69 replies to this topic

[VonBruinwald]

SirSmokes, on 03 February 2021 - 05:56 AM, said:

How that work? So a group of 4 man pro drop in murder low tier guys and that group has no effect on there ability to perform find there true PSR how that work? How that not throwing PSR out wack for some players? So you have to drop group to get true PSR?

A 4-man of T3's can get to T1 using teamwork to compensate for personal skill.

If they then drop solo they get mashed because their "group PSR" (T1) isn't the same as their "individual" PSR (T3) and they get placed in T1 matches.

If you want a good example of this Jarl a few of the T1 forum badges. Quite a few had a sudden drop in games out outright stopped playing once they reached T1.

[The pessimistic optimist]

VonBruinwald, on 03 February 2021 - 06:34 AM, said:

A 4-man of T3's can get to T1 using teamwork to compensate for personal skill.

If they then drop solo they get mashed because their "group PSR" (T1) isn't the same as their "individual" PSR (T3) and they get placed in T1 matches.

If you want a good example of this Jarl a few of the T1 forum badges. Quite a few had a sudden drop in games out outright stopped playing once they reached T1.

What I thought so it like oil and water mixing solo and group

Edited by SirSmokes, 03 February 2021 - 06:39 AM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Willard Phule, on 03 February 2021 - 06:13 AM, said:

PSR is based off of match score, correct? Winning gives you a higher score than losing. So much so that only the top 2 people on a losing team stand a chance at PSR increase.

This is a false generalization. See the examples in Brios' video about the new PSR system.
https://youtu.be/JFqlZXOVtdw

[The pessimistic optimist]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 03 February 2021 - 06:41 AM, said:

This is a false generalization. See the examples in Brios' video about the new PSR system.
https://youtu.be/JFqlZXOVtdw

Just not getting how solo play vs team play doesn't throw PSR out of wack. It's like single branch is not as strong as group of branchs held together.

Edited by SirSmokes, 03 February 2021 - 07:07 AM.

[w0qj]

Welcome back to MWO!

Curious, just how did you manage to add a photo/picture of you choice onto your mech?
Is it done with MC ?

Heard this can be done in the very early days of MWO, but think this cannot be done now?
(ie: nowadays we *cannot* put our custom picture onto our mech?)

B L O O D W I T C H, on 02 February 2021 - 03:07 PM, said:

Returnee here.
How come i'm down to tier 5, is this a bug or was there some sort of hard reset (all the way down to tier5?).
I'm a bit confused to say the least :s


Gaah.. it's even on my forum tag, i feel like a filthy casual >_<

[VonBruinwald]

SirSmokes, on 03 February 2021 - 07:06 AM, said:

Just not getting how solo play vs team play doesn't throw PSR out of wack. It's like single branch is not as strong as group of branchs held together.

If a group of players always play as a group it shouldn't throw the matchmaker out of whack,the problem is when those groups form and disband.

A 4-man of T3's with a group skill equivalent to T1 are going to have an unfair advantage when they form up because the MM is underestimating their combined abilities and placing them in T3 matches..

Conversely, once that group grinds up to T1. If they disband and play solo they're going to hold their team back because the MM is assuming that they're T1 capable players.

The MM treats group and individual PSR as if they're the same thing. The reason the MM is out of whack is because teams are constantly forming, disbanding and reforming with different members. Opening the valves further compounds the issues because it prioritizes group size over skill. If there's a 4-man in T2 and the only other 4-man is in T4 it places them on opposite sides because group size has priority.

Edited by VonBruinwald, 03 February 2021 - 08:36 AM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

LordNothing, on 02 February 2021 - 08:29 PM, said:

so you are mad you have to club seals for a week before getting to the appropriate tier for your skill. id be putting four inch spikes on my louisville slugger. leave no seal unclubbed.

This. Not really mad but i'm not looking forward to it either. tier 3-4 is one thing but tier 5? That just feels wrong.
Appearently it's not taking that long to grind back up, i might give it a shot (kinda curious if my old tier 1 badge had a meaning or not).

Ngl, i was pretty dumbfounded yesterday, finding out i got reset into special needs classes >.<
Than again, my own fault for not checking in for a year.

w0qj, on 03 February 2021 - 07:38 AM, said:

Welcome back to MWO!

Curious, just how did you manage to add a photo/picture of you choice onto your mech?
Is it done with MC ?

Thank you. It's a normal decal, nothing custom or uploaded.
I can look for the name but i think you can find it fairly easily under faces if i recall correctly.

VonBruinwald, on 03 February 2021 - 04:50 AM, said:

Std. 60 or bust.

I was thinking a couple of Double barrelled deputies.

Since i calmed down a bit, i'll probably retract the offer (not sure if i can actually make that offer, haven't checked the coc)
However, if you two are still interested in a money match, i can offer 1/3 billion c-bills for your unit coffer. Since my unit appearently got deleted (thanks PGI!).

Edited by B L O O D W I T C H, 06 February 2021 - 01:29 AM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

VonBruinwald, on 03 February 2021 - 08:35 AM, said:

If a group of players always play as a group it shouldn't throw the matchmaker out of whack,the problem is when those groups form and disband.

A 4-man of T3's with a group skill equivalent to T1 are going to have an unfair advantage when they form up because the MM is underestimating their combined abilities and placing them in T3 matches..

Conversely, once that group grinds up to T1. If they disband and play solo they're going to hold their team back because the MM is assuming that they're T1 capable players.

The MM treats group and individual PSR as if they're the same thing. The reason the MM is out of whack is because teams are constantly forming, disbanding and reforming with different members. Opening the valves further compounds the issues because it prioritizes group size over skill. If there's a 4-man in T2 and the only other 4-man is in T4 it places them on opposite sides because group size has priority.

Yea what I was thinking its common sense. If you have a group you know each other and you work well together it a force multiplier

Edited by SirSmokes, 03 February 2021 - 08:58 AM.

[VonBruinwald]

B L O O D W I T C H, on 03 February 2021 - 08:55 AM, said:

Since i calmed down a bit, i'll probably retract the offer (not sure if i can actually make that offer, haven't checked the coc)
However, if you two are still interested in a money match, i can offer 1/3 billion c-bills for your unit coffer. Since my unit appearently got deleted (thanks PGI!).

No trading between accounts I'm afraid. I reckon support would make an exception if you wanted to trade something like a founders/gold mech between two accounts you owned but not to 3rd parties I'm afraid.

Best thing I could recommend with a 1/3 billion CBills is Urbies.... lots and lots of Urbies.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

So, i've sinned and touched some heavy gauss and a dakka MCII.. bye bye tier 5 in 3 games.
(gosh that felt wrong tho)

Edit: like, you shoot someone and they just turn around and look at you. Nothing, no shooting, no moving. They just turn and stare at you with big puffy mech eyes.

Edited by B L O O D W I T C H, 03 February 2021 - 09:08 AM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

B L O O D W I T C H, on 03 February 2021 - 09:06 AM, said:

So, i've sinned and touched some heavy gauss and a dakka MCII.. bye bye tier 5 in 3 games.
(gosh that felt wrong tho)

Club those baby seals badly did we?

[VonBruinwald]

B L O O D W I T C H, on 03 February 2021 - 09:06 AM, said:

So, i've sinned and touched some heavy gauss and a dakka MCII.. bye bye tier 5 in 3 games.
(gosh that felt wrong tho)

Edit: like, you shoot someone and they just turn around and look at you. Nothing, no shooting, no moving. They just turn and stare at you with big puffy mech eyes.

Yeah, it sucks that you got to stomp 'em. Aim for T3 then stop, that's the sweat spot, the only thing that awaits you in the higher tiers is more meta, more nascar and more salt.

[RickySpanish]

VonBruinwald, on 03 February 2021 - 09:17 AM, said:

Yeah, it sucks that you got to stomp 'em. Aim for T3 then stop, that's the sweat spot, the only thing that awaits you in the higher tiers is more meta, more nascar and more salt.

Problem is that you can't just stop in T3. No way would I let some pleb in a RAC 5 Fafnir take me out just to keep my PSR steady. It's all the way to T1 for you OP. And yes, the salt is real.

[Willard Phule]

SirSmokes, on 03 February 2021 - 06:17 AM, said:

Still that really mean if your are not in a group you are at serous disadvantage at getting that top player score. Do you think you have a chance of get a higher player score when you are a disadvantage? So match score is not effect by being disadvantage because there a four man pro team on the other side? Or you are all solo and the other side has groups?

Match score is based on a whole bunch of things, consisting primarily of damage and kills plus all sorts of other stuff like counter ecm, etc. I'd have thought you already knew that. Groups don't change any of that.

A team with a 4 man group of experienced guys that are used to playing together have an advantage over 4 random idiots slapped together. One would think that's a given. Whatever weight that has is applied to a 12 man team they're made part of. If the other team doesn't have a corresponding amount of weight, then one team has an advantage.

The opposite side of that coin is a group of 4 T5 guys that just downloaded the game. Since the MM doesn't care about Tier level with groups, those poor saps find themselves in a T1 drop almost every time. Again, in that instance, one team has an advantage. It just is.

Aidan Crenshaw, on 03 February 2021 - 06:41 AM, said:

This is a false generalization. See the examples in Brios' video about the new PSR system.
https://youtu.be/JFqlZXOVtdw

I know, but it's close enough. Ultimately, the match score is the primary driver for PSR change. We both did the grind after the reset.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Willard Phule, on 03 February 2021 - 10:07 AM, said:

Match score is based on a whole bunch of things, consisting primarily of damage and kills plus all sorts of other stuff like counter ecm, etc. I'd have thought you already knew that. Groups don't change any of that.

A team with a 4 man group of experienced guys that are used to playing together have an advantage over 4 random idiots slapped together. One would think that's a given. Whatever weight that has is applied to a 12 man team they're made part of. If the other team doesn't have a corresponding amount of weight, then one team has an advantage.

The opposite side of that coin is a group of 4 T5 guys that just downloaded the game. Since the MM doesn't care about Tier level with groups, those poor saps find themselves in a T1 drop almost every time. Again, in that instance, one team has an advantage. It just is.



I know, but it's close enough. Ultimately, the match score is the primary driver for PSR change. We both did the grind after the reset.

But a team working well together is more then sum of individuals skill. "In military science, force multiplication or a force multiplier refers to a factor or a combination of factors that gives personnel or weapons the ability to accomplish greater feats than without it. The expected size increase required to have the same effectiveness without that advantage is the multiplication factor" how dose that not throw off things for solo drops vs team droppers?

Edited by SirSmokes, 03 February 2021 - 10:40 AM.

[VonBruinwald]

Willard Phule, on 03 February 2021 - 10:07 AM, said:

A team with a 4 man group of experienced guys that are used to playing together have an advantage over 4 random idiots slapped together. One would think that's a given.

Given. Teamwork=OP

Willard Phule, on 03 February 2021 - 10:07 AM, said:

The opposite side of that coin is a group of 4 T5 guys that just downloaded the game. Since the MM doesn't care about Tier level with groups, those poor saps find themselves in a T1 drop almost every time.

This is where your argument falls apart, or what you're trying to skate around:

4 T5 guys that just downloaded the game and playing as a group are going to have an advantage over 4 T5 guys that just downloaded the game and are playing solo.



Your deflection that the MM is placing T5 group up against T1 groups is a different problem. And the solution to that particular problem is to either force tier separation and increase wait times for T1's (with the possibility of launching a match with only one/uneven group(s) present), or, to separate the queues again and remove that issue from the pug queue.

[Anomalocaris]

RickySpanish, on 03 February 2021 - 10:02 AM, said:

Problem is that you can't just stop in T3. No way would I let some pleb in a RAC 5 Fafnir take me out just to keep my PSR steady. It's all the way to T1 for you OP. And yes, the salt is real.

If someone were really sneaky, they'd figure out how many matches they had to tank to get past the initial seeding boost. And then figure out how often they needed to disco to offset their wins (or alternately how often to play a NARC raven and not fire a dmg dealing weapon).

Might be able to club seals for months then.....

[B L O O D W I T C H]

new matchscore/psr thingy is weird.
I've played a slash marauder with 1 kill + assists on a win and got 600 matchscore (no uav/takdowns)
now i played a dual 20s warhammer, literally mauled half the enemy team with precision shots and i got 380 matchscore.
Like what? Appearently raw damage is the way to go for climbing.

[Gagis]

the system overvalues both raw damage and AMS missiles destroyed by a bit, but 380 is still a very good match score.

[Willard Phule]

SirSmokes, on 03 February 2021 - 10:40 AM, said:

But a team working well together is more then sum of individuals skill. "In military science, force multiplication or a force multiplier refers to a factor or a combination of factors that gives personnel or weapons the ability to accomplish greater feats than without it. The expected size increase required to have the same effectiveness without that advantage is the multiplication factor" how dose that not throw off things for solo drops vs team droppers?

Never said it didn't. Allowing groups into QP turned it into the new comp group queue, which I have no problem with beyond the denial that it's still QP. In fact, I think they should open QP up to full 12 man premade groups just like FP.

But, there's a HUGE difference between four T1 comp group guys running around in Vulcans, harvesting derps and four T5 guys running around in LRM assaults. In the first instance, the team with the premade has a distinct advantage while in the latter, the team WITHOUT the premade has one. See how that works? In one instance, it's a benefit to have them, in the other it's a liability.