211 replies to this topic

[The pessimistic optimist]

Kroete, on 07 February 2021 - 03:33 AM, said:

There was less ammo,
then the people moaned enough about lrms and the ammo count was increased with some other changes.

You wanted lrms changed and you got them changed,
no bending, no skill to hit people under roofs needed, more effective ams, better ecm
and more ammo and less heat for more spamming with these skill reducing changes and better counters.
Artemis got nerfed, 2 or 4 tons for more ammo or tubes are better now then artemis,
Tag dont decrease locktime anymore? No problem, its a ton of ammo for spamming now.

You wanted this!

All what was needed to make lrms ok was 10% flightspeed, but we got all that changes and that made them more spammy and less skillfull. But you wanted this!

I said this before the patches and now its even more true: No ams, no cry!

Counters that are in the game now are fine and work if people used them. I seen clouds of missiles get evaporated by heavy AMS. And you don't need to stop all the missiles for AMS to be effective if you have enough to take out just half the missiles there DPS is well cut in half> I ALWAYS take tag on LRM mechs ECM and tighter grouping on line of sigh. Problem is my meta I don't want to change the way I play so please change the weapon system for me so I don't have to adapt

Edited by SirSmokes, 07 February 2021 - 04:13 AM.

[dario03]

Nerf the counters.
Nerf the weapons.
Make lock on more skill based. Easy to use, hard to master.

The problem with their effectiveness and player's negative views on them (especially idf mode) is that a large part of its performance is determined by the other player's builds in the game. You get a open map with friendly tag/narc and the enemy has little ecm/ams you will do lots of damage. Less open map, no friendly tag/narc, lots of enemy ecm/ams you will not do much damage. So in those situations its feast or famine, and what the lrmboat does will have little effect on it. For the most part in both cases the lrmer just makes sure its in a decent position and not firing into a wall.

With a more skill based system, input from the lrmer would matter more. And with nerfed counters/weapons it will be less feast or famine so performance will more so be effected by user input. This would also lower the annoyance factor to lrmers when there are lots of counters, and to the enemy when they are facing a lot of lrms with few counters. And if a system was skill based enough then playing against it might be more fun. Right now coming across somebody who is focusing a component at range with erppc, or is spreading damage well in a brawl can be fun to play against because you can recognize the skill and have fun trying to overcome it, its engaging gameplay. Against a lrmer (especially a big anchored boat) you don't really get that, its just oh this lrmer is staring at me and the weapon is determining where it hits.
Ever end up in a one v one with a near mirror build? I think most would have more fun when they were in a erppc or brawl build because that would have a sense of accomplishment that is lacking from current lock-ons. But if lock ons had a more skill based system, then you would have it there too.

[The pessimistic optimist]

dario03, on 07 February 2021 - 05:40 AM, said:

Nerf the counters.
Nerf the weapons.
Make lock on more skill based. Easy to use, hard to master.

The problem with their effectiveness and player's negative views on them (especially idf mode) is that a large part of its performance is determined by the other player's builds in the game. You get a open map with friendly tag/narc and the enemy has little ecm/ams you will do lots of damage. Less open map, no friendly tag/narc, lots of enemy ecm/ams you will not do much damage. So in those situations its feast or famine, and what the lrmboat does will have little effect on it. For the most part in both cases the lrmer just makes sure its in a decent position and not firing into a wall.

With a more skill based system, input from the lrmer would matter more. And with nerfed counters/weapons it will be less feast or famine so performance will more so be effected by user input. This would also lower the annoyance factor to lrmers when there are lots of counters, and to the enemy when they are facing a lot of lrms with few counters. And if a system was skill based enough then playing against it might be more fun. Right now coming across somebody who is focusing a component at range with erppc, or is spreading damage well in a brawl can be fun to play against because you can recognize the skill and have fun trying to overcome it, its engaging gameplay. Against a lrmer (especially a big anchored boat) you don't really get that, its just oh this lrmer is staring at me and the weapon is determining where it hits.
Ever end up in a one v one with a near mirror build? I think most would have more fun when they were in a erppc or brawl build because that would have a sense of accomplishment that is lacking from current lock-ons. But if lock ons had a more skill based system, then you would have it there too.

If they want to make it harder to get locks I am fine with it. Got an idea make it so there a little box when trying to get locks small little target you have to hold aim on to get and keep the lock. The size can be based on mech speed so fast moving light get a bigger box then 100 tonner. So you will have to aim and keep on aim to maintain that lock. There is skill to using LRMs if your any good it all about how and were you move know when to start backing up to put distance between you and your target. You want to be as close as you can get so they can't just run to cover. Knowing when not to shots not to waste ammo on target you will miss. Knowing when to pop out to get LOS shot for better grouping. Good LRM builds also have direct fire back up weapons for LOS shots to try and make weak spots in the armor so you can punch a hole it it so you can crit it with missiles

Edited by SirSmokes, 07 February 2021 - 06:26 AM.

[Kroete]

SirSmokes, on 07 February 2021 - 04:07 AM, said:

Problem is my meta I don't want to change the way I play so please change the weapon system for me so I don't have to adapt

The people asked for changes, they got less skill, better counters and more spam for lrms.
But they still dont take ams and cry in the forum about lrms ...

Until we have at least an average of 24 ams in a match, lrms need buffs not more nerfs!

Edited by Kroete, 07 February 2021 - 05:51 AM.

[VonBruinwald]

Kroete, on 07 February 2021 - 05:49 AM, said:

The people asked for changes, they got less skill, better counters and more spam for lrms.
But they still dont take ams and cry in the forum about lrms ...

Until we have at least an average of 24 ams in a match, lrms need buffs not more nerfs!

This is the irony, you see people crying about lurms on the forums and when you see them in game they don't have AMS equipped.

What makes it worse is the fact that "good" players think hiding behind a rock is the best defence. Granted it is if you're playing selfishly but to snip:

VonBruinwald, on 07 February 2021 - 04:03 AM, said:

AMS has a range of ~200m when targeting you.
When you see someone getting lurmed, position yourself between them and the lurmer and your AMS gets 400m of missile chewing goodness!

...

Active positioning is the key to maximum effectiveness.

Even if you're cowering behind a rock AMS will shoot down enemy missiles targeting friendlies. Heaven forbid protecting your teammates from the lurms.

Edited by VonBruinwald, 07 February 2021 - 05:57 AM.

[Vellron2005]

SirSmokes, on 07 February 2021 - 12:00 AM, said:

Not dumping just trying find away to placate the people that cry about them all the time

The people that cry about them all the time are the people who roll in SRM face-hug range brawlers. It's like being in the military and crying about you wanting to stab people so the enemy should not use cruise missiles.

It's absurd.

If you ask me, the only thing that should be adjusted in terms of LRM/ATM is the way 4 AMS can shoot down LRM80/ATM24. It's a few tons that defeats a whole mech's worth of weapons and is OP.

Alternatively, they need to bring back LRM bending.. That was a high skill / high reward technique that made LRM-ing an artform. It's something that was lost needlessly.

Edited by Vellron2005, 07 February 2021 - 06:07 AM.

[ThreeStooges]

SirSmokes, on 06 February 2021 - 05:05 AM, said:

I know some players here don't like LRMs and ATMs ability to spam loads of missiles. With mech loaded down with ungodly numbers of missiles. How about once you reach a certain amount in the mech you reach a threshold were if you get hit internally an ammo explosion is a guaranteed. It would make carrying huge amount of ammo a huge liability. If you carry too much ammo and take a lot hits you WILL blow up. It would encourage player to carry less ammo making them less spammy and make people little more careful with were and when they fire and if they want to spam loads they better be careful. Also it don't matter if you fire all the way down to a single ton left if that take internal hit it blows. Thoughts?

No. I will cram as much ammo as my IS mechs allow. Clans already get half weight on everything and can afford to spam all the want. Then they get more with the ammo nodes. Go nerf dual hgr builds or the heavy laser barf hellbringers. No one is crying about their op-ness.

[Swamp Butt]

Or get pushed out from hiding when the PIR comes around to hunt you!

[The pessimistic optimist]

Swamp *** MkII, on 07 February 2021 - 09:32 AM, said:

Or get pushed out from hiding when the PIR comes around to hunt you!

Why I stay near the team just behind them. Bad players stay way back

[Wildstreak]

Since when is this a thing and what is with all the myths?

[The pessimistic optimist]

Wildstreak, on 07 February 2021 - 11:25 AM, said:

Since when is this a thing and what is with all the myths?

Talk to some of the comp guys you have to ask them

[General Solo]

Am I the only one that still does not have a problem with LRM's
Or use AMS
Legit 62% T1

[The pessimistic optimist]

General Solo, on 07 February 2021 - 03:42 PM, said:

Am I the only one that still does not have a problem with LRM's
Or use AMS
Legit 62% T1

You still think Jarls list is not worthless? *shugs* You should ask PGI for a leader board that as some real meaning

Edited by SirSmokes, 07 February 2021 - 04:17 PM.

[PocketYoda]

VonBruinwald, on 07 February 2021 - 04:03 AM, said:

AMS does work, but it isn't a hard counter. It's designed to mitigate damage not to prevent it completely. The biggest issue is people don't use it properly, they play selfishly and use it as a passive defence rather than an active one.

AMS has a range of ~200m when targeting you.
When you see someone getting lurmed, position yourself between them and the lurmer and your AMS gets 400m of missile chewing goodness!

A 4x AMS Corsair at the back is ok, a 4x AMS Corsair on the front is amazing. For reference I run a 2x LAMS Panther and regularly take out ~400 missiles per match with proper positioning and sufficient enemy LRMS. Last night I managed to shoot down 718 with a dual LAMS Firestarter (there's a trend here) and I only had one AMS node unlocked. Was a toasty match.

Active positioning is the key to maximum effectiveness.

I was right in the middle of our team.. 498 missiles destroyed..

[General Solo]

SirSmokes, on 07 February 2021 - 04:15 PM, said:

You still think Jarls list is not worthless? *shugs* You should ask PGI for a leader board that as some real meaning

I have been hearing that since the Jarls list website was created
Mostly from bad players and worse forum warriors
True Story

Edited by General Solo, 07 February 2021 - 11:13 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

General Solo, on 07 February 2021 - 11:13 PM, said:

I have been hearing that since the Jarls list website was created
Mostly from bad players and worse forum warriors
True Story

Its worthless you add up all MWO game changes on top of mixing and unmixing of solo and group cue were some players drop almost exclusively in teams working together it becomes kind of meaning less. Then you have to add individual motivation to main stats like always dropping is the best builds vs dicking around in the less then best builds for fun vs people always putting in maximum effort at all times. *shurgs* oh well

Edited by SirSmokes, 08 February 2021 - 12:27 AM.

[Handley Page]

Quote

Its worthless you add up all MWO game changes on top of mixing and unmixing of solo and group cue were some players drop almost exclusively in teams working together it becomes kind of meaning less.

If they were getting carried then their K/D would show, and while you do get more MS on wins its not that much of an increase so its still a good metric to judge someone.

Quote

Then you have to add individual motivation to main stats like always dropping is the best builds vs dicking around in the less then best builds for fun

Good players can run even bad stuff and perform, so if you need to run the best builds to do well you're likely not very good yourself

Quote

vs people always putting in maximum effort at all times. *shurgs* oh well

Its a competitive game, why would you not being putting in as much effort as possible?

[The pessimistic optimist]

Handley Page, on 08 February 2021 - 12:43 AM, said:

If they were getting carried then their K/D would show, and while you do get more MS on wins its not that much of an increase so its still a good metric to judge someone.


Good players can run even bad stuff and perform, so if you need to run the best builds to do well you're likely not very good yourself


Its a competitive game, why would you not being putting in as much effort as possible?

Even well high on hash and 151 rum and cokes? Seems like that might effect the stats *shurgs* because I don't care if my stats are Fed is why some don't put in maximum effort. It is a cudgel to beat people over the head with to try and delegitimize them. Love see someone drink this rocket fuel and hit anything LMAO https://ibb.co/y0WdkMt
Or this stuff HA HA http://ibb.co/hWHFWKV

Edited by SirSmokes, 08 February 2021 - 01:15 AM.

[Mochyn Pupur]

SirSmokes, on 06 February 2021 - 05:05 AM, said:

I know some players here don't like LRMs and ATMs ability to spam loads of missiles. With mech loaded down with ungodly numbers of missiles. How about once you reach a certain amount in the mech you reach a threshold were if you get hit internally an ammo explosion is a guaranteed. It would make carrying huge amount of ammo a huge liability. If you carry too much ammo and take a lot hits you WILL blow up. It would encourage player to carry less ammo making them less spammy and make people little more careful with were and when they fire and if they want to spam loads they better be careful. Also it don't matter if you fire all the way down to a single ton left if that take internal hit it blows. Thoughts?

CASE

Case closed

[The pessimistic optimist]

PeppaPig, on 08 February 2021 - 02:18 AM, said:

CASE

Case closed

Forgot about case don't see many ammo based builds us it. It get in the way of min maxing and if your doing well you should be running threw your ammo before it blows you up unless you get really unlucky early game. Also why legs are one my favor targets for ammo based builds people love to put ammo in them

Edited by SirSmokes, 08 February 2021 - 03:25 AM.