104 replies to this topic

[Grumpy Old Man]

SirSmokes, on 24 February 2021 - 02:33 AM, said:

Can't fix the till they get the player population up. The matches are only as good as the player pool there is to make matches with. Having mixed solo and group hurts player retention catch 22

I do not agree with that. All they need to do is allocate the 24 people in the match around the groups. Okay, that would essentially kick Weight of Mechs completely out of the window as a consideration, going exclusively by average match score, but it would be a doable solution.

Essentially, my solution would be to rank all the 24 players in the match by whatever metric, maybe average match score. If a group consists of the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th best.player in the match, then that side also gets the 2nd worst, 3rd worst, 4th worst and 5th worst player within the match, as long as those are not in the group on the other side. (Slightly oversimplified)

Pro: Works with the current player population, does not require changes to how the 24 people in the match are picked.
Con: Tonnage is completely out of the window. You could end up with one side only lights and mediums and the rest heavy to Assaults.

However, I guess we can agree that the best players are dangerous to their enemy no matter which Mech they drive and the worst players are a danger to their teammates no matter which Mech they drive. ;-)

[The pessimistic optimist]

Grumpy Old Man, on 24 February 2021 - 02:52 AM, said:

I do not agree with that. All they need to do is allocate the 24 people in the match around the groups. Okay, that would essentially kick Weight of Mechs completely out of the window as a consideration, going exclusively by average match score, but it would be a doable solution.

Essentially, my solution would be to rank all the 24 players in the match by whatever metric, maybe average match score. If a group consists of the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th best.player in the match, then that side also gets the 2nd worst, 3rd worst, 4th worst and 5th worst player within the match, as long as those are not in the group on the other side. (Slightly oversimplified)

Pro: Works with the current player population, does not require changes to how the 24 people in the match are picked.
Con: Tonnage is completely out of the window. You could end up with one side only lights and mediums and the rest heavy to Assaults.

However, I guess we can agree that the best players are dangerous to their enemy no matter which Mech they drive and the worst players are a danger to their teammates no matter which Mech they drive. ;-)

Match maker is not magic it can't make good matches if there are not the enough player to make them

[Gagis]

A matchmaker can work even if the total number of all players playing the entire game is just 24. All it needs to be able to do is evenly distribute the dead weight between 2 teams in order for the chance for each of them to failure cascade to be roughly even.

A stomp happens when one team fails so much harder than the other, it loses multiple players quickly and the rest of the match snowballs from a 12v10 kind of situation. The propability for which team this happens to should be roughly 50/50.

Edited by Gagis, 24 February 2021 - 03:27 AM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Gagis, on 24 February 2021 - 03:25 AM, said:

A matchmaker can work even if the total number of all players playing the entire game is just 24. All it needs to be able to do is evenly distribute the dead weight between 2 teams in order for the chance for each of them to failure cascade to be roughly even.

A stomp happens when one team fails so much harder than the other, it loses multiple players quickly and the rest of the match snowballs from a 12v10 kind of situation. The propability for which team this happens to should be roughly 50/50.

More players would make for better matches and its hard to make good matches when the player count is low. It just a matter of statistics. Don't even get me started on group PSR vs solo PSR

Edited by SirSmokes, 24 February 2021 - 03:30 AM.

[Gagis]

More players is better and more fun and more all the things, but matchmaking algorithms don't magically stop working when there are few players. The algorithms don't care. They work just the same.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Gagis, on 24 February 2021 - 03:33 AM, said:

More players is better and more fun and more all the things, but matchmaking algorithms don't magically stop working when there are few players. The algorithms don't care. They work just the same.

Missing the point there may not be enough player of different skill levels on at one time it might be lopsided. A few years ago when player count was higher sure. but right now it so low it hard to make that work and get people matches in a reasonable amount of time. If they want it to take longer to find and matches sure

Edited by SirSmokes, 24 February 2021 - 03:55 AM.

[Grumpy Old Man]

SirSmokes, on 24 February 2021 - 03:22 AM, said:

Match maker is not magic it can't make good matches if there are not the enough player to make them

I think the difference between our position comes from having different goals. You want to make good matches. And for that, more players are better.

I am trying to get better matches, being less ambitious myself. ;-) And in the absence of being able to do anything to get get enough people for the perfect match maker to provide us with perfect matches, I am happy to work with what we have.

Baby steps. If the matches become better, maybe we will get more players again further down the line.

But doing nothing except waiting for the right number of players to suddenly shows up is unlikely to improve the situation.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Grumpy Old Man, on 24 February 2021 - 04:10 AM, said:

I think the difference between our position comes from having different goals. You want to make good matches. And for that, more players are better.

I am trying to get better matches, being less ambitious myself. ;-) And in the absence of being able to do anything to get get enough people for the perfect match maker to provide us with perfect matches, I am happy to work with what we have.

Baby steps. If the matches become better, maybe we will get more players again further down the line.

But doing nothing except waiting for the right number of players to suddenly shows up is unlikely to improve the situation.

Nothing to do with perfect just more consistent

[Last Of The Brunnen-G]

1. Just make all games 8 vs 8. This immediatly solves a lot of problems. Then you can think of fine tuning the game via MM.
2. Groups and solos should keep dropping together.
3. Remove faction play.
4. Make solaris a real tournament with KO system.
5. Give us a persistant engagement zone with moving front lines, commanders and so on instead of faction play.

[TENTACLE BOSS]

MasterBurte, on 24 February 2021 - 05:57 AM, said:

1. Just make all games 8 vs 8. This immediatly solves a lot of problems. Then you can think of fine tuning the game via MM.
2. Groups and solos should keep dropping together.
3. Remove faction play.
4. Make solaris a real tournament with KO system.
5. Give us a persistant engagement zone with moving front lines, commanders and so on instead of faction play.

What about those of us who enjoy 12 v 12? Seems this should be a separate request in of itself. Many of us just want to play the normal MWO experience, but with friends, with a queue that is both functional and not exclusively stacking us against the sweatiest tryhards.

[Vlad Ward]

MasterBurte, on 24 February 2021 - 05:57 AM, said:

1. Just make all games 8 vs 8. This immediatly solves a lot of problems. Then you can think of fine tuning the game via MM.
2. Groups and solos should keep dropping together.
3. Remove faction play.
4. Make solaris a real tournament with KO system.
5. Give us a persistant engagement zone with moving front lines, commanders and so on instead of faction play.

I'd rather they remove QP than Faction Play. Faction Play is by far the superior game mode.

[ingramli]

The group players want solos into the queue for 2 main purposes
1. reduce queue time. And/or
2. Farming

And solo players like me, avoid playing with good groups, because
1. Coordinated groups are just OP, even a T1 wont stand a chance, team work is OP, full stop. And,
2. Many folks in QP just want causal game, or to grind CB/xp, and test out new builds before bringing it into serious situation, combining the queue ruining their days.....

I dont want to feed myself to the group grinders, but I couldnt change the situation, so I chose not to play the game anymore, good luck to the group lovers finding their friends or foes to drop together.

[Dozer6]

Well, here is my two cents.

Just started dropping as a group with some of my mates and we have actually found that a lot of newer players shoot out friend requests and ask to join and learn from us.
Just yesterday we picked up 4 new guys alone.

I see both sides of the argument but if groups stimulate some players to actually want to get better and stay with the game, how can that be a bad thing in the grand scheme of things?

[Bigbacon]

Vlad Ward, on 04 March 2021 - 07:13 AM, said:

I'd rather they remove QP than Faction Play. Faction Play is by far the superior game mode.

they could try a mini FP game mode in QP but groups will still ruin it. FP that is 100% random teams, might actually be fun. Knowing you'd never have to drop vs meta-premades would be much more fun.

Dozer6, on 05 March 2021 - 06:18 AM, said:

Well, here is my two cents.

Just started dropping as a group with some of my mates and we have actually found that a lot of newer players shoot out friend requests and ask to join and learn from us.
Just yesterday we picked up 4 new guys alone.

I see both sides of the argument but if groups stimulate some players to actually want to get better and stay with the game, how can that be a bad thing in the grand scheme of things?

I'm sure this doesn't happen often. groups of 3 or more usually just ruin the game for one side or the other. See it all the time.


AND

8v8 is not the answer. it only makes the games worse. It has stay 12v12 or it dies a stupid death. If they ever drop it to 8v8 I won't touch the game again OR I'll screw ball play every round knowing it hurts my team just that much more vs a 12v12


Maybe if groups had weight and class limits, that would help a bit but not much.

Edited by Bigbacon, 05 March 2021 - 10:00 AM.

[Vlad Ward]

Bigbacon, on 05 March 2021 - 09:57 AM, said:

they could try a mini FP game mode in QP but groups will still ruin it. FP that is 100% random teams, might actually be fun. Knowing you'd never have to drop vs meta-premades would be much more fun.

Big brain idea: If they removed QP, there would be enough players in FP for actual PSR-based MM so Championship Series teams only fight other Championship Series teams.

[PocketYoda]

ingramli, on 05 March 2021 - 05:19 AM, said:

The group players want solos into the queue for 2 main purposes
1. reduce queue time. And/or
2. Farming

And solo players like me, avoid playing with good groups, because
1. Coordinated groups are just OP, even a T1 wont stand a chance, team work is OP, full stop. And,
2. Many folks in QP just want causal game, or to grind CB/xp, and test out new builds before bringing it into serious situation, combining the queue ruining their days.....

I dont want to feed myself to the group grinders, but I couldnt change the situation, so I chose not to play the game anymore, good luck to the group lovers finding their friends or foes to drop together.

My personal reasons for not liking to be in group are many..
The leader gets to choose everything..
You must sit around and wait till everyone has finished faffing around before you can drop..
You cannot tinker with mechs or the store in fear you are holding everyone up..
The matchmaker seems to add groups of players into far harder levels of tiers than some of us can handle..

Case in point last night, i logged in and played a couple of matches and won.. Joined my friends group and had stomps all night bar one win.. Really bad stomps as well like massacres.

Whats the point of groups.. Plus you cannot chat to them anyway while searching for games and in the match (people get pissed if you shoot the breeze and its rude to in a match)..

Vlad Ward, on 05 March 2021 - 10:35 AM, said:

Big brain idea: If they removed QP, there would be enough players in FP for actual PSR-based MM so Championship Series teams only fight other Championship Series teams.

Nobody bar a few meta units would play after a week or two.. Fun fact only a small minority likes FP and its annoying features that come with it..
The stomps are worse there..
The 4 times the wait even with a population.
Not everyone likes meta gameplay
Not everyone wants to run certain mechs 24/7
The toxicity it breeds through some customers.

You'd kill the player base in about a month.

Edited by Samial, 05 March 2021 - 08:18 PM.

[ingramli]

Samial, on 05 March 2021 - 08:09 PM, said:

Not everyone likes meta gameplay

This one. I just dont want every game to be competitive gameplay. I want to play competitively ONLY when I want to. Being with a group means you are committed, if you are not doing your best, you are holding others back. I just dont like being obliged to perform, it is stressful.

Edited by ingramli, 06 March 2021 - 02:24 AM.

[Dozer6]

Bigbacon, on 05 March 2021 - 09:57 AM, said:

they could try a mini FP game mode in QP but groups will still ruin it. FP that is 100% random teams, might actually be fun. Knowing you'd never have to drop vs meta-premades would be much more fun.




I'm sure this doesn't happen often. groups of 3 or more usually just ruin the game for one side or the other. See it all the time.


AND

8v8 is not the answer. it only makes the games worse. It has stay 12v12 or it dies a stupid death. If they ever drop it to 8v8 I won't touch the game again OR I'll screw ball play every round knowing it hurts my team just that much more vs a 12v12


Maybe if groups had weight and class limits, that would help a bit but not much.

OMG!!!!
The other team actually had a group of average players in a lance that actually won conquest because they communicated and capped while we played C.O.D. yolo deathmatch.

Booo fng hooo...

[MechWarrior414712]

I love & hate groups
I love them when I play in them since then I don't have to worry about losing since I know I have 3 others that are not in dogturd mechs and have higher intelligence than your average quickplay amoeba has.
I hate them when I know I don't have 3 others that are not in dogturd mechs and have higher intelligence than your average quickplay amoeba has.

Groups are fine but the main problem is the playerbase itself. Very stupid and bad players result in bad games. People need to learn to play or at least try.

Edited by I O O percent KongLord, 06 March 2021 - 07:49 AM.

[JP Josh]

i miss the no restriction on groups and what mechs they could bring then again it was 7 wangs led by a awesome that was named dr as clown.

and there were only 13 mechs back then you could choose from.