8 replies to this topic

[Capt Deadpool]

TLDR; another useless suggestion thread, see bolded.

Question: Do you prefer the current QP system with increasing wait times and dropping into games with people either far above or far below your skill level, or would you prefer higher quality games with lower wait times in which both teams had fewer players?

The low population problem seems to only be getting worse, as evidenced by what I see are two increasingly frequent issues: increasing wait times even during peak hours, increasing numbers of very low-skill and cadet players dropping in games with higher tier players. Both situations are unenjoyable players of all skill levels.

If we are not changing the PSR algorithm, despite all the effort put in by Nightbird and others, the only way I see of rectifying both these issues simultaneously is by adding another MM release valve where team number drops per side after certain increments of time and players from opposing ends of the skill spectrum are better segregated.

Example of MM sequence (each release valve triggering after 10-20 seconds):

12v12 w/ Tier 1 & 2
Release Valve 1: 11v11
Release Valve 2: 10v10
...
Final Release Valve: 4v4

Likewise with lower tiers:
12v12 w/ Tier 5 & 4
Release Valve 1: 11v11
Release Valve 2: 10v10
Etc.

Tier 3 games can pull from Tier 2 and 4. Groups can have their tiers averaged together.

Though there is a 99% chance this post will come to nothing like every other suggestion thread, I personally think this system would be far better than the current system; the most interesting part of matches now for me is when games get down to around 4v4 or 6v6 anyway. Teams start working together better when the chaotic aspects of 12v12 have been reduced. Additionally, there would be less frustration for better players who are teamed with players without map knowledge or situational awareness and who cannot aim, and lower skill players who get lost on the map then farmed who are just as unhappy if not moreso...

I would remind people that simply because a game is 'balanced' with an equal number low and high skill players on each team, does not mean it is going to be a quality game: the wider the tier gap permitted in a game, the lower quality the game will usually end up being.

Edited by Capt Deadpool, 13 December 2020 - 11:48 AM.

[Therax]

This sounds like 8v8 with added steps.

[LordNothing]

i dont much enjoy wait times at all. a night of mwo is like 30-60% waiting and the rest is actually spent in game actual.

i think id like to see a lance based mm with dynamic match size. would generate pairs of equally matched lances and fill games up with those. at low peak times the game will reduce to 8v8, or even 4v4 if the player pool is really low.

i dont think population is quite that low just yet. but if it gets to the point where the wait times feel like fp, then something would need to be done.

Edited by LordNothing, 12 December 2020 - 04:42 PM.

[Anomalocaris]

IMO there is nothing wrong with dynamic team sizes, in principle.

However, the smaller the team size the better the matchmaker needs to become. You can't tolerate massive differences in mech types in a 4v4 or 6v6 battle so you need to have similar class distribution on each team.

I also think that knowing that you might be stuck into a 4v4 match would cause you to eliminate many mech builds simply because you need to be able to 1v1 pretty effectively in such a small group. Some people might consider that a feature, not a bug, but I think it would drive a substantial portion of the playerbase away (or at least to stop playing during those times of low pop).

As much as I think bigger teams are more fun, I think that you'd want to limit minimum team size to 8v8. Maybe just step from 12 to 10 to 8.

That said, I agree. It will never happen and PGI won't improve the matchmaker enough to even make it feasible. But nice thought.

[martian]

Capt Deadpool, on 12 December 2020 - 01:44 PM, said:

TLDR; another useless suggestion thread, see bolded.
...

Just say directly that you want 6v6 or 4v4.

Capt Deadpool, on 12 December 2020 - 01:44 PM, said:

... the most interesting part of matches now for me is when games get down to around 4v4 or 6v6 anyway.

See? Your entire post reduced to just one sentence.

But with your suggestion implemented, MWO would die even sooner, because the greater number of 'Mechs is in the battle, the greater probability that you can get away with using fun- or non-meta builds.

With the possibility that any mission could be 4v4 or 5v5 right from the start, every player would have to keep in mind that even the smallest mistake is going to be punished by the opposing players quickly. And taking anything other than a meta-Mech would be such mistake, especially in such small game. So no more Griffins, Wolverines, Shadow Hawks, Hunchbacks, Bushwackers, Kintaros, Novas, etc. in the game, just two or three Vapor Eagle variants every single game. Ditto for the other 'Mech categories.

Either go meta or go home.

I think that the casual players would realize this fact quite quickly. The majority of them would leave the game and a few tryhards would be sitting in the empty Quick Play queue, talking about the strange problem that nobody wants to be farmed by their premade group in their meta 'Mechs, so the situation would be the same as in the other three dead MWO gamemodes.

By the way, I saw exactly this happening during the last days of Mektek's MechWarrior 4.

Edited by martian, 12 December 2020 - 11:29 PM.

[Capt Deadpool]

martian, on 12 December 2020 - 10:39 PM, said:

Just say directly that you want 6v6 or 4v4.

But I don't. I'd like 12v12 where both teams are within a narrower margin of skill range while also staunching the increasing wait times. Ain't gonna happen though (neither is my suggestion, but I digress.). Just because I find the later stages of 12v12 more exciting than the early stages does not mean I want every game to start out 6v6 or 4v4.

Now, would I prefer a 6v6 game where all players on both sides are within 1 tier of each other with shorter wait times to get into games vs. what we have now? Yeah, I think it would be a better experience for both lower skilled players and higher skilled players if they were better segregated, even if that means dynamic team sizes. But 10v10 or 8v8 might be enough to make a big difference. I was just curious if I was in the minority or majority.

I'd also disagree dynamic team sizes would significantly increase the number of meta builds being fielded, except possibly during very non-peak hours.

Edited by Capt Deadpool, 13 December 2020 - 12:45 AM.

[Swamp Ass MkII]

I cant's seem to figure out what is going on here. The wait times aren't really all that bad. At least from my point of view. The wait times that suck, are in FP! lol...

[East Indy]

Swamp *** MkII, on 13 December 2020 - 11:16 AM, said:

I cant's seem to figure out what is going on here. The wait times aren't really all that bad. At least from my point of view.

Me, either. And there are more active players right now since nearly 18 months.
Deadpool, are you dropping in a group? I see you occasionally but can't recall. If so, then...that's the tradeoff.

[Capt Deadpool]

Ahh glad wait times haven't been noticeably increasing for some of you guys. I drop solo and group, was in a two-man Friday during prime time and wait times seemed to be significantly longer than in the past either solo or group, but maybe it was just random.

I personally still think dynamic team sizes with lower skill variance would be superior to our current system, which by necessity has to mash wide variances in skill into the same game due to population, but that is just one man's opinion. Purely academic/philosophical discussion in any case.