46 replies to this topic

[My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ]

The6thMessenger, on 17 December 2020 - 08:56 PM, said:

Kaiju - King Crab arms are more of liability, so having ballistics on torso high-mounts are important.

The Kaiju is crap.

[Lanzman]

Superman is pretty cool. Batman is okay. Wolverine is kind of over used. Deadpool is funny, at least. Spider-Man is okay.

[VonBruinwald]

Lanzman, on 18 December 2020 - 11:32 AM, said:

Superman is pretty cool. Batman is okay. Wolverine is kind of over used. Deadpool is funny, at least. Spider-Man is okay.

You forgot the greatest hero of them all:

[Heavy Money]

Bud Crue, on 18 December 2020 - 08:02 AM, said:

I think given the state of the game, that one of the best hero mechs is the Jester. Durable and mobile, it excels at Nascar. It has one of the smallest frontal profiles (if not thee smallest) of the heavy mechs. It can run a standard engine build and still be more mobile than most other mechs on the field, or on the flip side, it can run an XL, and because of that profile, still be pretty durable. Dual AMS to pad match score, and honestly gain some survivability given the sheer number of missiles that are spammed these days (I had four matches last night of more than 600 missiles destroyed, of which two were just shy of 900). Despite only 6 hard points it can still be built with a variety of useful builds from a 5LL poker to a 6MPL brawler and everything in between.

I've also been very happy playing the Jester. I was running it last night and had multiple matches with over 1,000 missile kills! Its handling is so nice. I feel like I get more done with it even compared to "better" laser heavies like the EBJ. I usually manage upwards of 600dmg (unless I die immediately). And I don't need to feel bad about not having a long range build when we end up on Polar Highlands.

I'd be interested to see details on some of those builds you're talking about. I've been doing well with this:
JESTER
I've also done versions with smaller engines/less jumpjets to upgrade to either large pulse or medium pulses, but I like having the extra range and the 3rd JJ makes the differences between making jump to vantage points on lots of maps.

[Nightbird]

Heavy Money, on 18 December 2020 - 11:54 AM, said:

JESTER

AMS is great for earning match score but if you're interested in earning more damage/c-bills/wins, I suggest getting the grasshopper and hellbringer heros (Mjolnir and Virago), both kitted mid range laser vomit. They are fast, the grasshopper is tanky and has JJs, the Virago can equip ECM and has great weapon mounts. Both are harder to use, but you'll do more damage and win more matches after getting used to them.

Edited by Nightbird, 18 December 2020 - 12:28 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Heavy Money said:

1608321279[/url]' post='6365333']

I've also been very happy playing the Jester. I was running it last night and had multiple matches with over 1,000 missile kills! Its handling is so nice. I feel like I get more done with it even compared to "better" laser heavies like the EBJ. I usually manage upwards of 600dmg (unless I die immediately). And I don't need to feel bad about not having a long range build when we end up on Polar Highlands.

I'd be interested to see details on some of those builds you're talking about. I've been doing well with this:
JESTER
I've also done versions with smaller engines/less jumpjets to upgrade to either large pulse or medium pulses, but I like having the extra range and the 3rd JJ makes the differences between making jump to vantage points on lots of maps.

Don’t have access to the game atm, but I run 4 different builds, but mostly I run a std 300, 2jj, 6mpl, 2AMS (I think 2 tons ammo...but it might be a mere ton and a half) the rest in DHS (should end up with a HE of ~1.4). In groups that are willing to push together the thing is a blast. You can do pretty much the same build with a 325 LFE for a bit more speed, but I really like not having the heat spike when losing a side that the std provides, cuz the goal in this thing is to always be firing and ridding the heat bar. With skill tree you can be firing just under every 3 seconds.

Others are either a 2LPL 4ML or a 2LL 4ERML build. Still try to do 2JJ (honestly you only need the 1), 2AMS but the engine is a LFE 285 (I think) in the former and a 300 in the latter. Heat is 1.3 for either (I think). Can’t be as aggressive but the extra range make them less situational.

Last one is the 5LL/5ERLL build. I think it is the one listed on grimmechs. Much harder for me to play as I lack the patience and map awareness to really make this shine, but it still can have its moments.

Edited by Bud Crue, 18 December 2020 - 12:31 PM.

[Horseman]

Heavy Money, on 17 December 2020 - 08:49 PM, said:

In many cases, hero mechs are not as optimal as their regular variants. But some seem to be really nice, or allow fun alternative builds. I've seen lots of discussion about different hero mechs scattered around, but not in one place, or necessarily up to date. So, tell me what you know about Heroes. Perhaps rank them in some tiers?

DenAirwalkerr had a list somewhere. There's I think some ranking of them at Grimmechs too.

[Gagis]

I'd recommend a bit more firepower and range with something along these lines: https://mech.nav-alp...03c1ddfe_CPLT-J

laser AMS heat is just too much to be worth it for any mech.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Lanzman, on 18 December 2020 - 11:32 AM, said:

Superman is pretty cool. Batman is okay. Wolverine is kind of over used. Deadpool is funny, at least. Spider-Man is okay.

You are one those too cool for school

VonBruinwald, on 18 December 2020 - 11:47 AM, said:

You forgot the greatest hero of them all:

Dirty little Justice League secret Flash is the most power member not Superman

Edited by SirSmokes, 18 December 2020 - 01:08 PM.

[RickySpanish]

SirSmokes, on 18 December 2020 - 01:07 PM, said:

You are one those too cool for school


Dirty little Justice League secret Flash is the most power member not Superman

Flash and Dredd fo' life yo!

[Heavy Money]

Gagis, on 18 December 2020 - 12:38 PM, said:

laser AMS heat is just too much to be worth it for any mech.

I know that's true on paper and in theory, but I've had very little trouble with it in practice. I tend to be part of a group where we'll all run an AMS and stick together. Solo I wouldn't bother because 1 AMS alone doesn't do much, but in a group it adds up to a nice umbrella. And having a laser AMS solves the issue of it running out. I've had lots of games in the Jester where that laser AMS has kept doing work long after regular AMS ammo would have run out.

[VonBruinwald]

Gagis, on 18 December 2020 - 12:38 PM, said:

laser AMS heat is just too much to be worth it for any mech.

Learning how and when to toggle LAMS is vital to its use.

[Nightbird]

IS LAMS is one ton heavier than AMS. Basically you can run 1 AMS + 1 ton ammo for the same weight and having no heat to worry about. The question is, how often is 1 ton of ammo per AMS not enough for QP that lasts around 4 minutes? The answer for me is 9/10 matches I don't run out of AMS ammo. I suggesting doing this experiment. If you have no heat to worry about, and ammo is not an issue, then you can use the extra heat to do more damage in 9/10 matches. If this is the case for you, then LAMS is a bad deal.

Basically weigh the 1/10 matches LAMS helps you against the 9/10 matches where the LAMS hurts you.

[Valdarion Silarius]

If you want an underrated hero try the Gargoyle Kin Wolf. Probably one of the tankiest clan assaults out there that can lead pushes and share armor with reasonable success in a well coordinated team.

[Heavy Money]

Nightbird, on 18 December 2020 - 04:31 PM, said:

IS LAMS is one ton heavier than AMS. Basically you can run 1 AMS + 1 ton ammo for the same weight and having no heat to worry about. The question is, how often is 1 ton of ammo per AMS not enough for QP that lasts around 4 minutes? The answer for me is 9/10 matches I don't run out of AMS ammo. I suggesting doing this experiment. If you have no heat to worry about, and ammo is not an issue, then you can use the extra heat to do more damage in 9/10 matches. If this is the case for you, then LAMS is a bad deal.

Basically weigh the 1/10 matches LAMS helps you against the 9/10 matches where the LAMS hurts you.

My anecdotal experience is that on matches where AMS matters, I need more than 1 ton of ammo per AMS. I often see matches where we're under sustained barrage for long periods during standoffs, or while holding an area. When there's a lot of missiles it matters, and when there's not a lot of missiles the extra heat from the LAMS doesn't matter.

So, when looking at the number of matches where LAMS is or isn't useful, we have to remove the number of matches where no AMS was useful.

My anecdotal impression is that on my Jester, running 1 AMS, 1 ton of ammo, and 1 LAMS, I run out of ammo in about 50% of the matches where missiles are a major factor. Matches tend to either be under 150 missiles destroyed, or upwards of 600. Now, how many matches have missiles as a big factor? That's harder to say. I tend to be part of a group, and the rest of the group is often long ranged firepower, so they are primary LRM targets. And I tend to stick near them for the first half of the match until things turn into a brawl. So I'm increasing the likelyhood of missiles being a factor in how my match goes. I'd say 50% of the time they matter, and 30% of the time they matter a lot.

So in a fair amount of matches, it doesn't matter which I used. But I feel like the LAMS works out more than it doesn't. But that may also be because of my build. If you looked at the link above, you'll notice I'm lighter on firepower than many Jester builds. But I still get great results because it has good sustainability/heat efficiency. It works well because I can keep firing for a long time. So even though DPS is lower, damage over time can be higher. I often get to stick on and finish off enemies with much bigger alphas, but who can no longer fight effectively because of their heat. And such a build would notice the extra heat from LAMS much, much less. So its entirely possible that I'm running a niche build that is the exception to the rule of LAMS.

Edited by Heavy Money, 18 December 2020 - 04:48 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

justcallme C L O U D, on 18 December 2020 - 11:08 AM, said:

The Kaiju is crap.

Not if you build it right.

2x MRM30 + UAC20, it's a brawling beast.

[LordNothing]

SirSmokes, on 18 December 2020 - 09:48 AM, said:

Two good omi hero Esprit De Corps and Revenant and see no one put the Ilya Muromets

ilya was good at some point. i remember when it was the only mech that could run 3 ac10s or lb-10s, newtech made it possible to ditch the xl engine and ammo buffs also became a thing. but then that newer victor variant kind of stole its thunder, it can do its job and more. that thing even enables tripple ac20s and you can get it with cbills. i wouldn't really recommend the ilya anymore, but its still a very usable mech.

[LordNothing]

The6thMessenger, on 18 December 2020 - 06:19 AM, said:

3x LPPC could work better if it does 6 damage every 3.0s. Would be useful for lights.

was originally an hppc, but 3x light ppcs are a ton less for the same damage. and i can invest that in a couple jump jets.

[Zordicron]

I had fun with:
Jester(various)
Muromets(various, usually some ballistics+PPC or LPL)
Firebrand(various)
Black Widow(AC10x2 plus lasers)
Heavy Metal(various, lately light PPC's, Rac2's and some LRM's)
Misery(AC20+SRM face SPANK, then some large laser for reach)

I bought a lot of mech packs way back in the day, so i have a lot of.... "normal" variants with c-bill bonuses stuck on them, many of which I prefer depending on chassis.
Barely have any clan heroes, can't comment, invasion variants give me dat c-bill bonus anyway.

[Gagis]

The6thMessenger, on 18 December 2020 - 05:04 PM, said:

Not if you build it right.

2x MRM30 + UAC20, it's a brawling beast.

MRM40+MRM20 + UAC20 is slightly better

but I run the same loadout on my Kaiju and the Atlas D, and the atlas is simply better.