95 replies to this topic

[VonBruinwald]

SirSmokes, on 15 February 2021 - 11:34 AM, said:

I don't want them to be worse I just want to find a smart way to fix the complaints people have about them and they have complaints I have heard plenty trust me. People that take there own need LOS to use those. So how much worse should the spread be?

I don't think they need to be fixed.

The current meta is all or nothing. AMS is there to counter LRMs but most players won't take it unless they're running a 3x or 4x build.

There's no point in further nerfing LRMs until we start seeing 6+ AMS equipped mechs on the field every game. Until then it's a case of people having a counter on hand and choosing not to use it (then complaining).

There's also a bad mentality amongst LRM haters that AMS should completely negate LRMs but that's not the case, it's there to reduce damage, not prevent it completely.

Edited by VonBruinwald, 15 February 2021 - 12:34 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

VonBruinwald, on 15 February 2021 - 12:34 PM, said:

I don't think they need to be fixed.

The current meta is all or nothing. AMS is there to counter LRMs but most players won't take it unless they're running a 3x or 4x build.

There's no point in further nerfing LRMs until we start seeing 6+ AMS equipped mechs on the field every game. Until then it's a case of people having a counter on hand and choosing not to use it (then complaining).

There's also a bad mentality amongst LRM haters that AMS should completely negate LRMs but that's not the case, it's there to reduce damage, not prevent it completely.

I know

[Heavy Money]

I'm still not clear on why there's all this talk of nerfing LRMs when they are barely relevant once you leave t5. Sure it stands out when a narc scout and several LRM boats coordinate, but the same number of people coordinating with other loadouts is more dangerous. The LRM focus is just more noticeable.

Not to say that LRMs couldn't be more interesting if overhauled. But this idea that there's a big problem in the game due to them is wrong, so messing with them a bunch isn't going to cause some big improvement.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Heavy Money, on 15 February 2021 - 12:42 PM, said:

I'm still not clear on why there's all this talk of nerfing LRMs when they are barely relevant once you leave t5. Sure it stands out when a narc scout and several LRM boats coordinate, but the same number of people coordinating with other loadouts is more dangerous. The LRM focus is just more noticeable.

Not to say that LRMs couldn't be more interesting if overhauled. But this idea that there's a big problem in the game due to them is wrong, so messing with them a bunch isn't going to cause some big improvement.

I didn't start it LordNothing start taking about election warfare and LRM are part of that

Edited by SirSmokes, 15 February 2021 - 12:48 PM.

[ThreeStooges]

Pgi is the sole reason any thing is bad in this game. They are the ones with access to the code to do anything to the game and even they don't know how to use any of it as their code was made years ago by programers who long since left pgi.

What killed fp the most? Long tom. What makes qp crap now? Allowing groups to farm the solos and having tier 1s fight players still with the green C cadet tag...you know what? Pgi has never cared so why should any of us? Let eg7 deal with it once the sale is done.

[ScrapIron Prime]

ThreeStooges, on 15 February 2021 - 02:20 PM, said:

Pgi is the sole reason any thing is bad in this game.

Well by that logic, they're also the sole reason for anything good in the game.

Not that I'm a standard bearer or anything, and there have certainly been missteps and unpopular changes. But let's face it, with a dwindling player base, if you want to keep 12v12 quick-play drops going, they had to open up the matchmaker to its current farming mode. If they didn't, higher tier players would wait forever for a drop.

The roadmap includes looking at bringing back 8v8 mode. That could very well be their attempt at shoring up the matchmaker with a smaller player base. Less people per match would allow for a narrower selection of players and might result in more balanced play.

The operative word being "might". But hey, if they want to try and fix it, I'm willing to let them.

PS... Crusader. Still want one. Will buy mech pack.

[LordNothing]

VeritasSuperOmnia, on 15 February 2021 - 07:55 AM, said:

Thank you for expounding on my original point. For the sake of ADHD I kept my post short, but you have beautifully articulated the details that would make the game much better.

i was also very drunk.

[PocketYoda]

VeritasSuperOmnia, on 14 February 2021 - 06:24 PM, said:

1) The core mechanics of armor and weapons (Battletech and older MW games) were based around having far less cover than is provided in game. This is the reason stupid things like lights and mediums owning heavier mechs in trades exists. Lots of cover = more opportunities to fire and duck behind something before a heavier mech can even rotate to see where it's been shot from. This also exacerbates poptarting (currently of the ATM and 3xERPPC variety). The excess of cover on most maps also is the core reason why NASCAR exists. Less cover would mean longer sight lines and and an element of real danger when trying to flank right non-stop i.e. NASCAR. This is also the reason why heavies like the Timberwolf are in such a bad place right now as Sean Lang referenced in his thread and video, as they have neither the agility to avoid incoming fire nor the armor to take the repeated hits from being a big slow moving target.

2) The lack of tactical objectives on the maps. Battletech and MW games in general are adaptations of real world battles. In battles you have specific weapons platforms for fulfilling specific objectives. In older iterations of the game, more tonnage your mech had, the more dangerous is was, but it could no longer fulfill some of the tactical requirements. Want to bring a Direwolf to this escort mission? Too bad, that hovertrain you're supposed to be pacing just gapped you and got blown up by enemy units because your mech wasn't fast enough to engage the enemy. This is no longer true as the lack of playing for objectives has made every MWO game into team deathmatch and as a result the only thing that matters is a mech's lethality. Why would you bring a Raven to the game for it's scouting and NARC capabilities, when you can drop in a Flea that is so fast and agile it can effectively survive more damage thrown its direction that an Annihilator? Why bring a Charger to the game when the need to cover large distances to rapidly redeploy assets in response to new scouting information is not something that happens in MWO? Just bring an assault that is fast enough not to get NASCAR'd on with the best hitboxes and pod space (cough MCMK2).

The problems with chassis and weapon balance will be much easier to sort out if these two things are addressed first. The only major tweek I see that would be needed is to increase the CD of LRMs to the point where they are long range fire support systems again rather than DPS systems. I think you'll find that everything else will fall into place nicely. I implore PGI to set aside development time for new/reworked maps and implementing game modes that incorporate tactical objectives. You will breathe new life into the game if you do this.

I agree as a tabletop player this game is complete ***, but i can't see it changing any time soon, the FPS customers enjoy the current version far to much and have a firm grip on the devs.. I honestly cannot ever seeing this game be anthing more than it is already..

Its about as Battletech as Call of Duty.. but the modern players seem to love the ADHD gameplay sadly. I enjoy the stompy mechs but i don't ever expect a good battletech experience out of this game.. the TTK is to fast and the design is all wrong.

Enjoy it for what it is or move on imo, thats about the extent of it.

SirSmokes, on 15 February 2021 - 07:55 AM, said:

My idea would be this tagged targets get a strong lock and narc targets get a strong lock. But say a single mech is targeting a mech on it's own that would be a weak lock for LRMs. If more mechs lock the same target 2 mechs on same target it's a medium lock. But you would need 4 mechs locked on the same target to get that strong lock. This way someone can't just sit back with a mech locked on a single target and do full damage. It would make LRM mechs want to try and get there own locks more and if it's a team working together they need tag or narc or all those mechs locked on the same target.




LMAO those walls of text make my eyes and brain burst in to flames. I read words as a whole so walls of text its hard to focus for me it like trying to read anything all at once

I wish i could upvote this a thousand times.. Pugs would have to learn team work or be killed.

VonBruinwald, on 15 February 2021 - 12:34 PM, said:

I don't think they need to be fixed.

The current meta is all or nothing. AMS is there to counter LRMs but most players won't take it unless they're running a 3x or 4x build.

There's no point in further nerfing LRMs until we start seeing 6+ AMS equipped mechs on the field every game. Until then it's a case of people having a counter on hand and choosing not to use it (then complaining).

There's also a bad mentality amongst LRM haters that AMS should completely negate LRMs but that's not the case, it's there to reduce damage, not prevent it completely.

Most don't take it because either the omni pods have excluded it or the boatload of weapons needed to pad your damage to get a positive PSR exclude it.. I know damage to get a psr uptick is wrong but the perception is there and in some ways it does work currently, damage kills, damage wins is the motto of MWO..

Not skill or teamwork, damage is paramount.

Also single AMS does jack **** against groups of LRM boats raining death on you at once hence the reason for more.

Edited by Samial, 15 February 2021 - 07:50 PM.

[Blood Rose]

ThreeStooges, on 15 February 2021 - 02:20 PM, said:

What killed fp the most? Long tom.

Wait we have Long Toms? Where?

Regarding LRM's, I say the best thing to do is to revert them to how they were during the summer of 2012, AKA the 2nd LURMageddon, and leave them that way for a month or so. Then, revert them back to how they are now, with a slight buff and warn the whiners that the next time they complain too hard the reversion will come back. That will shut them up.

People need to learn to break locks, not camp single points and carry AMS and stay within ECM range if possible.

RE tactical objectives, im all for it. As other people in this thread have said, MWO is pretty far from the table top game. NASCAR nonsense would not fly there, but here maps and game design encourage it. Better, more natural maps would be a massive improvement, instead of these COD inspired ones, as would destructible terrain (Gaijin entertainment can do it) and proper objectives rather then "go here and stand in this space". Stuff to encourage actual scouting, like larger maps, and to make spotting important, escort missions, defence missions, intuitive objectives, such as having to capture one point which then unlocks another that you have to advance to and capture whilst defending the other and so on, missions to recontire warehouses whilst the enemy hunts you, clearing a base so your transports can entre and grab the supplies whilst your team has to hold off the enemy from destroying them... There is a lot that could and should be done.

Edited by Blood Rose, 15 February 2021 - 06:18 PM.

[FupDup]

Blood Rose, on 15 February 2021 - 06:12 PM, said:

Wait we have Long Toms? Where?

We used to have it. It was effectively a tactical nuke that instakilled anything in a several hundred meter radius.

Edited by FupDup, 15 February 2021 - 06:19 PM.

[Blood Rose]

FupDup, on 15 February 2021 - 06:18 PM, said:

We used to have it. It was effectively a tactical nuke that instakilled anything in a several hundred meter radius.

Damn, must have been in the years I couldnt play. Im sad I missed it.

[PocketYoda]

Heavy Money, on 15 February 2021 - 12:42 PM, said:

I'm still not clear on why there's all this talk of nerfing LRMs when they are barely relevant once you leave t5. Sure it stands out when a narc scout and several LRM boats coordinate, but the same number of people coordinating with other loadouts is more dangerous. The LRM focus is just more noticeable.

Not to say that LRMs couldn't be more interesting if overhauled. But this idea that there's a big problem in the game due to them is wrong, so messing with them a bunch isn't going to cause some big improvement.

A lot of the LRM players never leave tier 5 so its a constant LRM fest there, forever.. The meta players and the tier 5 players are vastly different beasts with vastly different play styles for good and bad..

LRMs are very much a problem from tier 5-3 somewhat.. Tier 1-2 probably very much less so, so i'm not sure why tier 1s and 2s would even worry about a LRM nerf if they never use them, sounds to me like they are enjoying stomping tier 4-5 and don't want them removed.

Hence that toxic streamer that was banned, his intentions were to use them that way as a lance.

Edited by Samial, 15 February 2021 - 07:53 PM.

[Heavy Money]

Samial, on 15 February 2021 - 07:47 PM, said:

A lot of the LRM players never leave tier 5 so its a constant LRM fest there, forever.. The meta players and the tier 5 players are vastly different beasts with vastly different play styles for good and bad..

LRMs are very much a problem from tier 5-3 somewhat.. Tier 1-2 probably very much less so, so i'm not sure why tier 1s and 2s would even worry about a LRM nerf if they never use them, sounds to me like they are enjoying stomping tier 4-5 and don't want them removed.

Hence that toxic streamer that was banned, his intentions were to use them that way as a lance.

When i group with some of my friends who are lower tier I see plenty of t5 matches. And I saw plenty of t5 matches when I was t5 myself a couple months ago. I have never seen LRMs be an issue or crushing matches except when the enemy really let them just do it.

ERPPCs are a much bigger problem for the game. People just don't notice as much.

[w0qj]

FYI, few players even bother to equip AMS, even in T5 tier games.
(ECM is sometimes more common than AMS in T5 games).

[PocketYoda]

Heavy Money, on 15 February 2021 - 08:02 PM, said:

When i group with some of my friends who are lower tier I see plenty of t5 matches. And I saw plenty of t5 matches when I was t5 myself a couple months ago. I have never seen LRMs be an issue or crushing matches except when the enemy really let them just do it.

ERPPCs are a much bigger problem for the game. People just don't notice as much.

Yes sure.. Erppcs are non existent in tier 5 pretty much, very few tier 5s can handle ppcs or the heat. also high ping makes ppcs useless.

Edited by Samial, 15 February 2021 - 10:00 PM.

[MrMadguy]

VeritasSuperOmnia, on 14 February 2021 - 06:24 PM, said:

...

1) And without cover game turns into boring LRM/Snipe-fest, when both teams pew-pew their ER-LLs for minutes, doing 1% dmg to each other, but can't get closer to do something more meaningful. Win/loss is determined by team, that loses patience first. So fun gameplay, yeah.
2) It's FPS game and it's core objective - is to kill other 'Mechs. Extra objective are just so called points of interest, where enemy teams can meet and fight for. But things like "you can win match via solving puzzle" - aren't acceptable, sorry. For example Assault is bad because one team is supposed to attack while other team is supposed to defend their base. Problem is - how can they agree, what team will do what? Result - they will either stay at base or attack. And all players simply decide to attack, because they don't want to waste their time. Therefore such mode is meaningless. Skirmish/Domination fix this problem.

Please, don't confuse solo game with online game. In solo game you can play any scenario, you want, for example RP any "lore" scenarios, you want. In online game situation is different. You should do, what other players want to do.

Edited by MrMadguy, 15 February 2021 - 11:12 PM.

[Narkos Fera]

what somewhat killed the game for me a couple years back, was the stupid nerf/buff solution from PGI. They brought out a new mech, only for MC ofc, that thing was powerful, sometimes even OP. Then a patch came, mech got nerfed into the ground and no one wanted to touch it again. That happend way to often. Either a mech was OP or it was dead tonnage. Nothing in between.
Im not sure if thats still a thing, but since the game hasn't been touched for more than a year, i guess it has settled a little.

For now, i have my 2-3 mechs i like to play, but im afraid it will become the same nightmare again if they invest more people into the maintance of the game. Grinding a 13mil credit mech is no fun if its gets nerfed to the ground a couple weeks later.

[Saved By The Bell]

VeritasSuperOmnia, on 15 February 2021 - 08:03 AM, said:

I was #37 in the world season 1 of Solaris across all 7 divisions. I still have the video if you want to see it. I just play the game for fun now and mostly drop in cannon builds for the lolz, but I would be happy to knock the rust off and see if I'm as bad as you think I am.

It was sarcasm, bro. I love tough enemies. My endorphine...

[Blood Rose]

MrMadguy, on 15 February 2021 - 11:08 PM, said:

1) And without cover game turns into boring LRM/Snipe-fest, when both teams pew-pew their ER-LLs for minutes, doing 1% dmg to each other, but can't get closer to do something more meaningful. Win/loss is determined by team, that loses patience first. So fun gameplay, yeah.
2) It's FPS game and it's core objective - is to kill other 'Mechs. Extra objective are just so called points of interest, where enemy teams can meet and fight for. But things like "you can win match via solving puzzle" - aren't acceptable, sorry. For example Assault is bad because one team is supposed to attack while other team is supposed to defend their base. Problem is - how can they agree, what team will do what? Result - they will either stay at base or attack. And all players simply decide to attack, because they don't want to waste their time. Therefore such mode is meaningless. Skirmish/Domination fix this problem.

Please, don't confuse solo game with online game. In solo game you can play any scenario, you want, for example RP any "lore" scenarios, you want. In online game situation is different. You should do, what other players want to do.

Realistic maps. Open terrain, soft cover, hills, buildings. Not everything need be a COD fest. And if they bring back convergence

[Johnny Slam]

1) This game is great.

2) Go play something else if you don't like it.