31 replies to this topic

[w0qj]

There are other online games (eg: Star Trek Online) where there is just "one" random queue, and the game assigns you accordingly. If you really insist on queue for one specific game mode (eg: QP, FP, Solaris7 in MWO), then you still can, but at a (greatly) increased wait time. Random queue gives out more rewards, as compared to your insistence of a specific queue of your choice.

There are even random queue bonus weekend events once every few months as well.

BTW, Star Trek Online is one of the more successful online games around, about to hit the 11th Anniversary in just a few days time.

Like I've said before, it's OK for MWO/PGI staff to go play other online games, but please please please bring back your own findings and new ideas back to MWO/MW5.

Elizander, on 23 January 2021 - 02:24 AM, said:

I expected Solaris to have better performance than QP so I was really looking forward to it and I tolerated it even with the bad queues at first, but then I noticed it had just as bad or worse FPS than QP which has +22 more mechs and bigger maps. That just made no sense.

The queues also made no sense. There should only be one queue and the queue button should be beside Quick Play. PGI also can't deal with multiple queues. Why can't I queue for Solaris/FP/QP and be tossed in whichever is available? Wouldn't that be great for variety? It's like having 3 different modes available at your fingertips and randomized so you could be doing 1v1, 12v12 or 12v12 with respawns.

• Queue for all 3 game modes.
  
• Picked for Solaris -> Pick your mech for this Solaris bracket -> Fight
  
• Picked for QP -> Default mech for QP is set beforehand -> Fight
  
• Picked for FP -> Drop deck selected beforehand -> Fight

Suddenly in one queue you have a huge variety in game modes without changing a thing mapwise or etc.

• 2/4/6/8 guys didn't qualify for a QP match (QP can be priority)? Toss them in Solaris.
  
• FP guys need 4 more peeps and there happens to be 4 peeps that didn't qualify for a QP match? Toss them in FP.
  
• 1 guy sitting all by himself all lonely in Solaris queue? Grab 1 guy who didn't qualify for QP and make them fight.
  
• The MM can keep a buffer of people to line up for the next couple of QP matches and shave off spares for other modes as needed.
  
• No one queuing up for FP/Solaris exclusively today? Fine, you get QP.

[Willard Phule]

FupDup, on 22 January 2021 - 06:48 PM, said:

Another game like that was Team Fortress 2, which only launched with one map per mode yet no one complained about the game being stale at the time.

While more maps in MWO would be nice, I don't think the amount of payoff the devs would get would justify it. And the gameplay would just inevitably devolve into an established routine anyways.

Stuff like more guns, more robots, and/or buffed existing robots would be way easier to implement and would likely have a higher payoff (especially if actually good mechs are chosen for new additions, they might be able to partially or fully pay for themselves unlike maps which can't directly make up the money they cost).

Dude, MWO is NOT TF2. It's not even a comparison. TF2 was developed on an up to date (at the time) game engine by people that actually knew how to code their own game. Most of the guys that developed it had developed other mods of the HL or HL2 engines, like Counter Strike. Pirhana has two titles....a bass fishing game and this.

Oh, and TF2 is still going strong and drawing new players constantly.

[ImperialKnight]

sigh..... this again..... read the announcements back when the Dervish was released. NO NEW CONTENT until further notice.

Even in the latest Townhall whatever, PGI already stated whatever "new" development is going to be a minimal effort affair.

They outright said new maps are not off the table, as long as it REUSES ASSETS. Even the recent "Intel Gathering" is asking about new variants. VARIANTS, not new chasis. Means they just want to milk a quick buck

hat do you think that says about the mentality?

[Bud Crue]

ImperialKnight, on 23 January 2021 - 05:38 AM, said:

Even in the latest Townhall whatever, PGI already stated whatever "new" development is going to be a minimal effort affair.

An outline of the planned minimalism from the latest update thread:

https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__6370104

[FupDup]

Willard Phule, on 23 January 2021 - 04:03 AM, said:

Dude, MWO is NOT TF2. It's not even a comparison. TF2 was developed on an up to date (at the time) game engine by people that actually knew how to code their own game. Most of the guys that developed it had developed other mods of the HL or HL2 engines, like Counter Strike. Pirhana has two titles....a bass fishing game and this.

Oh, and TF2 is still going strong and drawing new players constantly.

The point is that maps are overrated. They take up a crapton of dev resources compared to other features that might actually make a difference in gameplay. The maps we have now get repetitive because the core gameplay is repetitive. No amount of new maps will change that.

[Vlad Ward]

w0qj, on 23 January 2021 - 02:59 AM, said:

There are other online games (eg: Star Trek Online) where there is just "one" random queue, and the game assigns you accordingly. If you really insist on queue for one specific game mode (eg: QP, FP, Solaris7 in MWO), then you still can, but at a (greatly) increased wait time. Random queue gives out more rewards, as compared to your insistence of a specific queue of your choice.

There are even random queue bonus weekend events once every few months as well.

BTW, Star Trek Online is one of the more successful online games around, about to hit the 11th Anniversary in just a few days time.

Like I've said before, it's OK for MWO/PGI staff to go play other online games, but please please please bring back your own findings and new ideas back to MWO/MW5.

Star Trek Online is 99.9% PvE. The "queue" here is totally incomparable. The financial success of the game is also largely driven by their sub-1% rate lootbox mechanics and the Star Trek fanbase's rabid need to sped hundreds of dollars to fly around in one of five different flavors of Constitution-class starship.

Source: Am DPS-Platinum in STO.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 23 January 2021 - 02:19 PM.

[crazytimes]

FupDup, on 23 January 2021 - 10:19 AM, said:

The point is that maps are overrated. They take up a crapton of dev resources compared to other features that might actually make a difference in gameplay. The maps we have now get repetitive because the core gameplay is repetitive. No amount of new maps will change that.

Agreed.

Most of the maps we have now are only actually played on maybe 30-50% of their playable area. Some, like polar, would be closer to 20%.

Just changing the spawns up a bit would make people use parts that have never seen a mechs footprints before. Then they could actually look at... absolutely any kind of new content. I don't see maps as urgent.

[VonBruinwald]

crazytimes, on 24 January 2021 - 01:43 AM, said:

Agreed.

Most of the maps we have now are only actually played on maybe 30-50% of their playable area. Some, like polar, would be closer to 20%.

Just changing the spawns up a bit would make people use parts that have never seen a mechs footprints before. Then they could actually look at... absolutely any kind of new content. I don't see maps as urgent.

+1; Some potential domination changes I've been toying with:

All four have the same objectives in mind:

• Move the main combat zone to a not-oft played part of the map
  
• Provide opportunities to fight/harass en-route and by extension reduce the prevalence of Nascar. Lights and Mediums now have a choice to cap, harass the enemy or screen their harassers.
  
• Make the objective area feel like an objective. A patch of open snow in the highlands doesn't feel like an objective, but a base structure does.

Spoiler

Dom = C4, Gens = D3/C5, Spawns = F3/E6

Quite obvious really, you have a main base to fight over and a mountain blocking LOS on approach.

Spoiler

Dom = C4, Gens = E5/C5, Spawns = D7/G5

The mountain pass and tunnel provide an opportunity to flank the enemy team and easy access to their generator. First contact will likely be in D5, but D4/C4 offers better cover. Don't forget to pay your respects at the memorial monument in C3

Spoiler

Dom = J6, Gens = H6/K8, Spawns = F5/K10

Good fights to be had in J6 but plenty of opportunities to fight in the usual places.

Spoiler

Dom = F4, Gens = E5/G5, Spawns = E8/H8

Airdrop and a beach head insertion result in heavy ordinance getting flung around a nuclear power-plant, what could go wrong...
E5 provides a good position for over-watch but G5 offers better cover if you're heading for the objective.

Edited by VonBruinwald, 24 January 2021 - 05:55 AM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

VonBruinwald, on 24 January 2021 - 05:53 AM, said:

+1; Some potential domination changes I've been toying with:

All four have the same objectives in mind:

• Move the main combat zone to a not-oft played part of the map
  
• Provide opportunities to fight/harass en-route and by extension reduce the prevalence of Nascar. Lights and Mediums now have a choice to cap, harass the enemy or screen their harassers.
  
• Make the objective area feel like an objective. A patch of open snow in the highlands doesn't feel like an objective, but a base structure does.

Spoiler

Dom = C4, Gens = D3/C5, Spawns = F3/E6

Quite obvious really, you have a main base to fight over and a mountain blocking LOS on approach.

Spoiler

Dom = C4, Gens = E5/C5, Spawns = D7/G5

The mountain pass and tunnel provide an opportunity to flank the enemy team and easy access to their generator. First contact will likely be in D5, but D4/C4 offers better cover. Don't forget to pay your respects at the memorial monument in C3

Spoiler

Dom = J6, Gens = H6/K8, Spawns = F5/K10

Good fights to be had in J6 but plenty of opportunities to fight in the usual places.

Spoiler

Dom = F4, Gens = E5/G5, Spawns = E8/H8

Airdrop and a beach head insertion result in heavy ordinance getting flung around a nuclear power-plant, what could go wrong...
E5 provides a good position for over-watch but G5 offers better cover if you're heading for the objective.

This is why better game modes would make for a better game. Most game modes are mostly just deathmatch with no or some objectives. The exceptions are conquest and incursion that force you to play on other parts of the map

Edited by SirSmokes, 24 January 2021 - 06:00 AM.

[crazytimes]

SirSmokes, on 24 January 2021 - 06:00 AM, said:

This is why better game modes would make for a better game. Most game modes are mostly just deathmatch with no or some objectives. The exceptions are conquest and incursion that force you to play on other parts of the map

But... they don't force anything.

Conquest, as long as you get your teams two captures, you don't have to worry about points until after everyone is dead. So everyone meets near theta and rotates like normal.

Incursion, everyone meets at the central battery and rotates. One or two lights might go and shoot the base a bit, and get killed, then everyone goes back to rotating.

There is nothing in any QP game mode that actually changes the core gameplay of "go to X point and rotate". The only difference with conquest and incursion, is after you win, it may take a minute or two to go and shoot a box or stand in a square to finalise the win.

[The pessimistic optimist]

crazytimes, on 24 January 2021 - 04:52 PM, said:

But... they don't force anything.

Conquest, as long as you get your teams two captures, you don't have to worry about points until after everyone is dead. So everyone meets near theta and rotates like normal.

Incursion, everyone meets at the central battery and rotates. One or two lights might go and shoot the base a bit, and get killed, then everyone goes back to rotating.

There is nothing in any QP game mode that actually changes the core gameplay of "go to X point and rotate". The only difference with conquest and incursion, is after you win, it may take a minute or two to go and shoot a box or stand in a square to finalise the win.

Map lay out and size a lot of the larger maps don't play like that

Edited by SirSmokes, 24 January 2021 - 05:11 PM.

[Wildstreak]

Palor, on 22 January 2021 - 02:21 PM, said:

League of Legends has had 1 map for ever now. I suspect maps may just be fluff, nice, but fluff.

Never played it, never will for one main reason.
Still I know they have had other maps even other modes but they eliminated those modes and most different maps were event maps.

w0qj, on 23 January 2021 - 02:59 AM, said:

There are other online games (eg: Star Trek Online) where there is just "one" random queue, and the game assigns you accordingly. If you really insist on queue for one specific game mode (eg: QP, FP, Solaris7 in MWO), then you still can, but at a (greatly) increased wait time. Random queue gives out more rewards, as compared to your insistence of a specific queue of your choice.



There are even random queue bonus weekend events once every few months as well.



BTW, Star Trek Online is one of the more successful online games around, about to hit the 11th Anniversary in just a few days time.



Like I've said before, it's OK for MWO/PGI staff to go play other online games, but please please please bring back your own findings and new ideas back to MWO/MW5.

STO is also a RPG, usually they have only 1 queue except for certain special things.
Better to use other online Shooters and MOBAs that do have multiple modes.

R6 Siege has 3 queues and some maps + modes are only available in one of them.
Ranked where rank matter, some maps and only 1 mode.
Unranked same as Ranked but you have no rank thus even high Ranks get matched with low Ranks. Supposed to be where you learn before doing Ranked but Rank mixing plus lack of Rank effect makes it kinda worse.
Casual, maps rotate every few months and all 3 modes available, I heard it was also a cesspool.
Sometimes they have a 4th queue either for an event or when they do a map rework they do a special queue for about a month where you play nothing but that map and 1 mode.
Siege also barely puts out new maps and no one really complains about it.
EDIT - Almost forgot, they have a 4th queue for Newcomers you can play until you hit account level 50 but that ironically has similar issues like QP here.

Smite has 7 Casual queues not counting Custom, Jungle / Training and special events plus 3 Ranked for 10 total.
They have tried cutting down queues by eliminating modes but it causes major backlash.
Once they wanted to remove Clash mode but massive screaming happened.
Some wanted Siege removed but again backlash. They did manage to cut down Siege queue times from 8+ minutes to 3+. That proves you can have multiple queues and find other ways to shorten queue times, you just have to know the details.

Part of MWO's problems is it lacks 'The Systems' that make other games sell though some are debatable.

Edited by Wildstreak, 25 January 2021 - 09:32 AM.