pilot have 0 use for a rear facing weapon, and so rarely step into anything bigger than 65 tons that I won’t ever really need one. Are there you pilots out there that want this? Flippable arms and rear facing weapons? Will a single rear facing M-Laser be able to really fend off a rabid 40 ton mech trying to chew your rump off?

So what say ye? Do rear facing weapons have a real purpose in MWO other than just a novelty of lore?

Yeah I would be nervous about mob justice my friend. I for one would only like them on a scout mech due to the fact you maybe solo or horribly outnumbered in a OHHHH **** firefight. Thats all I can think of right now with my TECHNICOLOR imagination.

[Shadowstarr]

I only mech game i've played that had them in was mpbt: solaris. Never really thought much of them for the most part, that was untill there was a assault match. Was a 4 on 4 all players various mechs i had a battlemaster i beleive. anyways came down to just two of us left My mech was stripped of everything sides the rear firing meds and my foe knew it. He was is terrible shape too, but still had a lrm and a few lasers left. His CT was all matter of red like mine. In solaris there was drek for cover yet I was able to get a touch of distance from the stalker bearing down on me using a hill. It shielded me from its range till I had him in my range. As he came over the edge of the little hill i fired off the rear meds and finished em.

From that point on I'm a fan of em. My only conern is if you could say mount a rear firing ppc on a cicadia to kite with.

Edited by Shadowstarr, 29 December 2011 - 11:02 AM.

[Orzorn]

Shadowstarr, on 29 December 2011 - 10:59 AM, said:

From that point on I'm a fan of em. My only conern is if you could say mount a rear firing ppc on a cicadia to kite with.

I imagine that you would only be able to put a rear facing weapon on a mech with a variant that already HAS a rear facing weapon, unless we get a mechlab like that of Mechwarrior 2 and 3 where I can make insane mechs out of whatever I want.

On the matter of rear facing weapons, it seems that the artists already disagree with us, because the rear-facing medium laser on the Dragon is clearly facing forward in the concept art.

As for myself, I would love to see rear-facing weapons implemented. I think the firing mechanism could be as easy as putting a crosshair on your rear-view. Switch to your rear-facing weapon, switch to your rear-view, aim the crosshair, and fire. Simple.

Edited by Orzorn, 29 December 2011 - 11:13 AM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

I've actually made use of rear facing weapons in TT, as well as the flipping arms..and had them used on me as well, rather effectively I might add. Had a 30 tonner get cored when I jumped in behind a Warhammer, forgetting all about those nasty PPCs that can be flipped over..

How'd they make it work in MWO..probably the same way they did in MW1 and MPBT Solaris, rear view camera with a reticule for those weapons, worked fine.

[Tannhauser Gate]

Correct me if Im wrong, rear mounted weapons are limited and typically for lighter threats like infantry. As much as I want to see TROish configs and combined arms (and an infantry ground game) I’m pretty sure players will consider rear mounted weapons as wasted tonnage.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Archer has 2 ML's which tend to discourage light mechs. It also helps if you get into a circle strafe.If your quick enough you can sometimes get a mech behind you firing at someone else in a furball. I can see pro's & con's and am happy to leave it up to the dev's. (As long as a Whammy can still arm flip )

[Orzorn]

LakeDaemon, on 29 December 2011 - 11:43 AM, said:

Correct me if Im wrong, rear mounted weapons are limited and typically for lighter threats like infantry. As much as I want to see TROish configs and combined arms (and an infantry ground game) I’m pretty sure players will consider rear mounted weapons as wasted tonnage.

Some mechs like the http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Quickdraw mount a significant number of rear-facing weapons. The same goes for the Archer, which mounts two medium lasers in its rear.

But yes, in some cases (such as mechs with rear-facing small lasers), it would be difficult to justify those to players if we're only taking out other mechs.

[Kenyon Burguess]

i would seriously consider a rear mounted ac20 at waist level on a assault mech if it was possible.

[Kurohyou]

Wolfhound has a medium laser rear-facing. Rear-facing weapons allow you to continue firing on a target as you move by it,

Edited by Kurohyou, 29 December 2011 - 01:25 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Rear armor being so weak in BTech and positioning being so important, rear firing weapons are to be expected. Some Mechs are designed with actual rear mounted weapons, others have arms that can flip over and fire directly into the rear flank areas. I see no reason why that shouldn't be retained in MWO, it's been done in previous BTech games for the computer, so it's obviously not that hard to do

How useful it is..well..if you take out someone with a rear facing SL, even if it's only once, wouldn't that make it useful to you? If memory serves, any torso or head mounted weapon can be designated as rear facing, so you want a rear firing AC20, you can do that..but that's the ONLY facing it can fire on. Better to modify the arms so they can flip and mount big guns in them..like the Warhammer does, among others.

[verybad]

It's something that would require mechs to be very un-agile (dunno if that's a word) to be useful, otherwise arm based weapons would be much more flexible. In a turn based game they're obviously useful. Their usefulness in a RT game will depend on the movement. I suspect they probably wouldn't be used that much, but until I get to actually try the game, I'll reserve my opinion.

[Kristov Kerensky]

They were useful in MW1 and MPBT Solaris..Mechs arms can't point behind the Mech without being modified to do just that, flip, otherwise you can't aim your weapons into the rear center flank..hence rear facing weapons and flipping arms.

[verybad]

Yeah, but with RT movement, you don't get caught with somebody directly behind you as easilly, you can modify your position and torso twist as the enemy is moving rather than potentially before (if you lose initiative for instance)

[Kristov Kerensky]

In some situations, that's just not possible vbad, I've had Lights and Mediums who's speed was such that my Assault literally couldn't turn fast enough to get a shot on them, they were in that center rear flank and took me out. That's in the MW2/3/4 games, not TT, they'd come from behind me or get behind me in a furball and that was it, as fast as I spun around, they were just fast enough to stay in that safe zone behind me and tear me apart with impunity. Altering my speed, using JJ on the few occasions I'd load an Assault with them, didn't matter, great pilots in those little mothers, saw more then a few of them over the years..really hated those pilots while I applauded their consummate piloting and anticipation skills.

Works the same in smaller Mechs vs smaller Mechs where speeds are equal..get in that rear safe zone and it doesn't matter what they do, you anticipate properly, they can't shake you and can't fire at you.

It's not every single combat, maybe..1 in 5 Light/Assault or 1 in 10 Light/Light..but you know what..that's often enough to want those rear facing weapons.

[verybad]

If you're in a furball, would you be taking the time to fire at that mech behind you in any case, rather than using everything against the bigger opponents that are the most dangerous at that point.

At this point, I figure leave the option available certainly (if it is in the first place) It's usefulness will earn itself a place in the game or not. I can't form an opinion in this new game till it's playable, and I'm sticking with that

[Conn Man]

Certain 'mechs in the VWE simulator pods use rear mounted weapons. That is in real time and they are very useful.

[EDMW CSN]

Put up a rear view camera view in my mech HUD and let my backside facing medium laser do the work
Granted rear mounted weapons in the torso have limited arc, but it is better than nothing, no ?