615 replies to this topic

[Capt Deadpool]

My .02 cents...

Listen to Navid and Krasnopesky.

IS MPL boats and MRM boats are ez mode.

[KursedVixen]

SirSmokes, on 23 February 2021 - 12:21 PM, said:

No



Just no its one few thing IS has that Clan doesn't. Clan still have the best tech pool in the game no matter what anyone says

Heavy guass? Single shot autocannons? Light fusion engines? Heacy PPC? MRMs? removable masc removable jump jets. more mechs more weapons You've got plenty... i'd also argue IS light mechs are the best light mechs in the game.

Edited by KursedVixen, 23 February 2021 - 12:44 PM.

[FupDup]

KursedVixen, on 23 February 2021 - 12:39 PM, said:

Heavy guass? Single shot autocannons? Light fusion engines? Heacy PPC? MRMs? removable masc removable jump jets. more mechs more weapons You've got plenty... i'd also argue IS light mechs are the best light mechs in the game.

Just wanna point out here that MASC being removable is not an IS advantage, it's a Battlemech advantage. Any Clan Battlemechs that get MASC will be able to remove it and any IS Omnimechs with MASC would not be able to remove it.

Also I dunno why you're listing the Light Fusion Engine as an advantage. It has the same slots and durability as the Clan XL but requires more tonnage. It's a pure downgrade. Any IS mech that is good with LFE would be stronger with CXL if they could mount it.

Edited by FupDup, 23 February 2021 - 01:17 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

KursedVixen, on 23 February 2021 - 12:39 PM, said:

Heavy guass? Single shot autocannons? Light fusion engines? Heacy PPC? MRMs? removable masc removable jump jets. more mechs more weapons You've got plenty... i'd also argue IS light mechs are the best light mechs in the game.

Lighter weapons,Clan XL>light fusion>better lasers range and damge IS AC pay for that with being heavy over all Clan can pack way more punch and IS is only compeative with Clan because of quirking. The one I will give you with ballistics is RACs

JIKOSU, on 23 February 2021 - 01:17 PM, said:

and I do think the IS have to many varied weapons, you also forgot about rocket launchers

variety doesn't mean better tech

Edited by SirSmokes, 23 February 2021 - 01:21 PM.

[JIKOSU]

you do have a point about the light, FupDup, hey, wait, I think I have killed you before, I see you in matches a lot.

[Duke Falcon]

Clan PPC deal humorous damage. It need to beef a bit as currently it is useless. How could a large pulse-laser do more damage than a PPC?! 10 damage is hilarious and render it useless for it's current heat-gen, space\crit reqs and price.
Also feel AMSs a bit overpowered. I always use them myself because it is a guarantee almost never hit by missiles! 1 from 10 times could lrm-15 or 20 reach my mechs and deal damage.
Why gauss explodes? And why it works so intricatively complex? Both the explosion and the need to manually charge is silly. If charge the gauss necessary then PPC also need that (DO NOT EVEN DARE)...
Clan pulse lasers are way to unbalanced. Smalls are useless but larges are "instakillermonstas" if packed by 2-3 on a mech.
That were my thoughts about the weapons, sorry if were offensive or rude mayhaps.

[KursedVixen]

FupDup, on 23 February 2021 - 01:16 PM, said:

Also I dunno why you're listing the Light Fusion Engine as an advantage. It has the same slots and durability as the Clan XL but requires more tonnage. It's a pure downgrade. Any IS mech that is good with LFE would be stronger with CXL if they could mount it.

we use to be able to remove jump jets from omnis that didn't come with them fixed like the kit fox, i don't care about removing maSC, I'm listing LFE because it's something IS got when clan got nothing just like how with the civil war IS got a Crap ton of new weapons but all Clans got was Atm and light machine guns. Could have given clan Hags at least make them fire like rotaries no jam but maybe higher heat or something to offset it.

Last i recall rockets where high damage single shot weapons, and in MWO their multi shot i think...

Edited by KursedVixen, 23 February 2021 - 01:54 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

KursedVixen, on 23 February 2021 - 01:26 PM, said:

we use to be able to remove jump jets from omnis that didn't come with them fixed like the kit fox, i don't care about removing maSC, I'm listing LFE because it's something IS got when clan got nothing just like how with the civil war IS got a Crap ton of new weapons but all Clans got was Atm and light machine guns. Could have given clan Hags at least make them fire like rotaries no jam but maybe higher heat or something to offset it.

Last i recall rockets where high damage single shot weapons, and in MWO their multi shot i think...

I love heavy lasers and no rockets are fire and forget one shot and they got nerfed...with a minimum range

Edited by SirSmokes, 23 February 2021 - 01:34 PM.

[FupDup]

KursedVixen, on 23 February 2021 - 01:26 PM, said:

we use to be able to remove jump jets from omnis that didn't come with them fixed like the kit fox, i don't care about removing maSC, I'm listing LFE because it's something IS got when clan got nothing just like how with the civil war IS got a Crap ton of new weapons but all Clans got was Atm and light machine guns. Could have given clan Hags at least make them fire like rotaries no jam but maybe higher heat or something to offset it.

I think the JJ thing could be reversed because the meta has changed and power has crept sufficiently that it wouldn't be an issue anymore.

The Clans don't have any other engine types except the XXL, which the IS also has (but it's bulkier as with most IS stuff). The IS meanwhile also gets the Compact Engine, which kinda sucks but it's a thing.

I would interpret HAGS in MWO as firing a stream of projectiles like MRMs, but with a charge-up before firing. Bear in mind that Clans get real RACs of their own eventually.

In general, the lack of new Clan toys in the Civil War is a symptom of the fact that the Clans in BT just don't have that many different items. The reason the IS pumps out so many toys is because they try to imitate Clan tech but generally produce downgrades or sidegrades. The Clans don't need to do that because the few items they have are very strong and they set the baseline that the IS has to measure up against. It does make them pretty boring though.

Edited by FupDup, 23 February 2021 - 01:40 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

FupDup, on 23 February 2021 - 01:37 PM, said:

I think the JJ thing could be reversed because the meta has changed and power has crept sufficiently that it wouldn't be an issue anymore.

The Clans don't have any other engine types except the XXL, which the IS also has (but it's bulkier as with most IS stuff). The IS meanwhile also gets the Compact Engine, which kinda sucks but it's a thing.

I would interpret HAGS in MWO as firing a stream of projectiles like MRMs, but with a charge-up before firing. Bear in mind that Clans get real RACs of their own eventually.

In general, the lack of new Clan toys in the Civil War is a symptom of the fact that the Clans in BT just don't have that many different items. The reason the IS pumps out so many toys is because they try to imitate Clan tech but generally produce downgrades or sidegrades. The Clans don't need to do that because the few items they have are very strong and they set the baseline that the IS has to measure up against. It does make them pretty boring though.

Give Clans ER pulse HAGS chemical lasers and Clan RACs

[KursedVixen]

SirSmokes, on 23 February 2021 - 01:53 PM, said:

Give Clans ER pulse HAGS chemical lasers and Clan RACs

clan racs are one of the few clan weapons that i think weight more than Is that or are bigger because they used endo-steel.

clan racs are larger

i would prefer Hags over racs and the spin up time would be fine.

Edited by KursedVixen, 23 February 2021 - 01:58 PM.

[FupDup]

KursedVixen, on 23 February 2021 - 01:56 PM, said:

clan racs are one of the few clan weapons that i think weight more than Is that or are bigger because they used endo-steel.

Their tonnage is the same but their slots are +1 larger.

[KursedVixen]

FupDup, on 23 February 2021 - 01:58 PM, said:

Their tonnage is the same but their slots are +1 larger.

but clan racs have longer range i still think i'd prefer hags though.

[KursedVixen]

FupDup, on 23 February 2021 - 01:37 PM, said:

I think the JJ thing could be reversed because the meta has changed and power has crept sufficiently that it wouldn't be an issue anymore.

The Clans don't have any other engine types except the XXL, which the IS also has (but it's bulkier as with most IS stuff). The IS meanwhile also gets the Compact Engine, which kinda sucks but it's a thing.

I would interpret HAGS in MWO as firing a stream of projectiles like MRMs, but with a charge-up before firing. Bear in mind that Clans get real RACs of their own eventually.

In general, the lack of new Clan toys in the Civil War is a symptom of the fact that the Clans in BT just don't have that many different items. The reason the IS pumps out so many toys is because they try to imitate Clan tech but generally produce downgrades or sidegrades. The Clans don't need to do that because the few items they have are very strong and they set the baseline that the IS has to measure up against. It does make them pretty boring though.

clans also had Ferro lamelor armor.

Duke Falcon, on 23 February 2021 - 01:22 PM, said:

Clan PPC deal humorous damage. It need to beef a bit as currently it is useless. How could a large pulse-laser do more damage than a PPC?! 10 damage is hilarious and render it useless for it's current heat-gen, space\crit reqs and price.
Also feel AMSs a bit overpowered. I always use them myself because it is a guarantee almost never hit by missiles! 1 from 10 times could lrm-15 or 20 reach my mechs and deal damage.
Why gauss explodes? And why it works so intricatively complex? Both the explosion and the need to manually charge is silly. If charge the gauss necessary then PPC also need that (DO NOT EVEN DARE)...
Clan pulse lasers are way to unbalanced. Smalls are useless but larges are "instakillermonstas" if packed by 2-3 on a mech.
That were my thoughts about the weapons, sorry if were offensive or rude mayhaps.

yeah i think small pulse on both sides need some love.... specially the clan one.. with full laser duration quirks the er small seems almost better than a clan small pulse. Clan ERPPC needs to do it's canon 15 damage.... it's absurd that you can do more damage with a large pulse or even a large laser.


I wonder if returning the clan er medium back to it's 450 range would hurt?

Edited by KursedVixen, 23 February 2021 - 03:24 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

KursedVixen, on 23 February 2021 - 11:12 AM, said:

As for PPCs NO DO NOT REMOVE MINIMIUM RANGE innerpshere already has MORE weapons then they need you have 3 types of missiles 4 PPCs and likely the best autocannons the PPC is a colder altnerative to the ERPPC the the heavy PPC is a GIANT 15 damage HOT HOT ppc... Don't like the minimium range then use the ERPPC.

Removing minimium range from the other PPcs will make the ERPPC useless...because now you have 2 colder ppcs and one that's lighter that do the same thing, also your mech is a multi weapons platform not an PPC boat use other weapons to fill the gaps.

Minimum Range is a garbage mechanic for something hot and direct-fired, it's not like homing missiles that autoaims for you and can IDF. The main advantage of ERPPCs is their range, not their lack of minimum range.

The ERPPCs and SNPPCs shouldn't be just calibrated around their no minimum range, they should have more positive aspects. The ERPPC is already good at long range, maybe increase velocity to 2100 for relevance and synergy with LGR. The SNPPC instead could be cold enough for brawling.    
ERPPC's main advantage is long range use.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 23 February 2021 - 03:15 PM.

[KursedVixen]

The6thMessenger, on 23 February 2021 - 03:12 PM, said:

Minimum Range is a garbage mechanic for something hot and direct-fired, it's not like homing missiles that autoaims for you and can IDF. The main advantage of ERPPCs is their range, not their lack of minimum range.

The ERPPCs and SNPPCs shouldn't be just calibrated around their no minimum range, they should have more positive aspects. The ERPPC is already good at long range, maybe increase velocity to 2100 for relevance and synergy with LGR. The SNPPC instead could be cold enough for brawling.
ERPPC's main advantage is long range use.

PPCs are equipped with a Field Inhibitorto prevent feedback which could damage the firing unit's electronic systems. This inhibitor degrades the performance of the weapon at close ranges of less than 90 meters. Particularly daring warriors have been known to disengage the inhibitor and risk damage to their own machine when a target is at close range.

fine have your minimium range at the cost of destroying your PPC, or frying your ecm or sensors.

let's just give clan ATms no minimium as well.

i bet you nobody would carry an ERPPC again if the ppc had no minimium... it's colder does the same damage so by removing the minimium range you have effectivly made the ERPPC useless.

Edited by KursedVixen, 23 February 2021 - 03:40 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

KursedVixen, on 23 February 2021 - 03:33 PM, said:

[color=#000000]PPCs are equipped with a Field Inhibitor[to prevent feedback which could damage the firing unit's electronic systems.] This inhibitor degrades the performance of the weapon at close ranges of less than 90 meters. Particularly daring warriors have been known to disengage the inhibitor and risk damage to their own machine when a target is at close range.[/color]

fine have your minimium range at the cost of destroying your PPC, or frying your ecm or sensors.

Look at you retreating to lore, when your initial argument was about balance.

This is not TT, this is FPS Mech Arcade. We're talking about balance, flavor comes after.

KursedVixen, on 23 February 2021 - 03:33 PM, said:

let's just give clan ATms no minimium as well.

Yes actually, of course normalize the damage first, as in reduce close-range damage and increase long range damage.

ATM's point is that it's usable at all ranges because of ammo switching. PGI halfassed that by consolidating all ammo into one, with HE afflicted with minimum range while also gaining increased ammo capacity and the extended range reduced and is too wasteful to use.

KursedVixen, on 23 February 2021 - 03:33 PM, said:

i bet you nobody would carry an ERPPC again if the ppc had no minimium... it's colder does the same damage so by removing the minimium range you have effectivly made the ERPPC useless.

Point of ERPPC is long range use, not close-range defense. It's all the matter of making long range combat more common and relevant. It's pointless to just compare PPC and ERPPC 1:1, because the two have different niches that they fill.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 23 February 2021 - 04:23 PM.

[FupDup]

I think returning the damage reduction for min range would be fine. Doing outright zero damage when somebody steps from 90 to 89 meters is just sucky to use.

[ShooterMcGavin80]

IMHO:

Autocannons: Standard, UAC, and LBX.

I really have no issues with any autocannons, clan or IS. The autocannons you don't see much of on the battlefield are: IS standard AC10's, but they're actually decent, so only the slightest of buffs (5% cooldown maybe?) for them. Also the IS LB5X doesn’t get much usage, a tiny buff in some direction other might be helpful for it. Otherwise I would not mess with IS AC’s, UAC’s, or LBX’s. The clan standard AC5, 10, and 20 are basically never used. Maybe they could be spiced up by reducing the number of shells they use and increasing their velocity. AC5: 1 shell, AC10: 2 shells, AC20: 2 shells. You might actually see some on the battlefield, but I don’t think it would be a game-changer. Also, like the IS LB5X, the clan LB5X is also barely ever used. Maybe a cooldown or spread buff would help it out. Otherwise clan AC’s and UAC’s are doing fine. UAC10’s and UAC5’s are great en masse, and AC2’s LB2X’s, LB10X’s, and LB20X’s are doin’ fine. Clan UAC2’s are really getting outshined by clan AC2’s. But I wouldn’t nerf clan AC2’s, I’d slightly buff the UAC2 (less heat, less jam chance).

RAC’s:

They’re fine. Triple RAC2 is outshining 2xRAC5, but honestly I don’t think they need to be messed with. Maybe a velocity or ammo capacity buff to RAC5’s, or a slight heat or rampdown buff to the RAC5’s to make them slightly more appealing, but nothing major.

Machine Guns:

Fine. I think LMG’s got nerfed a little too hard, they’re kinda useless again. Nerfing them was good I think, but maybe reduce their spread back to the point where they’re not a laser beam, but they’re something much tighter than what they are right now. HMG’s you usually never see, but I do have them on a few builds and they’re fun, I wouldn’t mess with them. Would be interesting to have the LBX spread nodes also affect machine gun spread, giving a slight MG spread reduction.

Gauss Rifles:

The only ones that really need possible tuning are the light gauss. The only semi-effective light gauss build right now is the quad light gauss Fafnir. Single or double light gauss builds are pretty anemic. If you give it a damage buff, it needs a cooldown nerf. The light gauss is something to play with.

IS lasers:

In general, IS lasers outperform clan lasers at this point. The burn time is significantly shorter and the heat is significantly more manageable. IS MPL's are crazy easy beast weapons. ML's are fantastic, I'd prefer an IS ML over a Clan ERSL even though it is a half ton heavier. I can perform much more consistently in an IS laserboat or IS MPL skirmisher than I can in any clan laser vomit mech. IS ML, LL, ERLL, SL, MPL, LPL, are all great. The only IS lasers you don't see that much of are ERSL, SPL, and ERML. All in all, though, I feel like IS lasers are pretty close to where they need to be, so they don't need a huge nerfbat, just a slight adjustment. Maybe a tiny 5% or less burn time increase and heat increase on all but the ERSL, SPL, and ERML. Give the ERSL, SPL, and ERML the tiniest of buffs to see if they become more usable.

Clan lasers:

Fun, but basically terrible anywhere outside a safe midrange peaking game. Clan lasers are basically completely ineffective against lights and many mediums. The decently performing but not great: LPL, MPL, ERLL, ERML, ERuL, HLL, HML, HSL. The terrible: SPL, uPL, ERSL. I would give the 'good but not great' lasers tiny (5% or so) reductions in heat and burn time, and for the terrible give: SPL: more damage, uPL - tiny bit more of something, ERSL - less heat, less burn time.

PPC’s

PPC’s both clan and IS are in a good place. The only one to slightly possibly mess with are the light PPC’s, which never see much use. I think they pair great with AC5’s, but they’re hardly meta or prominent on the battlefield. Only a sliiight cooldown reduction and heat reduction might make them more prominent. <EDIT Maybe de-link LPPC's from the PPC/Gauss heat penaltly group, so you can fire 2xGR + 3xLPPC without ghost heat? Could create some unique usable but not OP builds. EDIT> Snub PPC’s are also not used much, but I wouldn’t give them more than a tiny (5% or less) heat reduction. Clan ERPPC’s are one of the few good weapons the clan has, and they’re borderline too hot, but they’re fine. Keep’em where they’re at.

Flamers:

I never use them. I saw somebody else suggest to give them the same DPS as a light machine gun. I don’t know if I’d go that far, but I’d consider giving them maybe .25 DPS. But do we really need more flamers? Ugh. Maybe only .2 DPS.

TAG:

TAG and LTAG are fine.

LRM’s

Honestly, they’re fine. I preferred having higher-arc LRM’s all the time (less ability to dodge behind low cover). But the low-arc LOS mechanic didn’t break LRM’s, they’re still okay. IS LRM’s are naaaasty, clan LRM’s also have good raw DPS. LRM’s are fine, both artemis and non-artemis varieties. LRM5’s both clan and IS are basically useless, but I don’t think there’s really anything that can be done about it nor really any benefit to buffing LRM5’s in some crazy way.

ATM’s

They’re fine. They’re powerful, but they can get shut down by heavy AMS/ECM/cover presence. Much like LRM’s the smaller launchers (ATM3, ATM6) are kinda useless, but I am not sure what benefit giving them a big buff would really serve. They already have an AMS resistance buff, maybe just give them a cooldown buff too?

MRM’s

Also fine, great even. 10’s, 20’s, 30’s and 40’s are all good.

SSRM

Streaks are also fine. Unlike LRM’s and ATM’s, they suffer less from the small launcher sucks syndrome, SSRM2’s en masse are not terrible. Big launcher is still king though. All in all would not change streaks.

SRM:

Only real grippe here is how clan SRM’s without artemis have teeerrrible spread, making their effective range basically point-blank. Tighten that up a tiny bit (5 or 10%). Especially the clan SRM2 and SRM2A. Also IS SRM’s do not need the damage increase over clan SRM’s. They already have very effective nice tight spread, making them awesome brawling weapons.

NARC:

Fine.

Rockets:

Meh, they’re fine. Wouldn’t buff them. Getting killed every now and then from a rocket troll does not need a buff.

AMS:

Fine. Initially I hated the ‘smaller launchers have more AMS resistant missiles’ mechanic, but effectively it hasn’t changed gameplay. Only mechanic change I think needs to be that you can switch off AMS or laser AMS independently. I think right now if you switch off AMS you switch off both types. Or at least a buddy mentioned that as an issue.

Edited by ShooterMcGavin80, 24 February 2021 - 02:36 PM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

KursedVixen, on 23 February 2021 - 03:10 PM, said:

Clan ERPPC needs to do it's canon 15 damage.... it's absurd that you can do more damage with a large pulse or even a large laser.

You realize that in fact the C-ER PPC does 15 damage, right? It just doesnt apply them pinpoint, rather 10 pinpoint plus 2x2.5 splash. Just saying. Making proposals on false presumptions seems kind of pointless to me.