50 replies to this topic

[Swamp Monster]

I have noticed that Tier 1 matches do Nascar to an extreme extent.
While lower tier matches more often tend towards other playstiles.

My hypothesis is that nascar dictates the tier rating system.

Let's have a look at why Nascar is so prevalent in the game now.
Several factors contribute to this.

Firstly: It's easy.
It requires no deeper understanding of the game, or of the specific mech, or of the mech meta overall.

Secondly: It's powerful.
This is no new strategy, it was applied in the second world war and has been ever since.
When a defence is designed to handle assault from multiple avenues of attack.
Focus all power and one point, and that one point will crumple, instantly giving the aggressor a (amongst other things)numerical advantage, that will often carry them to victory.

Thirdly: It punishes non Nascarians.
When Nascar becomes the prevalent strategy, the players who do not participate, will be the ones at the back of the Nascar, and thus will be the ones overrun by it.

Fourthly: It punishes size.
The bigger mechs are the slower mechs. They will at some point be the ones at the back of the Nascar. And thus, overrun by it.

Fifthly: It destroys attempts to counter it.
Because Nascar is the prevalent go-to strategy. To counter it you need the entire team to participate, if you fall short of “the entire team”, the Nascar will usually win.

Sixthly: It can be played on any map.
There is no map in quickplay that can not be Nascared. Not a single map was designed to force players to think, not one.

OK, so because Nascar kills anyone who does not Nascar, and rewards everyone who does. Players who Nascar will be given a higher match rating. Thus landing them at a higher tier.

This speaks to what I have noticed in the game. Higher tier games have more and heavier Nascar than lower tier games.

Moreover, it is killing assault mechs. In higher tier matches ppl more rarely play the bigger slower mechs, of course because they are the ones that will be killed by the Nascar.

Is this what pgi wants?

As newer players tend towards bigger Mightier more awesome and amazing mechs, they will quickly experience numerous bad games because of the Nascar.
This drives a lot of newer players away and is in the long and short term detrimental to the game as a whole.

I am interested to hear your thoughts.

Edited by Swamp Monster, 29 January 2021 - 06:49 AM.

[GuardDogg]

LMAO!!! Noticed the same. Why I am in T3 (staying there), and it is the best Tier. No salt and very friendly environment.

Edited by GuardDogg, 29 January 2021 - 07:26 AM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

GuardDogg, on 29 January 2021 - 07:24 AM, said:

LMAO!!! Noticed the same. Why I am in T3 (staying there), and it is the best Tier. No salt and very friendly environment.

I like salt makes food taste better and it easy to get because people are kind pathetic

[martian]

Swamp Monster, on 29 January 2021 - 06:49 AM, said:

I am interested to hear your thoughts.

Thank you for the approximately 1238th Nascar thread.

Swamp Monster, on 29 January 2021 - 06:49 AM, said:

Is this what pgi wants?

Hard to say.

We do not know if PGI still cares about MWO to any meaningful degree (probably not), so it is difficult to discuss what PGI wants.

[VonBruinwald]

It is harder to mine salt in lower tiers.

[The pessimistic optimist]

VonBruinwald, on 29 January 2021 - 07:39 AM, said:

It is harder to mine salt in lower tiers.

Why I stay in 2 just right spot to mine salt

Edited by SirSmokes, 29 January 2021 - 07:50 AM.

[Dozer6]

Swamp Monster, on 29 January 2021 - 06:49 AM, said:

I have noticed that Tier 1 matches do Nascar to an extreme extent.
While lower tier matches more often tend towards other playstiles.

My hypothesis is that nascar dictates the tier rating system.

Let's have a look at why Nascar is so prevalent in the game now.
Several factors contribute to this.

Firstly: It's easy.
It requires no deeper understanding of the game, or of the specific mech, or of the mech meta overall.

Secondly: It's powerful.
This is no new strategy, it was applied in the second world war and has been ever since.
When a defence is designed to handle assault from multiple avenues of attack.
Focus all power and one point, and that one point will crumple, instantly giving the aggressor a (amongst other things)numerical advantage, that will often carry them to victory.

Thirdly: It punishes non Nascarians.
When Nascar becomes the prevalent strategy, the players who do not participate, will be the ones at the back of the Nascar, and thus will be the ones overrun by it.

Fourthly: It punishes size.
The bigger mechs are the slower mechs. They will at some point be the ones at the back of the Nascar. And thus, overrun by it.

Fifthly: It destroys attempts to counter it.
Because Nascar is the prevalent go-to strategy. To counter it you need the entire team to participate, if you fall short of “the entire team”, the Nascar will usually win.

Sixthly: It can be played on any map.
There is no map in quickplay that can not be Nascared. Not a single map was designed to force players to think, not one.

OK, so because Nascar kills anyone who does not Nascar, and rewards everyone who does. Players who Nascar will be given a higher match rating. Thus landing them at a higher tier.

This speaks to what I have noticed in the game. Higher tier games have more and heavier Nascar than lower tier games.

Moreover, it is killing assault mechs. In higher tier matches ppl more rarely play the bigger slower mechs, of course because they are the ones that will be killed by the Nascar.

Is this what pgi wants?

As newer players tend towards bigger Mightier more awesome and amazing mechs, they will quickly experience numerous bad games because of the Nascar.
This drives a lot of newer players away and is in the long and short term detrimental to the game as a whole.

I am interested to hear your thoughts.

I,m a new player and am not discouraged at all. I actually see the nascar effect as a valid strategy at times.

BTW, next time you leave because you seem to hate nascar so much, can i have your stuff?

[martian]

Dozer6, on 29 January 2021 - 07:48 AM, said:

I,m a new player and am not discouraged at all. I actually see the nascar effect as a valid strategy at times.

BTW, next time you leave because you seem to hate nascar so much, can i have your stuff?

Hey! I asked him first!

[General Solo]

Swamp Monster, on 29 January 2021 - 06:49 AM, said:

I have noticed that Tier 1 matches do Nascar to an extreme extent.
While lower tier matches more often tend towards other playstiles.

My hypothesis is that nascar dictates the tier rating system.

Let's have a look at why Nascar is so prevalent in the game now.
Several factors contribute to this.

Firstly: It's easy.
It requires no deeper understanding of the game, or of the specific mech, or of the mech meta overall.

Secondly: It's powerful.
This is no new strategy, it was applied in the second world war and has been ever since.
When a defence is designed to handle assault from multiple avenues of attack.
Focus all power and one point, and that one point will crumple, instantly giving the aggressor a (amongst other things)numerical advantage, that will often carry them to victory.

Thirdly: It punishes non Nascarians.
When Nascar becomes the prevalent strategy, the players who do not participate, will be the ones at the back of the Nascar, and thus will be the ones overrun by it.

Fourthly: It punishes size.
The bigger mechs are the slower mechs. They will at some point be the ones at the back of the Nascar. And thus, overrun by it.

Fifthly: It destroys attempts to counter it.
Because Nascar is the prevalent go-to strategy. To counter it you need the entire team to participate, if you fall short of “the entire team”, the Nascar will usually win.

Sixthly: It can be played on any map.
There is no map in quickplay that can not be Nascared. Not a single map was designed to force players to think, not one.

OK, so because Nascar kills anyone who does not Nascar, and rewards everyone who does. Players who Nascar will be given a higher match rating. Thus landing them at a higher tier.

This speaks to what I have noticed in the game. Higher tier games have more and heavier Nascar than lower tier games.

Moreover, it is killing assault mechs. In higher tier matches ppl more rarely play the bigger slower mechs, of course because they are the ones that will be killed by the Nascar.

Is this what pgi wants?

As newer players tend towards bigger Mightier more awesome and amazing mechs, they will quickly experience numerous bad games because of the Nascar.
This drives a lot of newer players away and is in the long and short term detrimental to the game as a whole.

I am interested to hear your thoughts.

If new players start in T4 or T5 they will not experience nascar as you suggest it is rare in those Tiers
So new players should be OK
A new player in T1 is not new or extremely talented so nascar is not a problem for them.

Edited by General Solo, 29 January 2021 - 08:02 AM.

[Dozer6]

martian, on 29 January 2021 - 07:53 AM, said:

Hey! I asked him first!

Alright.. -Bows head and kicks rocks around with the foot of his bushwacker- You outrank me...
Can you share the salty wine with me though...

[Wolfos31]

It makes me curious, is MWO the only multiplayer "shooter" with such a high Time To Kill (TTK)?

I don't play multiplayer games outside of MWO. My impression of games like Call of Duty and Destiny and what not is that you die almost instantly. A headshot or a few shots in the torso and you're done. I don't get the impression that tactics like "holding ground" are very common in other shooters because there isn't really any way to absorb damage.

So, in other games, I kind of assume they are full of "nascar" as well. Constantly running around and trying to get the drop on someone so you can shoot them without being shot back. Because whoever shoots first wins.

Nascar in MWO functions pretty similarly as far as I can tell. You're constantly trying to get in a position to shoot the enemy where they can't effectively shoot you back. Fast & aggressive players are rewarded. Slower players are punished.

I don't know if it's a "problem to solve" though I'll admit I've seen some pretty ridiculous nascars in areas I never thought I'd see one. Like around the wreckage in the middle of Tourmaline Desert.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Wolfos31, on 29 January 2021 - 08:09 AM, said:

It makes me curious, is MWO the only multiplayer "shooter" with such a high Time To Kill (TTK)?

I don't play multiplayer games outside of MWO. My impression of games like Call of Duty and Destiny and what not is that you die almost instantly. A headshot or a few shots in the torso and you're done. I don't get the impression that tactics like "holding ground" are very common in other shooters because there isn't really any way to absorb damage.

So, in other games, I kind of assume they are full of "nascar" as well. Constantly running around and trying to get the drop on someone so you can shoot them without being shot back. Because whoever shoots first wins.

Nascar in MWO functions pretty similarly as far as I can tell. You're constantly trying to get in a position to shoot the enemy where they can't effectively shoot you back. Fast & aggressive players are rewarded. Slower players are punished.

I don't know if it's a "problem to solve" though I'll admit I've seen some pretty ridiculous nascars in areas I never thought I'd see one. Like around the wreckage in the middle of Tourmaline Desert.

This game has more in common with world of tanks then Call of Duty

[martian]

Dozer6, on 29 January 2021 - 08:04 AM, said:

Alright.. -Bows head and kicks rocks around with the foot of his bushwacker- You outrank me...
Can you share the salty wine with me though...

Do not worry. With some effort you be in Tier 1 soon.

[K O Z A K]

Swamp Monster, on 29 January 2021 - 06:49 AM, said:

IS THE TIER RATING BASED ON NASCAR?

Yes, you cannot be tier one until you learn the "fine art" of turning right, cowardly running away and turning left wide

[The pessimistic optimist]

Hazeclaw, on 29 January 2021 - 08:24 AM, said:

Yes, you cannot be tier one until you learn the "fine art" of turning right, cowardly running away and turning left wide

Why piloting slow assaults sucks. Were the hell did everyone go OH **** that the whole enemy team I am screwed

Edited by SirSmokes, 29 January 2021 - 08:26 AM.

[K O Z A K]

SirSmokes, on 29 January 2021 - 08:25 AM, said:

Why piloting slow assaults sucks. Were the hell did everyone go OH **** that the whole enemy team I am screwed

you can totally be an ***** like everyone else and nascar with assault mechs (most of the time), just pick the most optimal line towards the front of the nascar, and keep your hands off the brakes

Edited by Hazeclaw, 29 January 2021 - 08:34 AM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Hazeclaw, on 29 January 2021 - 08:34 AM, said:

you can totally be an ***** like everyone else and nascar with assault mechs (most of the time), just pick the most optimal line towards the front of the nascar, and keep your hands off the brakes

True but it's super easy to get left at tail end and get eaten up

[General Solo]

Wolfos31, on 29 January 2021 - 08:09 AM, said:

It makes me curious, is MWO the only multiplayer "shooter" with such a high Time To Kill (TTK)?

I don't play multiplayer games outside of MWO. My impression of games like Call of Duty and Destiny and what not is that you die almost instantly. A headshot or a few shots in the torso and you're done. I don't get the impression that tactics like "holding ground" are very common in other shooters because there isn't really any way to absorb damage.

So, in other games, I kind of assume they are full of "nascar" as well. Constantly running around and trying to get the drop on someone so you can shoot them without being shot back. Because whoever shoots first wins.

Nascar in MWO functions pretty similarly as far as I can tell. You're constantly trying to get in a position to shoot the enemy where they can't effectively shoot you back. Fast & aggressive players are rewarded. Slower players are punished.

I don't know if it's a "problem to solve" though I'll admit I've seen some pretty ridiculous nascars in areas I never thought I'd see one. Like around the wreckage in the middle of Tourmaline Desert.

Not a problem per se
But a functionally working match maker could ease the pain for those unable to deal with NASCAR
As they would be matched with others who are unable to deal with NASCAR

And the nascar people would be matched with similar pilots
imo

[Willard Phule]

From what I've seen, NASCAR is the direct result of people simply trying to move and get a shot at the bad guys.

When the people in front start backing up with no regard to who may be behind them, the guys in the rear tend to move off to the side to get out of the way. and when they start backing up, the whole thing starts over again. It's simply a cause and effect thing.

Some of the weapon systems and chassis out there play into the effect a lot. For example, LRMs apparently can't be fired until you come to a complete stop and automatically cause your mech to back up while you fire them, no matter the range between the firing unit and the target. Most assaults also have that "cannot fire until the mech has come to a complete stop" feature as well. None of this is conducive to teamwork, it makes you wonder why they were designed that way.

Edited by Willard Phule, 29 January 2021 - 08:53 AM.

[General Solo]

Hazeclaw, on 29 January 2021 - 08:24 AM, said:

Yes, you cannot be tier one until you learn the "fine art" of turning right, cowardly running away and turning left wide

Some cowardly club seals in Faction Play
But...Each coward to their own
That word coward...sounds like cheap and other scrub speech