615 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Johny Rocket, on 19 February 2021 - 04:52 PM, said:

I mean unless you are actually going to give Rac5s 5 points per shell but otherwise stop messing up the game trying to balance it.

That would give the RAC/5 somewhere around 36 DPS.

Big lolno.

[Linksrevenge]

I would like to see IS and Clan large pulse lasers return back to their original damage, cause right now people hardly use either one when playing especially IS large pulse lasers for how people agree that the weight is too much for just 1 damage increase same with clan large pulse, if the damage returns people would use them more but as of right now hardly any one uses them for the weight is too much for one damage increase.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Reduce heat on snub nose PPC
Reduce heat on LAMS
More ammo per ton for none MG ballistic weapons
more spread on indirect fire on all LRMs but improved spread on LOS,improvements to artemis make that extra ton more worth it
Up the damage on IS large pulse some
take ghost heat of PPC gauss combo I think we are past the point were that combo is broken now

[GoatHILL]

IS med & ERmed lasers

Way too hot with a way too long cooldown.

[B1ack Dragon]

I would like the minimum ranges to be removed and replaced with half damage for the rockets, PPC and HPPC.

[PASHA]

Stimraug, on 19 February 2021 - 12:19 PM, said:

Give gauss rifles their role of extreme range superiority back. Give them the old 3x optimal max range, or even 4x. For added skill ceiling, possibly tie charge time to the max range with 2-3s of charge doubling the optimal range, but also increasing cooldown if charged fully / more.

This. Current Gauss is more a liability than an asset.

[Alilua]

Flamers, they need actual damage.

Snub nose ppc needs something to give it more advantage vs medium pulse lasers considering how much er ppcs can be used. Maybe higher dps, less current heat?

Two rac 5 vs three rac 2, there should be some reason to take rac 5. Play with jam chances, slight damage tweaks etc.
Small pulse need love for both IS and clan

Heavy lasers don't stick out enough vs clan er lasers. Maybe little less burntime or heat or tweaks to their ghost heat crossover families.

Tighter spreads on smaller lbx to give lbx 2 and 5 more of a role.

More ammo per ton on narcs.

Clan er mediums feel a tad over nerfed.

Some kind of tweak for heavy machineguns to justify current drawbacks vs regular machine guns.

Give assault jump jets more use for their tonnage.

Let active probe cancel ecm at all close ranges.

Maybe powering down instantly breaking non los lrm locks?

Much more ams resistance for small atm launchers so people have more usage of them maybe introduce ams resistance for missles launched from smaller mechs as a quirk?

And do something with light gauss I almost forgot it existed because it's kind of useless for it's tonnage. Try removing all of it's charge time or something.

Edited by Alilua, 19 February 2021 - 06:24 PM.

[Sjorpha]

1. I don't think the current balance is that bad, so be careful and don't make too big changes. Start with carefully buffing clearly underperforming weapons like IS small lasers and so on.

2. Don't treat all feedback equally, take a moment to consider how much experience someone has including comp play and how much effort is put into the feedback. There are a lot of people who simply haven't played the game enough yet to give good feedback on balance.

[Z Cassel]

All the LRM Boaters are going to roast me for this but there needs to be a total tube cap/ghost heat for LRMs. Current meta has shifted to ridiculous loadouts that don't really fit with any semblance of lore or overall acknowledgement that matches aren't Batchalls with everyone having a perfect infinite supply chain. A 100 ton mech with 18 tons of ammunition and 8 LRM launchers isn't exactly practical other than in a meta understanding that this is a game, and that removes all of the fun. The fun is further degraded by their selfish usage of tonnage and the way psr is currently tied to average match score, which is inflated by these LRM Boats. If you want your PSR to go up, you then have to either mimic the situation, or only play meta breaker builds solely. More than anything this makes the game unfriendly to play, because what's the point if you are only going to lose unless you play an LRM boat or a fast stealth mech? I love stealth mechs but Battletech is more than those two roles.

[Elizander]

Small Pulse lasers fix.

IS PPCs. Get rid of the minimum range of 0 damage it makes no sense whatsoever. Make it do a fixed amount of damage under 90m be it 5, 6 or 8 damage and get it done with. The charged particles don't 'arm' themselves after 90m, they are deadly the moment they leave the barrel. I'm fine with LPPC doing 2-3 damage under 90m, PPC doing 5-8 and HPPC doing 7-9 damage in minimum range.

Turn RAC/5 to burst weapons while RAC/2 are DPS weapons. I'm fine with RAC/5 having lower DPS, just make it hurt while the barrels are spinning.

Shave off 0.07 duration off Clan MPLs or something.

Release a consumable that can help counter LRMs, either an AMS UAV or one that gives ECM/Stealth armor effect for like 3-5 seconds and removes Narc so that LRM haters burn their c-bills on it.

[PraetorGix]

Clan Small pulse lasers are a sad joke.
RAC5 is usable only in singles, would be nice to at least fire two of them together.
This is just solidarity since I don't even use them, but Gauss rifles should not explode.
Light Gauss rifles are a waste of tonnage, same with Clan regular autocannons. (I am aware of the questionable explanation Paul gave about this, but since they are already in-game and since we are hungry for any content, why not tweak some part of them to make them somewhat unique and give us a pseudo new weapon system?)

Also, and most importantly, Clan Small pulse lasers are a sad joke.

Edited by PraetorGix, 19 February 2021 - 07:19 PM.

[Z Cassel]

Alternative fix to indirect fire boating: Missiles don't track unless the tag is maintained the entire time. The missiles have a wider, saturation artillery effect. That way LRM boats with 6 plus launchers can choose an area to blanket but they're forced to either have los of the area or just accept that a huge chunk of their missiles are going to hit nothing at all.

[Galenthor Kerensky]

I feel it is long past due where the IS mechs get what the clans have for missile close range, and the clans get what they have in tabletop, no dmg down trickle... full dmg at point blank range...

for gauss, I think that the charge up should happen after firing, not before... would also bring more use to the idea of doing snap shots with em.

ballistics... with the clans having the option to use the old fashioned cannons, why not put those back to one solid slug instead of the pellet system? the other a/c's they have already do the multi fragment shooting...

ppc's... clan ppc's should get the full tt damage capability, not what they have now... there have been some shots that I have made that should have at least did some dmg, but for some reason the dmg didn't register ( and the target wasn't bunny hopping ) the hits in question were generally on the torsos...

ecm is too strong, it needs to get nerfed abit, especially on stealth armor mechs... the tt idea was to add a modifier, not pull a john cena you can't see me... and the only time I have been able to get locks on a stealth mech was after it got hit with a ppc, nothing else worked on it

[NumberFive]

To fix streaks:

Let them fire without a target lock, target lock optional.
They'll become more useful.
They already have weight, rate of fire and ghost heat penalties compared to SRM, so they're not going to be OP.
The game mechanic already exists - ATMs & LRMs can do it already.

Edited by NumberFive, 19 February 2021 - 07:30 PM.

[Sereglach]

I have one simple top priority I'd like to see for MWO. Get the MW5 Flamer into MWO. No wonky free-fire mechanics, no absurd gimmicks, and no broken systems. It's simple and straightforward with fixed flat values. Even if you have to tune the specific numbers for MWO's balance's sake, then do it. It's endlessly frustrating that the exact kind of Flamer I've advocated for years to get in MWO seems to be in MW5.

Outside of that I think Pulse Lasers should be changed into an actually different feeling laser system (30% current damage and heat with 25% the current recharge rate, give or take). That might be outside the scope of "wave 1" however, but it really shouldn't be.

Small lasers in general have felt under-tuned for a long time. They don't need a lot, just a bit of a nudge up. I'm sure there's plenty of specific numbers in this thread to work off of.

Since we don't have crit-splitting (used in a surprising number of TT builds, if you go digging), consider dropping the crit size of the IS LBX/20 to at least match the standard AC/20. It doesn't let you put a heat sink in with the LBX/20 but you can at least consider putting them into the arms of certain mechs at that point.

While not necessarily weapons, Command Consoles and Jump Jets also desperately need to be reviewed. Pop-tarts are LONG DEAD (screen shake and crosshair displacement are more than adequate for that), so for the love of God, give Jump Jets back their usefulness. Command consoles should be more than just a knock-off targeting computer in the head, and should be of significant value for a team. While Command Consoles probably need a more lengthy discussion, Jump Jets should be quick and easy to address.

Outside of that, until Flamers are addressed I just don't care enough to really go digging too deep into other weapon systems; and besides, it seems others in this thread have those weapon systems adequately covered.

Edited by Sereglach, 19 February 2021 - 08:03 PM.

[YiffyInAJiffy]

Looks like there’s a lot of people here with a lot more experience than me, go with their suggestions! I’ve only just broke the 650 hour mark and looks like there’s people here who have been here for a *long* time and understand the meta a lot better. But if you’re looking for an average player with average experiences and ….. well I hope average skill tell you how they feel about their experience with the game.

it’d be cool if

-Lrm ammunition per ton was decreased some.

- if the arc for lrm’s didn’t constantly carry them over what *should* be cover, even cover that has an extra 25% height on you. Grim plexus buildings make me sad even as a medium mech that should be safe behind the tall building.

-light ppcs had some sort of adjustment to be worthwhile, even if it was just not having a minimum range.

-Laser ams had its heat regeneration reduced slightly, or perhaps ams had its effective (but not max) range upped

-streaks could fire without a required missle lock

-Dumbfiring LRM/atms wasn't so...weird?

-I think this falls under weapons though its more of a reward from such, it’d be nice if eating missiles gave a small cbill reward, maybe 5000cb per 250? Right now it just inflates your match score, which makes me feel super cool and popular, but makes running mechs like my kitfox just earn less despite helping out the team. (please give me a heavy mech that does the 3 ams ecm like the kitfox, I’m begging you)

- I saw someone saying that lrms should have their minimum range taken away. Please don’t do that. Please.

-this is such an edge thing, but it’d be really nice to know how much damage ammunition/heavy gauss explosions etc do to you when they blow up!



Is it ok to mention consumables? I see others mentioning masc, its part of the loadout so?

-UAV’s had a slightly bigger hitbox/view model. If I have the right weapon type, range, torso pitch, have come to a full stop, and the enemy has been super aggressive with their UAV I should be able to punish one without feeling like I’m aiming more for the range indicator to go down than the UAV itself.

-arties only hit front armor, or had an increased time for the very first countdown to stop them from being spammed on solo targets 1000+ m away at the very start of a match (like on tourmaline, getting solo arty striked in the first 6 seconds as an assault…doesn’t feel like it’s a result of a misplay on my part??? . I get that they’re a tool for punishing clumps, denying area…. And just getting free damage to soften the enemy up, but there’s no reason it should eat into back armor too, especially when the hit detection is so wonky that my mech with 6-8 armor in the back and 0 damage taken can shove its back against a wall and still die to both side torsos getting popped by an arty that wasn’t even directed my way.

edit- changed mask to masc, autocorrect!

Edited by YiffyInAJiffy, 19 February 2021 - 09:09 PM.

[BigBadVlad]

How about this for indirect fire lrms? Some missiles are flat out going to miss, unless target is narced or being constantly Tagged by a friendly who has to be standing still? Also if a narced target is being annihilated by LRMS or spotted anyway give half the damage and Match Score from the LRMs to the spotter/Narcer. A good Narcer/Spotter shows more skill than an indirect fire lrm player.

Edited by BigBadVlad, 19 February 2021 - 09:30 PM.

[Ostsr]

Kurt the Merc, on 19 February 2021 - 09:15 AM, said:

I agree, perhaps instead of a damaging explosion. An electronic one along the lines of an emp, disabling systems ecm, mask, ect...

You never blow up capacitors in real life. There is no emp or stuff. Just a big boom.

[Mad Mech]

It's hard to discuss a weapons pass without first asking two fundamental questions:

1) What gameplay objective are we trying to achieve?
2) How does a change to any part of the game achieve that objective?

As the game stands now (just talking about skirmish mode here), and regardless of starting positions or game modes, both sides more or less gravitate to the center the map until they reach a roughly 300 to 600 meter range, then in an effort to out-flank the other team, engage in a murderball nascar death spiral, like two black holes circling until one devours the other, with of course, the occasional peripheral mech firing into the maelstrom.

Everyone knows this. But is this what we want.

Here is where fundamental question #1 comes into play. If you were designing MWO from the ground up, and your gameplay objective was to have players more or less gravitate to the center of every map at 600 meters, then rotate in a Murderball Death Spiral (also the name of my 80's rock cover band) with the occasional peripheral mech firing into the maelstrom, then you would code most weapons with a range of 300-600 meters. Then create maps that have 1 or 2 objects in the middle to spiral around. Objective reached.

I'm not sure if that objective is intended, but it seems to be where we find ourselves. To be blunt, I find it dull because every mech and weapon feels more or less the same, because well, they are. Sure, there are some differences in weapons and mechs, but the overall differences aren't enough to break away from everyone choosing the meta weapon for that that static range and the rotational spiral of ugh. I keep playing because this is really the only multiplayer robot stompy game out there. But on the other hand, ugh.

Now if I'm PGI, I'm asking myself, what changes changes can I make that increases the number of active players (who are willing to spend some money now and then) with the minimal amount of coding. That depends. How far are players willing to go, and how much of a chance is PGI willing to take.

So here we go:

Imaginary Patch Notes:

Greetings MechWarriors!
The Community spoke and we listened! At least to that one guy in the forums, because this is imaginary so we can do that. Anyway, without further ado, we would like to share with you a draft of the MechWarrior Online Roadmap!


GAMEPLAY OVERVIEW

• Each mech variant now has a specific intended role: Attack, Defense, and Support. MechWarriors now have the opportunity to bring role-defined mechs to the battlefield and use their capabilities to enhance their allies strengths while exploiting the enemy's weakness to achieve victory.
  
• Weapons ranges and capabilities have been adjusted to increase engagement ranges and make each weapon's utilization more defined.
  
• UI updates.

LASERS

• Lasers now have a falloff both before and after its optional range (i.e. lasers now have a focal point). For example, lasers with an optional range of 2,000m will do maximum damage at 2,000m, but reduced damage to targets closer or further away. This means pilots who wish to engage targets at multiple ranges will need to balance their laser weapons more carefully before entering the battlefield.
  
• Laser optimal ranges increased.
  
• Adjusted heat penalty for firing multiple lasers at once. (If you're going to fire like the Deathstar, you're going to explode like one).

BALLISTICS

• Ballistic weapons will only be reloaded from ammunition contained within the same body part.
  
• Ballistic maximum ranges increased.
  
• Ballistic falloff ranges begin at 0m.
  
• Gauss rifle range greatly increased. Damage decreased. The weapon is designed for extreme long-range and pin-point accuracy, but at a price.
  
• Gauss ammo-per-ton increased.
  
• Gauss rifle explodes only if the weapon was charged at the time it was destroyed. Explosion damage has been increased.
  
• RAC weapon heat will only begin to acrue after the weapon has spooled up and fired.

MISSILES

• Missile weapons will only be reloaded from ammunition contained within the same body part.
  
• Missle target lock now requires direct line-of-sight in one of three ways: 1) direct line of sight by the mech firing the missiles, 2) direct line of sight by another mech whereas both the observing mech and firing mech have targeting computers installed, 3) direct line of sight by an Advanced UAV whereas the firing mech also has a targeting computer installed.
  
• Damage increased.
  
• Missile velocity decreased at launch, and increases during flight up to a maximum velocity.
  
• LRM minimum safe distance before arming increased.
  
• All missiles now have a radius splash damage, that upon impact, can damage nearby mechs. This means mechs that that fire missles at point-blank range (e.g. SRM) may also damage themselves.

AMS

• Increased range.
  
• Increased anti-missile damage.

MECH DESTRUCTION

• Destroying a mech's core will cause its nuclear core to go critical and explode, creating a shockwave damage radius around the mech that may damage nearby mechs. Mechs disabled by the destruction of both legs or by headshot will not explode.

MECH VARIANTS

• "Attack" variant mechs have reduced armor, reduced heat capacity, but increased weapon mounts.
  
• "Defense variant mechs have greatly increased armor, increased heat capacty, but reduced weapon mounts.
  
• "Support" variant mechs haves reduced armor, reduced heat capacity, reduced weapon mounts, but are the only mechs with hardpoints to mount support hardware: UAV launchers, ECM, Strategic Strike Satlinks, etc. (We can get creative here an invent some new components).
  
• Elite mech variants have been added to the game! Elite mechs are also availble in Attack, Defense, and Support roles, but have a favorable quirk (and/or other options to be discussed). Elite mechs are avaible to active MWO monthly subscribers. (If this were made fun and interesting enough, and was not pay-to-win, then I'd actually pay a small monthly fee for this. Just saying).

IN-GAME UI

• Pilots will no longer be able to see HUD targeting data from other mechs without a targeting computer. Pilots will still see spotted mechs on their radar screens but will be unable to target them without line of sight.
  
• Override Engaged warning has been moved to the mech's heat bar.

MECHLAB UI:

• Clicking "Apply Changes" in the mech lab will no longer exit the user to the mech selection screen. Instead, the UI screen will stay in the same section (Loadout, Skills, Weapon Groups, etc.) where the change were applied. (I had throw this in here; it drives me nuts).

So there it is. Obviously this is not a comprehensive detailed list with specific weapon damage values etc., but it's not meant to be. My objective here is to ask what our gameplay objective is. As players. As PGI. For me, the gameplay objectives being:



- Make mech varients interesting and unique
- Make weapons utilization more defined
- Promote player roles and teamwork
- Increase tactical depth
- Use more of the battlefield
- Add interesting revenue options
- Have fun!

I have some more ideas on game modes, but we'll see how this goes first.

Thanks for reading,
A MechWarrior Online Player

Edited by Mad Mech, 20 February 2021 - 12:28 AM.

[denAirwalkerrr]

Mad Mech, on 20 February 2021 - 12:02 AM, said:

BALLISTICS

• Ballistic weapons will only be reloaded from ammunition contained within the same body part.

1t ammo maximum for IS LBX20/HGauss sounds like a wonderful idea