132 replies to this topic

[Nomad5926]

This might be the unpopular opinion, but while these mechs are good they aren't game breaking. Maybe I don't notice, but I've never lost a game (in QP) because the enemy team had VGLs. I'm mid-pilot rank 2, so maybe its different at T1? But they aren't really a problem. Hell the F****** Nascar **** is more of a problem.

Edited by Nomad5926, 19 February 2021 - 11:29 PM.

[Heavy Money]

Nomad5926, on 19 February 2021 - 11:22 PM, said:

This might be the unpopular opinion, but while these mechs are good they aren't game breaking. Maybe I don't notice, but I've never lost a game (in QP) because the enemy team had VGLs. I'm mid-pilot rank 2, so maybe its different at T1? But they aren't really a problem. Hell the ******* Nascar **** is more of a problem.

Sure, and I haven't claimed that they are game breaking. But there's lots of things that drag the game down in small ways that aren't game breaking. If we're not going to fix something unless its super broken, then we'll never fix anything.

[ColourfulConfetti]

There are always going to be mechs that are more viable than the rest, I think it's more of a meta thing. There was a time when the Highlander was considered the top mech in the game. Trust me, won't last forever.

[Vellron2005]

All I'm gonna say about the Vapor Eagle is...

Assasin.

Nuff' said.

[The pessimistic optimist]

ColourfulConfetti, on 21 February 2021 - 04:42 AM, said:

There are always going to be mechs that are more viable than the rest, I think it's more of a meta thing. There was a time when the Highlander was considered the top mech in the game. Trust me, won't last forever.

Yea but they could bring up some of other mechs to make them little more usable

[VonBruinwald]

In case you can't figure it:
Cane = Vapour
Wilson = Nerfs
House = Objectors

[Willard Phule]

Well, it's Clan, so it's obviously OP. It's time to beat it senseless with the nerf hammer.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Willard Phule, on 21 February 2021 - 07:29 AM, said:

Well, it's Clan, so it's obviously OP. It's time to beat it senseless with the nerf hammer.

I am not really for nerfing it how about an indirect nerf. Most of the problems with VE is pop sniping with ATMs cer PPCs ect. Why not make it harder to land with out doing some leg damage. Make it so if you are jumping to full high and just dropping like a rock with no fuel in the JJs to soften the land you will take more leg damage nothing crazy just a bit more leg damage. It will force people to be more careful with the popping up and just dropping down like a rock. Make it so you need this much fuel how much can be debated on the come down to soften that landing or you will be hurting yourself. It will make it little harder to just jump all over the place willnilly. Make it so the longer fall the hard that hit you take. Just an idea

Edited by SirSmokes, 21 February 2021 - 12:04 PM.

[RickySpanish]

Heavy Money, on 19 February 2021 - 10:28 PM, said:

And a medium running 70ton+ loadouts isn't?

Your solution's crap though, see what's going to happen is Vapor Eagle gets 300 minimum engine and becomes a joke. Nobody runs it afterward because it'll be a gigantic Medium 'Mech with all the problems of an Omni without a single advantage. Everyone switches to something else... Maybe RAC2 Champion or UAC-10 Bushie. And once again, people start getting nuked by optimised loadouts. Heavy Money suggests that perhaps, the Champion needs a minimum engine cap - it does look like a jet fighter afterall. And on we go around and around till everyone's running about in Spiders with 3 medium pulse lasers.

But wait.

You can put a Heavy PPC on a Spider!

Dun! Dun! Dunnnnnnnn!

[Y E O N N E]

Heavy Money, on 19 February 2021 - 10:28 PM, said:

And a medium running 70ton+ loadouts isn't?

It's a Clan 'Mech, it's what they do. It's not running a 70 ton Clan loadout, it's running a 70 ton IS loadout. Heaven forbid Clans have a Medium that isn't pigeon-holed into a single role. Last time they had one, everybody QQ'd so hard that PGI forced it to handle like a 90 tonner.

[Heavy Money]

RickySpanish, on 21 February 2021 - 09:58 AM, said:

Your solution's crap though, see what's going to happen is Vapor Eagle gets 300 minimum engine and becomes a joke. Nobody runs it afterward because it'll be a gigantic Medium 'Mech with all the problems of an Omni without a single advantage. Everyone switches to something else... Maybe RAC2 Champion or UAC-10 Bushie. And once again, people start getting nuked by optimised loadouts. Heavy Money suggests that perhaps, the Champion needs a minimum engine cap - it does look like a jet fighter afterall. And on we go around and around till everyone's running about in Spiders with 3 medium pulse lasers.

But wait.

You can put a Heavy PPC on a Spider!

Dun! Dun! Dunnnnnnnn!

You're assuming some slippery slope of always getting rid of the best option. You can lock the vapor eagle at an XL300 and it still does 2xUAC10 better than the bushwhacker, and with jump jets. It'll still have more tonnage to work with than many heavy omnimechs, let alone mediums, so the comparison is silly.

Depending on armor values, it has 28tons open. That's still have more room to work with than most Hunchback II's. In other words, it'll still run more firepower than any other medium, and as much as some 60 tonners. It just won't be able to run as much firepower as some 75tonners! Oh no! How will it EVER be useful?

UAC10 bushies and Rac2 Champions aren't massively outperforming their equivalents, are not overwhelmingly dominant meta mechs, and don't get to run weapon loadouts an entire weight class bigger than they are. They aren't a problem, why would they be changed? And if the bushie is good now, why won't the vapor eagle be good running that loadout? Oh wait, people already run that and it IS good. Its just not as popular as the even nastier loadouts the Veagle can run.

[Heavy Money]

Miss Greene, on 21 February 2021 - 10:13 AM, said:

It's a Clan 'Mech, it's what they do. It's not running a 70 ton Clan loadout, it's running a 70 ton IS loadout. Heaven forbid Clans have a Medium that isn't pigeon-holed into a single role. Last time they had one, everybody QQ'd so hard that PGI forced it to handle like a 90 tonner.

Name a single other clan mech that runs a loadout a size class larger than it. Show me all the clan heavies running MadCat II or Blood Asp loadouts.

Let me glance at the Grimmechs database for the vapor eagle:

- 3xERPPC and jump jets. That's the Summoner's loadout. A Clan heavy 70tonner. Sunspider doesn't even get the JJs.
- 3xATM12's +JJs. That's as much as most Clan Heavies can run.
- 2xLPL+5ERML, same as many clan heavies.
- 2xERPPC+Gauss. Same as a Sunspider or Timberwolf. Same as some IS assaults.
- LB20+4SRM6a. Same as an Orion IIC.
- It can comfortably run 2xUAC10+ERPPC. Sunspider Vanguard loadout. With Jumpjets.

Boy, that's sure is a lot of Clan Heavy 70 ton loadouts for a mech that isn't running Clan Heavy 70 ton loadouts!

Heaven forbid we expect that this one mech shouldn't get to do things that nobody else gets to. That's so unfair!

Edited by Heavy Money, 21 February 2021 - 11:49 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Heavy Money, on 21 February 2021 - 11:47 AM, said:

Name a single other clan mech that runs a loadout a size class larger than it. Show me all the clan heavies running MadCat II or Blood Asp loadouts.

Did you even read what I wrote? I said Clan 'Mechs always take a loadout comparable to one IS class above, not comparable to one class above within the Clan tech tree.

But since you asked:

- HBK-IIC; 2xUAC/20, 2xERLL+6xERML, 2x ERPPC+6xERSL; comparable to RFL-IIC, Ebon Jag, Summoner
- NTG; 1xUAC/10+3UAC/5, 2xGauss+2xERPPC - comparable to Blood Asp, Kodiak
- RFL-IIC; 2xUAC/10+2xUAC/5 - comparable to Blood Asp, Mad Cat Mk. II

Now go back and rethink your argument, because it's thoroughly broken.

[FupDup]

Miss Greene, on 21 February 2021 - 12:10 PM, said:

Did you even read what I wrote? I said Clan 'Mechs always take a loadout comparable to one IS class above, not comparable to one class above within the Clan tech tree.

But since you asked:

- HBK-IIC; 2xUAC/20, 2xERLL+6xERML, 2x ERPPC+6xERSL; comparable to RFL-IIC, Ebon Jag, Summoner
- NTG; 1xUAC/10+3UAC/5, 2xGauss+2xERPPC - comparable to Blood Asp, Kodiak
- RFL-IIC; 2xUAC/10+2xUAC/5 - comparable to Blood Asp, Mad Cat Mk. II

Now go back and rethink your argument, because it's thoroughly broken.

To be fair, those mechs have much greater weaknesses than the Veagle. All three of them have bad hitboxes and the Night Gyr has really bad agility. The Rifleman IIC is incredibly slow (variant dependent).

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 21 February 2021 - 12:16 PM, said:

To be fair, those mechs have much greater weaknesses than the Veagle. All three of them have bad hitboxes and the Night Gyr has really bad agility. The Rifleman IIC is incredibly slow (variant dependent).

The VEagle has low hardpoints and spongy legs. The RFL-IIC that is meta is not slow. The NTG also only received its horrid agility AFTER the complaining around here was done.

Edited by Miss Greene, 21 February 2021 - 12:18 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Heavy Money, on 18 February 2021 - 02:28 PM, said:

I find the triple ERPPCs to be really annoying (but note that annoying doesn't necessarily mean dangerous), but that's because I think all poptarting is silly. Is Poptart even supposed to be a thing? Does that really exist in battletech lore or tabletop?

This isn't table top so that doesn't matter.

I find Piranhas that get behind me in an assault and crit half my weapons in a fraction of a second to be very annoying, but that doesn't mean I think they should be nerfed.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Gas Guzzler, on 21 February 2021 - 12:20 PM, said:

This isn't table top so that doesn't matter.

I find Piranhas that get behind me in an assault and crit half my weapons in a fraction of a second to be very annoying, but that doesn't mean I think they should be nerfed.

LMAO a sneaky piranha can core you out before you know they are there

[Gas Guzzler]

SirSmokes, on 21 February 2021 - 12:22 PM, said:

LMAO a sneaky piranha can core you out before you know they are there

Yeah it happens but at the end of the day its a team fail for letting the Piranha get behind everyone.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Gas Guzzler, on 21 February 2021 - 12:26 PM, said:

Yeah it happens but at the end of the day its a team fail for letting the Piranha get behind everyone.

It just kind funny when you are fresh minding your own business pay attention to whats in front of you and oh I am dead what happen oh piranha

Edited by SirSmokes, 21 February 2021 - 12:45 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Is it worth noting that nerfing the Vapor Eagle just means people will do the same thing in the Summoner?