81 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

LordNothing, on 09 January 2021 - 04:52 PM, said:

most people also want to flag it as a brawling weapon when its more of a close to midrange skirmisher weapon.

The standard PPC is better qualified as that given it has better range and has the minimum range. Lack of minimum range is why people think of it as a brawling weapon. Realistically it has more in common with AC20s which aren't really good at brawling either because they lack the raw damage output and generally mechs mounting them lack the speed as well.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 09 January 2021 - 06:22 PM.

[FupDup]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 January 2021 - 06:21 PM, said:

The standard PPC is better qualified as that given it has better range and has the minimum range. Lack of minimum range is why people think of it as a brawling weapon. Realistically it has more in common with AC20s which aren't really good at brawling either because they lack the raw damage output and generally mechs mounting them lack the speed as well.

Better range equals better brawling weapon?



You might be using a different and more specific definition of "brawling" than I do. I guess I use "brawling" as a broad term for basically any kind of short range fighting. I think you're using it to mean more of a sustained CQB fight?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

FupDup, on 09 January 2021 - 06:35 PM, said:

Better range equals better brawling weapon?



You might be using a different and more specific definition of "brawling" than I do. I guess I use "brawling" as a broad term for basically any kind of short range fighting. I think you're using it to mean more of a sustained CQB fight?

When I say brawling I mean generally face hugging and generally no cover. Basically match 1 of good ol MRBC comprised of brawling with maybe one or two short range poke mechs (like the LBX40 Hunchie or BJ-1X) which are different playstyles and different requirements. One requires full leg armor, more rear armor than normal, and sustained DPS, the other generally requires larger precision damage and less heat efficiency, fragility is also typically more acceptable.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 09 January 2021 - 06:45 PM.

[LordNothing]

FupDup, on 09 January 2021 - 06:35 PM, said:

Better range equals better brawling weapon?



You might be using a different and more specific definition of "brawling" than I do. I guess I use "brawling" as a broad term for basically any kind of short range fighting. I think you're using it to mean more of a sustained CQB fight?

i usually use the term skirmishing (usually following a specific engagement range) for fighting on a line where as brawling is more of a one on one kind of thing. in this case it would be close-in skirmishing. and the loadouts you need for the two are vastly different. brawlers tend to need high damage output over time, where skirmishers need to be able to sustain trades at a useful rate. the snub katana kat for example is by no means a brawler, unless you get inside the enemy's backside which is where the snubs are most useful.

the same applies at the other end of the range spectrum with long range skirmishing which is different from camping and for the same reason. skirmishers trade with their team, campers go solo and use repositioning to keep the enemy off guard. though there is less variation in the builds for that range bracket, an erll or erppc boat would do well in either. its probably not accurate but nobody ever complained about it.

[martian]

Crimsonblack, on 09 January 2021 - 11:25 AM, said:

I can't really find what's special about them.

There is really nothing special about Snub-nose PPCs in MWO.

You know, these weapons have one or two advantages (and disadvantages) in BattleTech, but the problem is that MWO uses a different game mechanics., so those tabletop advantages are not especially helpful in MWO.

So in MWO we are left with the weapon that is a little too heavy and produces a little too heat to be really useful.

Does this weapon work? Technically, yes. The problem is that the MWO players usually equipp their 'Mechs with alternative - more effective - weapon systems.

[Castigatus]

I like the slightly easier fitting compared to the ERs, makes running multiples a lot easier.

On that note I have a quad snub marauder that does ok, it's hampered more by my utter inability to aim ppc bolts than by any shortcomings of the weapon itself.

Edited by Castigatus, 10 January 2021 - 05:25 PM.

[LordNothing]

dont group fire ppcs, ever. it really screws up hit detection. i usually use 2 groups of 2 in chain fire, and then alternate your fire button. idk why this happens, probably due to convergence or bugs in the hit detection code. it simply spreads out the chances of missing. if you miss with 2 or 4, you miss with all of them. but if you miss with one, you only miss one and can correct with subsequent blasts. great on mechs that can maintain a barrage for several shots before cd is required.

Edited by LordNothing, 11 January 2021 - 10:57 PM.

[Jun Watarase]

Ive tried using them before, but they have a slight fire delay when firing which can mess you up (its like 0.5s i think? might be due to high ping) whereas lasers fire instantly. And LPL have a better range, better heat efficiency and the burn time is low enough that it doesnt matter much.

[Dr-Dude]

lighter and take less slot

I pack it on my flee 19.

believe me, assault and heavy do turn around when they get shot in back by it , perfect distraction.

Edited by DruDude, 16 January 2021 - 01:22 PM.

[selfish shellfish]

DruDude, on 16 January 2021 - 01:21 PM, said:

I pack it on my flee 19.

That reminded me. My other Snub nose PPC mech was a Spider 5D with two of them equipped. That was a kinda fun thing to pilot. Everyone looked at it and thought "Oh it's just a Spider. It's harmless just annoying". Free 20 damage back shots.

I suck at aiming so it was rare but occasionally one could one shot a leg off from a Locust or Flea. The surprised look was hilarious.

[RockmachinE]

LordNothing, on 11 January 2021 - 10:56 PM, said:

dont group fire ppcs, ever. it really screws up hit detection. i usually use 2 groups of 2 in chain fire, and then alternate your fire button. idk why this happens, probably due to convergence or bugs in the hit detection code. it simply spreads out the chances of missing. if you miss with 2 or 4, you miss with all of them. but if you miss with one, you only miss one and can correct with subsequent blasts. great on mechs that can maintain a barrage for several shots before cd is required.

Firing 2ppcs at a time will detect just fine if they both make it to the target. Now what does happen is that if a ppc is mounted slightly lover then the other one it might hit terrain and not make it to the target in the first place.

If you have the choice to deliver more damage at once rather then spread out damage over time always take this option, the only exception being if a target is one touch and you have to finish them off.

Edited by Louis Brofist, 17 January 2021 - 05:57 AM.

[Wildstreak]

Supposedly no 0-90 meter range for no damage.

For me the problem is their full damage range is less than half the max range like most other weapons.

Edited by Wildstreak, 17 January 2021 - 08:20 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Only advantage is one ton less in weight and no minimum range. There kind niche weapons for niche builds they work well on

[PocketYoda]

Slightly lighter, less tonnage, less heat, but very little range.

[FupDup]

Samial, on 21 January 2021 - 06:35 PM, said:

Slightly lighter, less tonnage, less heat, but very little range.

They generate more heat than standard PPCs.

[Wildstreak]

Did a test finally, was interesting. Gotta try it on a bigger Mech for more Alpha Strike power.

[LordNothing]

Louis Brofist, on 17 January 2021 - 05:54 AM, said:

Firing 2ppcs at a time will detect just fine if they both make it to the target. Now what does happen is that if a ppc is mounted slightly lover then the other one it might hit terrain and not make it to the target in the first place.

If you have the choice to deliver more damage at once rather then spread out damage over time always take this option, the only exception being if a target is one touch and you have to finish them off.

you should always do that. except in those situations where your crosshair is lined up dead center, and then your ppc bolts go under both arms or dont hit detect and you get nothing for the heat. i think my warhawk prime is my #3 top performer, and i got my ace with a quad cerppc supernova. fire four in rapid succession, and all four hit ct. the convergence math doesn't quite handle widely spaced hardpoints well. when you invoke pythagoras with an fpu, you never know what you are gonna get, especially with a lot of flat right triangles. get a boatload of nan and you might as well not have converged.

i do this thing where i group my ppcs in 2 groups of 2, set chain fire (a group for each arm more or less), and do alternating doubletaps on both buttons. the result is you get your ppcs off fast yet without losing accuracy caused by convergence glitches. and these arent really peak'n'poke mechs, especially the warhawk, you usually need to do a sustained barrage from an exposed location, where your only cover is your enemy doesnt want to get hit by ppcs. doesnt work against large numbers of enemies without team support though. in those cases you usually side poke the cover.

if you want to max alpha no ghost, put your ppcs in hardpoints that are either in the same component or are very close together. i dont think it matters that much if you delay half a second to fire the second, with cooldowns being what they are, and mechs being slow. i feel that peak'n'poke is more effective with the lighter end of the mech spectrum, and those mechs have a lot tighter hardpoint spacing as well, so fewer glitches.

[VonBruinwald]

LordNothing, on 22 January 2021 - 01:14 AM, said:

i do this thing where i group my ppcs in 2 groups of 2, set chain fire (a group for each arm more or less), and do alternating doubletaps on both buttons. the result is you get your ppcs off fast yet without losing accuracy caused by convergence glitches. and these arent really peak'n'poke mechs, especially the warhawk, you usually need to do a sustained barrage from an exposed location, where your only cover is your enemy doesnt want to get hit by ppcs. doesnt work against large numbers of enemies without team support though. in those cases you usually side poke the cover.

This is exactly how I play my Night-Gyr.

Another thing I found about the 2x2 chain-fired is if you're crossing open ground you can suppress an enemies position by slowing your fire-rate but keeping up a constant barrage. If you drop alphas there's a long delay between shots in which people are inclined to poke out at you.

[R Valentine]

In the meta of everyone just rushing at you, snub PPCs are the only IS PPC even remotely viable. ERPPCs are far too hot and do too little damage for the heat/weight investment, HPPC and PPC both have minimum ranges that are far too easy to exploit in the current environment. snub PPCs work better with ballistics since there's no burn time, which allows you to leverage your superior twisting speed that IS mechs have over clan. They're still pretty niche weapons, but the niche fits into the current meta, where all other IS PPCs don't.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Kiran Yagami, on 22 January 2021 - 07:27 AM, said:

In the meta of everyone just rushing at you, snub PPCs are the only IS PPC even remotely viable. ERPPCs are far too hot and do too little damage for the heat/weight investment, HPPC and PPC both have minimum ranges that are far too easy to exploit in the current environment. snub PPCs work better with ballistics since there's no burn time, which allows you to leverage your superior twisting speed that IS mechs have over clan. They're still pretty niche weapons, but the niche fits into the current meta, where all other IS PPCs don't.

They pair nicely with standard AC 10s get that nice pin point ten damage with both the 10s and snub PPCs and IS standard 10 are very low heat as well so it a very good combo on some builds

Edited by SirSmokes, 22 January 2021 - 08:39 AM.