116 replies to this topic

[The pessimistic optimist]

Come on we all know it's the pukie baby

[Y E O N N E]

JediPanther, on 21 February 2021 - 04:50 PM, said:

3v has 2b over the 5v so it has a lot more options for builds. Even a troll ac 2 build on it would be funner than a 5v.

The SDR-5V has a cooldown quirk that makes its 2MPL better than anything you can fit on the LCT-3V plus it has the capture rate quirk to give a highly useful, if narrow, niche.

It is objectively a better 'Mech in more situations than an LCT-3V.

Edited by Miss Greene, 21 February 2021 - 05:00 PM.

[Natural Predator]

Executioner is pretty bad. Out of all the clan assault mechs I consider it the worst.
Timber wolf is terrible these days
Puma/cougar is pretty weak it can do a few things reasonably
Is side
Zeus
Centurion
Are pretty good candidates

[PocketYoda]

Trashtier, on 21 February 2021 - 06:15 PM, said:

Executioner is pretty bad. Out of all the clan assault mechs I consider it the worst.
Timber wolf is terrible these days
Puma/cougar is pretty weak it can do a few things reasonably
Is side
Zeus
Centurion
Are pretty good candidates

Adder is great at laser boating, i agree cougar is weaker but still better than most IS.

[Tarogato]

Heh, just had this discussion on my discord, will just copy paste what I said.



Worst variant in the game? - SDR-5V or FLE-19 or CDA-3C

Light variant? - SDR-5V or FLE-19
Medium variant? - Grid Iron or CDA-3C
Heavy variant? - Sköll, maybe CTF-2X
Assault variant? - Skokomish, Siren, KDK-2

Worst light chassis? - Spider, Jenner, Jenner IIC, Raven
Worst medium chassis? - Centurion, Centurion, Centurion, Ice Ferret, Hunchback
Worst heavy chassis? - Cataphract, Jagermech, Archer
Worst assault chassis? - Hatamoto, Zeus, Highlander, Night Star, Marauder II, Kodiak



We had quite a discussion over whether the FLE-19 was actually bad. Some people seem to think it's quite good, and that there's a number of Locust variants that are way worse. I don't necessarily disagree, there are some terrible Locusts at the moment. But the FLE-19 is indeed bad.

[FupDup]

Tarogato, on 21 February 2021 - 10:49 PM, said:

We had quite a discussion over whether the FLE-19 was actually bad. Some people seem to think it's quite good, and that there's a number of Locust variants that are way worse. I don't necessarily disagree, there are some terrible Locusts at the moment. But the FLE-19 is indeed bad.

The MG-boat Flea at least has a unique niche that no other IS mech can touch for now and the foreseeable future. I don't know of any other IS mass-ballistic boats other than the Juggernaut, which is a 90-ton assault mech that breaks MWO's hardcoded weapon cap.

All it needs is for IS MGs to get buffed and it should be good to go.

Also PGI needs to invent an IS mech with at least 10 ballistic hardpoints (make it really unique by giving it no energy or missiles whatsoever). Preferably a medium or heavy because I have an agenda.

Edited by FupDup, 22 February 2021 - 02:57 AM.

[LordNothing]

gonna do my worst 10 mechs. i keep spreadsheets to help me select the best for faction play and other modes, when i care about doing well. most of the time i play for fun and make stupid builds. i map 3 stats (k/d, w/l and damage/game) on equal footing from 0-1 (best being 1 and worst being 0) and sum the result into a value called brownie points. the best possible result is 3, but most mechs fall way short of that number. my best statistically viable (50 or more games) mech is the mdd-h, an atm boat with 1.89 brownie points. though i have a cor-7a with 16 games on it sitting at 2.58 (ams op).

if you want to dig into the worst of the worst from my stats. from worst to less worse (and excluding anything with < 50 games for statistical viability):

cda-3c
fs9-k
lct-1m
cda-3f
sdr-5v
nva-s
cn9-al
wlf-2
enf-5d
jr7-iic-a


dishonorable mentions (they don't meet statistical viability standard of 50 games, some are new):

pnt-10p - its a game short from where i set the statistic viability threshold, would be in the cn9-al's spot otherwise.

um-r60l - idk why this urbie is at the bottom, its probably the variant i decided to run with the std-60. also 10 games short of statistical viability. would have taken the lct-1m's spot.

firestorm - its fairly new and has only 17 games on it, most of which were played during a losing streak. though i think the mech has something to do with it. firestarters fell behind the power creep long ago.

cda-3f(l) - along with the firestorm would have taken the second spot in the list if it was statistically viable. it also only has 15 games on it so it might climb.


for reference here is where other mechs mentioned in this thread (at least the first 3 pages) sit in terms of viability. im ranking these from best to worst and ignoring statistic viability to simplify the data mining. the point is to debunk some of the bad mech claims from some players or to agree with them (depending on the data). keep in mind the data is subjective to my various play styles and general inconsistency. i currently own 333 mechs, some duplicates, but i have 523 mechs in my stats. many were sold at some point and i no longer have them and there stats may be old. for reference the jr7-iic-a at the bottom of my worst mechs list sits at #510), im also going to be naming anything in my top 100 mechs that decidedly do not suck, at least for me. without further adieu:

black lanners - #148 (d variant), decidedly upper middile tier. but i only have one so far.

timby - from #23 (tbr-c), #31 (prime) to #218, quite a lot of variation from variant to variant.

jenners - from #35 to #510, lots of spread there. with the best one being the jr7-d, which is a huge outlier, the next best is #234 with the jr7-iic.

spiders - best one is #447, and #515 is the worst. not looking good for the bug. forgot the anansi, which is at #189 (probably because dual ams tiling the w/l stat).

ravens - #454 - #507. supprisingly the hugin is the best one.

blackjacks #86 (1x) - #499. the last one is the same one is the loyalty version mentioned in the post saying it was bad.

uziels - best is #90, the 6p, which i believe i have set up as a medpulse boat. the rest sit between #362 and #495. bad build magnet.

dervish - only have the dv-7d in the #333 spot.

hellspawn - have 2 of those at #84 (8e) and #116. not as bad as people claim.

zeuses - #154 to #377, with most being above #200. i think this is just very situational as i usually have them set up as srm or mrm brawlers or mixed builds.

cicadas - #147 to #523. two are near the top and the rest all very close to the bottom.

locusts - #414 to #518. even the pirates bane is bad.

ice ferrets - been looking forward to this one. ifr-d is #5 (not a typeo). then #16 (c) and #81 (a). all i would call upper tier mechs. the rainbow crow sits at #125. it gets worse from there with the remainder being #142 and #235 which are the prime and b variants respectively. people write this mech off way to easily. may have something to do with being completely invisible on the battlefield, which results from it being very underrated.

cougars - #251 to #477. blood adder in last place.

cataphracts - #30 (1x) to #416. the 4x sits at #190, so not the worst by far. ilya is #114, i think its fallen short as of late, used to be top notch at one point.

awesomes - #29 (8v) to #433. pretty good spread between the variants. do not have a pretty baby for comparison, it comes up a lot.

night gyrs - #46 (ngt-b variant) to #426. another hitter and misser. also the ntg-h(l) is also in the top 100 at #76.

excecutioners - #85 (exe-e, pretty sure an atm boat) to #428. even spread more or less. only thing its good at is atm boats.

nightstars - #93 (9p) and #227 (10p). not as bad as people think, though not that great either. i only own 2 variants.

banshees - #51 (3m) to #398. the 3e is supprisingly low (#216) as that used to be my go to assault in the day. la malinche is #187, so its reputation as a terrible mech is not earned (its middletier though).

nova cats - #13 (c) and #282. it has at least one good variant. its the one with the large pulse hsr quirk i think. hsr quirks help bad mechs be great in their niches, if those mechs are capable of receiving ghost heat anyway.

im gonna stop here this post has become long in the tooth.

Edited by LordNothing, 22 February 2021 - 03:27 AM.

[LordNothing]

Tarogato, on 21 February 2021 - 10:49 PM, said:

Heh, just had this discussion on my discord, will just copy paste what I said.



Worst variant in the game? - SDR-5V or FLE-19 or CDA-3C

Light variant? - SDR-5V or FLE-19
Medium variant? - Grid Iron or CDA-3C
Heavy variant? - Sköll, maybe CTF-2X
Assault variant? - Skokomish, Siren, KDK-2

Worst light chassis? - Spider, Jenner, Jenner IIC, Raven
Worst medium chassis? - Centurion, Centurion, Centurion, Ice Ferret, Hunchback
Worst heavy chassis? - Cataphract, Jagermech, Archer
Worst assault chassis? - Hatamoto, Zeus, Highlander, Night Star, Marauder II, Kodiak



We had quite a discussion over whether the FLE-19 was actually bad. Some people seem to think it's quite good, and that there's a number of Locust variants that are way worse. I don't necessarily disagree, there are some terrible Locusts at the moment. But the FLE-19 is indeed bad.

il bite. i also have my stats out from my previous mega post so its convenient for me. also your post kind of inspired my megapost.

i totally agree on the lights. fle-19 is #441 in my stats. sdr5v is #516. fs9-k us my worst at #520 (if you exclude the new to me firestorm from the solaris pack at #522).

grid iron sits at #364, doesnt take me much scrolling to find worse mediums though. and the cicada is my very worst at #523. my next two worst are both cicadas, the 3f(l) at #521 and the 3f at #517.

c2f-2x sits at #330. many much worse heavies for me. i dont have a skoll. my worst is the drg-5n at #509 and the on1-k at #497. both are probably bad builds that i played wrong.

skokomish is lower middle tier at #239, again much worse variants exist. kdk-2 is at #385, worse than the skoko, but not the worst. my worst is the vtr-9s(c) in #500 place, the to the victors victor i believe. as ****** as that event was, the prize was worse. i only have 11 games on it so it may be better than the stats indicate. next one up is the blr-3m at #483, probably a bad build on my part.

il skip the lights as i mostly agree. dont run those, they suck.

i disagree about the blanket statement on centurions in general being bad as i have a cn9-d in my top 100 at #79. though there are several in the middile tier and lower. the the cn9-a(ncix) is my second best at #175. the rest do kind of suck. and i already pointed out my opinions of the ice ferret in my other post, most ferrets are stronk when i play them. i also have a hbk-4sp in my #10 spot with the rest being lower middle tier to trash tier in my book, id say its worse than the centurion.

phracts are kind of spread out as i indicated in my megapost. couple decent variants, lot of bad ones. jagers middle to trash tier, agree with those. archers are middle to lower middle tier (i probibly ran some of those as lerm boats, the lermspammy one i usually fit with mrm10s for infinite chainfire missiles, while the cool shots hold out at least).

htm-27w is lower middle tier #275, but its the only variant i own. zeus i went into in my megapost, decidedly middle tier due to situational brawly builds and general aggressive playstyle on my part. i got two highlanders in my top 100 with the hgn 732 at #56 and the 733p in #89. rest are spread out through the middle and trash tiers. the iic version is significantly better though. night star i covered in my other post, and is decidedly high enough up not to be complete trash. marauder ii is decidedly middile tier to trash, so agree there. kodiaks are spread out in my stats and grossly overrated. the best one the kodiak-3 is firmly in the middle tier at #181, so agree.

[LordNothing]

FupDup, on 22 February 2021 - 02:54 AM, said:

The MG-boat Flea at least has a unique niche that no other IS mech can touch for now and the foreseeable future. I don't know of any other IS mass-ballistic boats other than the Juggernaut, which is a 90-ton assault mech that breaks MWO's hardcoded weapon cap.

All it needs is for IS MGs to get buffed and it should be good to go.

Also PGI needs to invent an IS mech with at least 10 ballistic hardpoints (make it really unique by giving it no energy or missiles whatsoever). Preferably a medium or heavy because I have an agenda.

i kind of want my theory crafted 8 hmg firestarter, which works out tonnage wise with plenty of ammo and a couple flamers to keep its namesake. though i think that hmg ammo needs a bit of a buff, at 1t for a short range gun, id expect more armor damage out of it (is version only, the clan version can keep the ammo buff only). an hmg %10 range quirk and a 25% ammo quirk would be welcome too, maybe something for the flamers like 15% flamer heat. would elevate the neglected firestarter chassis. maybe make it a hero like the current "booster pack" while providing a source of novelty (and income because i would definately buy it).

Edited by LordNothing, 22 February 2021 - 04:35 AM.

[Faithsfall]

How the hell have ppl not mentioned the Viper's just not enough free space to run anything truly decent, other mechs around the weight can do alot more and are more forgiving if you are hit.

[LordNothing]

Faithsfall, on 22 February 2021 - 10:56 AM, said:

How the hell have ppl not mentioned the Viper's just not enough free space to run anything truly decent, other mechs around the weight can do alot more and are more forgiving if you are hit.

limited podspace is not the same as bad, it usually just means being locked into a specific loadout and having no build diversity. though they perform adequately in the one specific role they were designed for.

lots of omnimechs have this problem and i think set of 8 quirks only compound the issue. should either be set of 6 (or any number from 2 to 7) so you have the option to swap out a couple pods without losing the quirks, or fractional set of 8 quirks where the quirks scale with the number of pods installed. both do the same thing in making swapping pods a less all or nothing thing.

Edited by LordNothing, 22 February 2021 - 11:38 AM.

[SnagaDance]

My personal contender for worst mech would be the Wolverine-7D. That it was actually a Loyalty 'reward' mech adds to the insult.

A single head mounted energy slot is useless. 2 Missile slots don't give any true power and those 2 right arm ballistic slots don't offer much either. There's absolutely no build I've found that works for me with that thing.

At least when I take out my Spider-5V I have fun. I don't do well, but al least it offers fun instead of frustration.

[FupDup]

SnagaDance, on 22 February 2021 - 01:16 PM, said:

My personal contender for worst mech would be the Wolverine-7D. That it was actually a Loyalty 'reward' mech adds to the insult.

A single head mounted energy slot is useless. 2 Missile slots don't give any true power and those 2 right arm ballistic slots don't offer much either. There's absolutely no build I've found that works for me with that thing.

MRMs are the secret sauce you're looking for. MRM50 Wolverine (any variant) is better than the majority of medium mechs available. The 7D has some pretty good cooldown and velocity quirks for your Murms too (arguably the best variant to run MRM50 on).

[LordNothing]

i think i run mine with a uac10 and an mrm30, with an erml shoved in as a backup. but its still in the trash tier in my stats (#403rd place). but it is a fun mech.

Edited by LordNothing, 22 February 2021 - 01:29 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

FupDup, on 22 February 2021 - 01:18 PM, said:

MRMs are the secret sauce you're looking for. MRM50 Wolverine (any variant) is better than the majority of medium mechs available. The 7D has some pretty good cooldown and velocity quirks for your Murms too (arguably the best variant to run MRM50 on).

I love my one with MRM 50 jump jets and MASC hella fun. It can jump around and sprint at 117kph

Edited by SirSmokes, 22 February 2021 - 01:37 PM.

[FupDup]

LordNothing, on 22 February 2021 - 01:27 PM, said:

i think i run mine with a uac10 and an mrm30, with an erml shoved in as a backup. but its still in the trash tier in my stats (#403rd place). but it is a fun mech.

If the UAC/5 quirk was changed to general UAC that build would be a bit better...they really need to do that swap with a ton of IS mechs.

[The pessimistic optimist]

FupDup, on 22 February 2021 - 01:38 PM, said:

If the UAC/5 quirk was changed to general UAC that build would be a bit better...they really need to do that swap with a ton of IS mechs.

One reason I want ammo per ton on none MG ballistics increased so IS medium ballistic builds are more do able. Then there is the idea people had for ammo quirks

Edited by SirSmokes, 22 February 2021 - 01:46 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 22 February 2021 - 02:54 AM, said:

The MG-boat Flea at least has a unique niche that no other IS mech can touch for now and the foreseeable future. I don't know of any other IS mass-ballistic boats other than the Juggernaut, which is a 90-ton assault mech that breaks MWO's hardcoded weapon cap.

All it needs is for IS MGs to get buffed and it should be good to go.

Also PGI needs to invent an IS mech with at least 10 ballistic hardpoints (make it really unique by giving it no energy or missiles whatsoever). Preferably a medium or heavy because I have an agenda.

As one of the people in Taro's discord who said the FLE-19 isn't that bad, the Fire Ant spits more DPS than the FLE-19 while having MASC all because the sum of ballistic and energy hardpoints is the same between them, Small Lasers have more DPS than MGs and get further enhanced by the Skill Tree, and the Fire Ant has more of them. You can scrub the MedLas or Small Pulse down to a standard Small Laser on the 19 to get in an RL10, if you want a little bit of instant damage. Fire Ant also has nicer armor quirks.

You can also bring 6x HMGs on a Javelin with bigger lasers for, again, more DPS than either variant of MG Flea. It actually gets pretty close to the MLX-G and even plays about the same with its fragile arms and slow running speed.

FLE-FA

FLE-19

JVN-11F

[Lucky Noob]

Come on Boys, we all know ,

nothing beats the Marauder II.

I realy want to like this Mech, but damm hes sooo weak.

Edited by Lucky Noob, 22 February 2021 - 08:18 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

November11th, on 28 January 2021 - 07:13 PM, said:

Blacljack loyalty mech. It has the most worthless hardpoints. And people are scoffing at poor lanny but the real crime was the Uziel which i paid for the collectors edition way back when it was new and hype and was very disappointed in how trash the mech is.

Eh, the Missile Blackjack is actually okay, it has respectable alpha. Honestly though, any short coming, that comes from the SRM weapons itself, not the mech.