615 replies to this topic

[Paradoxbound]

Brauer, on 19 February 2021 - 03:14 PM, said:

Ah yes, describing a game mechanic as an exploit and a cheat, very reasonable.

When I am sitting in the tunnel at Crimson Strait in my Kit-Fox firing AMS through hundreds of tonnes of solid rock. That isn't a game mechanic that is broken code and I am exploiting it. If PGI claim otherwise then I would like an explanation of why.

[Hawk819]

Paradoxbound, on 22 February 2021 - 04:43 PM, said:

When I am sitting in the tunnel at Crimson Strait in my Kit-Fox firing AMS through hundreds of tonnes of solid rock. That isn't a game mechanic that is broken code and I am exploiting it. If PGI claim otherwise then I would like an explanation of why.

totally agree. I mean, sitting in the middle of the tunnel and seeing my AMS go off as the missiles are supposedly being fire off over the top of me. And also, when I'm the missile boater, seeing my missiles being cut to shreds as I watch the AMS shoot through the hillside.


That's not a mechanic, that's code problem and needs fixing. Period.

[dario03]

Z Cassel, on 22 February 2021 - 02:20 PM, said:

Lights aren't that significant of an issue if you aren't monoboating lock on only or super high damage weapons. BT has always shown that builds that specialize too much are supposed to coordinate with others or are genuinely considered vulnerable. People trying to say stealth, ecm, and lights are too strong are relying entirely on meta damage setups that require less manual targeting or less target tracking. That's not exactly a community-wide problem, complaint, or issue regardless of what weight class you usually play. If you want to talk builds that are universally changing the gameplay away from a team game though, look at the lrm-only boats.

Yeah I don't get why some are calling for lights to be nerfed. Lights are the lowest scoring and last I heard lowest used class in the game. Any call for nerfing them either directly or indirectly by streak buffs or balance shifts to bigger is better doesn't really make sense.
Discussing streaks can make sense in this thread since they are a weapon and this is a weapon balance thread. But calling for just buffs to them doesn't make sense. They are for some reason balanced around being anti-light even though like I said lights are the lowest performing class. So anything that buffs streaks but doesn't nerf them against lights in some way just drives more people away from lights (or the game entirely) and thus lowers the diversity of mechs in the game.

A simple change for now would be lowering their alpha a lot but keeping dps around the same and some other slight buff like missile health. This would at least allow some more retreat time for a light when a clan streak boat pops up and starts shooting it with prelocked streaks from 400m out. (lowering range on cssrm is also an option)

The best option would be changing streaks so they had something like spread and/or amount of missiles fired based on target size or another option is to just change their tracking strength so lights could dodge some with high speed maneuvers. With those kind of changes you could then buff streaks in some other ways so that they are better vs the bigger targets that they are currently weak against. This decreases the frustration of fighting streaks in a light, and decreases the frustration of fighting bigger mechs in a streak boat so win win.

Edited by dario03, 22 February 2021 - 05:27 PM.

[SQ1R1LL]

Double the heat on all Missile systems... ALL of them

Give all the mechs the ability to have at least one AMS system hard point (whether or not people use it is up to them)

More Ghost heat for more than 2 or 3 weapons of any type at once or within a certain amount of time
or get rid of the pinpoint laser/Gauss/ac, srm vomit alpha... or make the heat so high that high output alpha will shut down and possibly kill your mech. Heat management has always been a major factor in Battletech

Less Heat on PPC systems or more Damage for the heat they produce. Ranges are fine

ECM option on all the mechs would be a nice thing to. some counter to the Missile rain should be implemented
since missiles are cheap and easy to get and ammo isn't scarce and expensive like it should be.

perhaps having to pay to re-ammo and re-armour you mech will bring back a more strategic style of play.



and I agree with the one's that say kill all the machine guns (all types) ability to do any real damage to a location until the armour is destroyed..

[wandering Baker]

Help gauss rifles to be useful enough in one or another way. The most drowback of it is a bomb in axilla.

[MrTBSC]

Gausscharge limit needs to go
the charge itself can stay but let me fire 3 or 4 gaussrifles at once, if need be for a heat penalty or even Jamchance ...

Edited by MrTBSC, 23 February 2021 - 12:07 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

MrTBSC, on 22 February 2021 - 10:30 PM, said:

Gausscharge limit needs to go
the charge itself can stay but let me fire 3 or 4 gaussrifles at once, if need be for a heat penalty or even Jamchance ...

4x Kodiak would be broken as hell, the Gauss just have little heat to deter its use. Do you even remember the 4x UAC10? And how that was mishandled?

Supposed that we kept the GH at 2. The problem is that Gauss still has infinitesimal heat that they can just keep using it.

Weapon Stat Source: https://mwomercs.com.../list/full.json

Paul Inouye, on 19 July 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

Weapons Fired	0-1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12
Heat Scale	0.00	0.08	0.18	0.30	0.45	0.60	0.80	1.10	1.50	2.00	3.00	5.00

Penalty = Base Heat of x Heat Penalty x Multiplier

Current Gauss heat is 1, with heat penalty of 8.5.

So with the formula above, that is 1 x 8.5 x 0.3 = 2.55 + 1 x 8.5 x 0.18 = 1.53

4.08 + 4 = 8.08 Total Heat.

Do we increase the Heat Multiplier instead? Maybe 24 like the AC20?

1 x 24 x 0.18 = 4.32
1 x 24 x 0.30 = 7.2

4 + 4.32 + 7.2 = 15.52 Heat.

Do you know how hot a 3x ERPPC does?

14.5 x 7 x 0.18 = 18.27
(14.5 x 3) + 18.27 = 61.77

Look, I would like to fire multiple gauss too, but with Gauss' point of being incredibly low heat, the penalty isn't really even that high that they could keep eating it up. You think merely increasing the multiplier can solve that? Technically it can, but it'll have insane numbers that 2x Gauss + PPC or 2x PPC + Gauss that would have been impossible, when it should be possible if not optimal.

[The pessimistic optimist]

dario03, on 22 February 2021 - 05:24 PM, said:

Yeah I don't get why some are calling for lights to be nerfed. Lights are the lowest scoring and last I heard lowest used class in the game. Any call for nerfing them either directly or indirectly by streak buffs or balance shifts to bigger is better doesn't really make sense.
Discussing streaks can make sense in this thread since they are a weapon and this is a weapon balance thread. But calling for just buffs to them doesn't make sense. They are for some reason balanced around being anti-light even though like I said lights are the lowest performing class. So anything that buffs streaks but doesn't nerf them against lights in some way just drives more people away from lights (or the game entirely) and thus lowers the diversity of mechs in the game.

A simple change for now would be lowering their alpha a lot but keeping dps around the same and some other slight buff like missile health. This would at least allow some more retreat time for a light when a clan streak boat pops up and starts shooting it with prelocked streaks from 400m out. (lowering range on cssrm is also an option)

The best option would be changing streaks so they had something like spread and/or amount of missiles fired based on target size or another option is to just change their tracking strength so lights could dodge some with high speed maneuvers. With those kind of changes you could then buff streaks in some other ways so that they are better vs the bigger targets that they are currently weak against. This decreases the frustration of fighting streaks in a light, and decreases the frustration of fighting bigger mechs in a streak boat so win win.

People don't know how to target legs....yea that's the problem with streaks there kryptonite to light mechs but once you start getting up in tonnage they are pretty meh compared to normal SRMs

Edited by SirSmokes, 23 February 2021 - 03:14 AM.

[Aivazovsky]

wow, so many people likes GULAG ... but what did Matt say? Is GULAG not the whole community yet? Well, where is all the community then?

+1 for GULAG, I don't agree with everything, вut damn it, do something brave with this game!

[TASADAR101]

I wish I could fire more than four heavy lasers but aside from that I feel like the current weapon balance is quite solid and hard to critique.

[KursedVixen]

TASADAR101, on 23 February 2021 - 07:35 AM, said:

I wish I could fire more than four heavy lasers but aside from that I feel like the current weapon balance is quite solid and hard to critique.

i wish heavy laser ghost heat didn't stack with non-heavy lasers

Also now that the inner sphere has their heavy PPC can we get a true Clan ERPPC with it's 15 pinpoint instead of 10+5 splash or at the very least EXPLAIN THE 5 splash damage in the readout?!!

[Alreech]

Paradoxbound, on 22 February 2021 - 04:43 PM, said:

When I am sitting in the tunnel at Crimson Strait in my Kit-Fox firing AMS through hundreds of tonnes of solid rock. That isn't a game mechanic that is broken code and I am exploiting it. If PGI claim otherwise then I would like an explanation of why.

Just switch it off, there is a key for that in the binding, or you can switch it off in the fire groups.

Edited by Alreech, 23 February 2021 - 10:18 AM.

[Martaloc]

TASADAR101, on 23 February 2021 - 07:35 AM, said:

I wish I could fire more than four heavy lasers but aside from that I feel like the current weapon balance is quite solid and hard to critique.

Solid ? Really? You know that the IS ER largelaser has 9 point dmg for 8.75 heat with 1.1 sec duration, while the clan has 10.75 dmg but for 11.8 heat with 1.35 duration esp so that the IS has 15% coldown for lasers while the clan only 10%?
And the bonus the any IS mech can shoot 3 ER largelasers ( or pulse) while the clans only two.
F..k youre balance.

Edited by Martaloc, 23 February 2021 - 10:01 AM.

[KursedVixen]

Martaloc, on 23 February 2021 - 09:59 AM, said:

Solid ? Really? You know that the IS ER largelaser has 9 point dmg for 8.75 heat with 1.1 sec duration, while the clan has 10.75 dmg but for 11.8 heat with 1.35 duration esp so that the IS has 15% coldown for lasers while the clan only 10%?
And the bonus the any IS mech can shoot 3 ER largelasers ( or pulse) while the clans only two.
F..k youre balance.

i've said for years that PGI is Inner sphere biased.... just about everything they do hurts clans.... lower hp per item more heat less heat capacity.... inner sphere gets more weapons but clan never gets HAgs or anything fun and our ATMs are nerfed to crap because "We can't do ammo swapping" and everybody is like no your wrong the game is completely balanced...

Edited by KursedVixen, 23 February 2021 - 10:32 AM.

[Alreech]

Ken Harkin, on 22 February 2021 - 03:37 PM, said:

Streak SRM need to be able to dead fire. They are useless now given the prevalence of ECM / Stealth. Let them dead fire like a standard SRM but let them dead fire. It is ridiculous that ATM and LRM can both lock and dead fire but Streak cannot.

I run a lot of Streak Mechs and LRM Boats (always with TAG and BAP), and I don't think they are useless. Mount a TAG on your Streaker, it kills off the ECM and reduces lock on time.

Quote

TAG range increase. It is ridiculously short given it should be spotting for LRMs with a far further range.

Quite the opposite, reduce the range so it's only an option for close combat Mechs & scouts (300 / 450 meters for light TAG / TAG).

At the moment LRM Boats run TAGs that work at 700 meters (& more with range quirks) so they stay way back. Reducing the range would drastic nerf such builds, while making Scouts with TAG (and maybe Streaks) more important.
LRM Boats that mount secondary weapons (Med Lasers) and fight in second line can still use TAG to get faster locks.

Quote

No LRM or ATM minimum range. At ranges under the minimum significantly increase the spread size, the closer the worse the spread. At point blank, 10 m less, the spread should be so large as to be near ineffective.

That won't be ineffective, that's an increased team damage / teamkill hazard. It would also look very strange if the missles don't leave the launcher in a straight line just to avoid a target...

IMHO each missle type should have a minimum arming distance (even SRMs) to prevent team damage / prevent that all SRMs hit the same location. Streak SRMs could have a very low minimum arming distance, Standard SRMs a higher, MRMs, LRMs & ATMs should have a large minimum arming distance.
No damage below minimum arming distance. Increase the crit bonus for standard SRMs slightly to make them more effective against targets with no armor left.

Quote

Gauss - Remove the charge mechanic. Boost cool down if you need but the charge mechanic is a nightmare. Also reduce the explosion damage from it.

Yes, Gauss Rifles need a lot of skill to use.
Removing the charge mechanic would make it a low heat alternative to the AC 20 / AC 10 with better range, faster projectil and no skill to use needed.

Quote

Standard PPC should damage at min range but drop off (either 0 - 100% at 0 - 90m or with the same damage applied as a wider and wider spread at closer range).

Just remove the minimum damage from Standard and Heavy PPCs, the long cooldown & high heat generation is bad enough.
Add additional splash damage to the IS-ER PPC.

Quote

HGR & LBX20 - Reduce space requirement.

A 10 slot HGR would fit in some arms, not quite sure if that's a good idea.
I agree on the LBX 20

Quote

RAC5 sucks. In the same space one could mount 3 RAC2 which are far more effective.

RAC5 Reduce space requirement by 1, increase damage, reduce jam build up, SOMETHING!!!

Yes, I agree on that too.

Edited by Alreech, 23 February 2021 - 10:25 AM.

[Alreech]

dario03, on 22 February 2021 - 05:24 PM, said:

Yeah I don't get why some are calling for lights to be nerfed. Lights are the lowest scoring and last I heard lowest used class in the game.

Most lights are useless in Solo Quickplay because they don't carry enough firepower and other things like capturing a control point or scouting is:
- useless due the deathmatch style gameplay of quickplay (killing instead of capturing) & nascaring (no need to scout if the enemy team always takes the same route).
- to dangerous without respawns (scouting)
- don't work due the way ECM works (no blips on the map, even with clear sight on the ECM covered mech).

[Alreech]

SQ1R1LL, on 22 February 2021 - 07:22 PM, said:

Give all the mechs the ability to have at least one AMS system hard point (whether or not people use it is up to them)

All IS Mechs have hardpoints for AMS, and most Clan Omni Mechs have at least one Omnipod with one AMS.

Most players just don't use it, or are stupid enough to move into areas without cover, even if the game mode doesn't afford it (skirmish on polar highland.. instead of using the area with buildings most move into the middle of the map).

Quote

ECM option on all the mechs would be a nice thing to. some counter to the Missile rain should be implemented since missiles are cheap and easy to get and ammo isn't scarce and expensive like it should be.

Missle rain is easy to counter with cover and AMS (if enough players use them), and ECM is useless if the LRM Boat TAGs you from 700 meters away.

While ECM is too weak against well build LRM boats, it's still to strong because it makes scouting impossible.
Even with clear sight on the Mech in ECM cover it doesn't appear on the minimap.

[KursedVixen]

Alreech, on 23 February 2021 - 10:15 AM, said:

At the moment LRM Boats run TAGs that work at 700 meters (& more with range quirks) so they stay way back. Reducing the range would drastic nerf such builds, while making Scouts with TAG (and maybe Streaks) more important.
LRM Boats that mount secondary weapons (Med Lasers) and fight in second line can still use TAG to get faster locks.




IMHO each missle type should have a minimum arming distance (even SRMs) to prevent team damage / prevent that all SRMs hit the same location. Streak SRMs could have a very low minimum arming distance, Standard SRMs a higher, MRMs, LRMs & ATMs should have a large minimum arming distance.
No damage below minimum arming distance. Increase the crit bonus for standard SRMs slightly to make them more effective against targets with no armor left.







Just remove the minimum damage from Standard and Heavy PPCs, the long cooldown & high heat generation is bad enough.
Add additional splash damage to the IS-ER PPC.

Missiles are fine for the most part but this game is about teamwork if you remove mnimium range on missiles well the you just have to work together better.

As for PPCs NO DO NOT REMOVE MINIMIUM RANGE innerpshere already has MORE weapons then they need you have 3 types of missiles 4 PPCs and likely the best autocannons the PPC is a colder altnerative to the ERPPC the the heavy PPC is a GIANT 15 damage HOT HOT ppc... Don't like the minimium range then use the ERPPC.

Removing minimium range from the other PPcs will make the ERPPC useless...because now you have 2 colder ppcs and one that's lighter that do the same thing, also your mech is a multi weapons platform not an PPC boat use other weapons to fill the gaps.

I rarely boat anything and always have multiple weapons for different ranges even my splatcrow has a small pulse... or a small laser i forget which... point is don't limit yourself to one weapon type...and even then don't limit yourself to one class of that weapon type. sure there are mechs were you are forced to boat, like one of the rifleman IICS....but other than that keep a varied weapons loadout..


The PPC has always been a high damage HOT weapon that's how energy weapons work.... energy weapons trade size and ammo for heat like how the LAMS works it trades ammo for heat.

Edited by KursedVixen, 23 February 2021 - 11:23 AM.

[KursedVixen]

Is there a way to make streaks dumbifre but if you dumbfire you don't get the lock on? the problem with streaks is you get a light with steatlh to close or something to get a lock and you end up with dead weapons not all mechs carry a tag or narc to disable stealth so a dumbfire mode on streaks would help but there needs to be a way to make them so that they don't make normal SRMs extinct maybe dumbfire streaks only fire half of their max except for 2's maybe... there's got to be some way to do this without making Streaks the defacto short range missiles other than SRms weighting less.


also can we please give stealth armor back it's no heat reduction it seems ludicrious to whatch a stealth mech pelt an assault with lasers and then walk off to cool if it shouldn't cool down at all with stealth engaged you should be forced to used mg's or very low heat weapons with stealth on.... that or increases the number of counters to it.

Edited by KursedVixen, 23 February 2021 - 11:37 AM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

JIKOSU, on 23 February 2021 - 10:56 AM, said:

GAUSS RIFLES!!!!!! please up the damage to 20!!!! even if they have worse other things, the point of the gun is long range head shots!!! please up the damage and I might start using them.

No

KursedVixen, on 23 February 2021 - 11:34 AM, said:

Is there a way to make streaks dumbifre but if you dumbfire you don't get the lock on? the problem with streaks is you get a light with steatlh to close or something to get a lock and you end up with dead weapons not all mechs carry a tag or narc to disable stealth so a dumbfire mode on streaks would help but there needs to be a way to make them so that they don't make normal SRMs extinct maybe dumbfire streaks only fire half of their max except for 2's maybe... there's got to be some way to do this without making Streaks the defacto short range missiles other than SRms weighting less.


also can we please give stealth armor back it's no heat reduction it seems ludicrious to whatch a stealth mech pelt an assault with lasers and then walk off to cool if it shouldn't cool down at all with stealth engaged you should be forced to used mg's or very low heat weapons with stealth on.... that or increases the number of counters to it.

Just no its one few thing IS has that Clan doesn't. Clan still have the best tech pool in the game no matter what anyone says

Edited by SirSmokes, 23 February 2021 - 12:23 PM.