615 replies to this topic

[Alreech]

KursedVixen, on 23 February 2021 - 12:39 PM, said:

Heavy guass?

11 Slot Weapon that only fits in the side torso, forces you to use a standard engine and will destroy your mech if it gets critted.
Totally op to the Clan Gauss rifle that you can mount in CASE proteced arms & torsi.

Quote

Single shot autocannons?

lighter autocannons that need less slots & tonnage?

Quote

Light fusion engines?

same rules as Clan XL engines, but with a lower rating = lower speed and less heat sinks

Quote

Heacy PPC?

Heavy Large Lasers with less tonnage & slots and hit scan & heat during burntime instead a slow plasma bolt and heat shock?

Quote

MRMs?

SRMs and LRMs that only need 50% of the tonnage of their IS counterparts, use less slots and do more damage in minimum range?
Lock On / dumb fire capable ATMs ?

Quote

removable masc removable jump jets.

Just use IIC Mechs if you want removable masc & jump jets.
You also get CASE in each location, Endo Steel & Ferror Fibrous with 50% of the slots the IS counterparts need and double heat sinks you can mount in Legs & CT because they need 1/3 less slots.

[Lanzman]

Gauss rifles: get rid of the charge-up mechanic. Gauss rifles explode when critted because they're always charged except for the moment they fire.

Ghost heat: should not be a thing AT ALL. The entire way heat is handled in this game is wrong. For example, if my 'mech has ten double heat sinks then it can dissipate 20 "points" of heat in X time. Period. If I generate more heat than that before dissipating what I've already accumulated, then it adds up and Hilarity Ensues. But firing three PPCs should not cause any additional penalties above the heat generated by firing three PPCs. If I've mounted the heat sinks to dissipate that much heat, then I shouldn't see any penalty for it.

Speaking of PPCs (all models), my only change here would be to make the PPC bolt look more lightning-ish.

Lasers (all models): I think this is the best weapon type in the game as far as actual game mechanics. About the only change I'd suggest to any of 'em is better sound effects.

LB-X autocannon: need to be lighter and take up one less slot than the corresponding standard A/C. And for the love of God, switchable ammunition types! That's the entire point of the LB-X class!

Standard autocannon: fine as far as game mechanics, but I'd like the visual presentation to be different. They're generally not supposed to be single-projectile weapons, but more like gigantic machine guns firing bursts. So an AC2 should go "bangbang," an AC5 "bangbangbangbangbang" and so forth. Clan autocannon get this effect mostly right.

Ultra Autocannon: seem fine, just need more visual/auditory "bangbangbang" when double-tapping.

RACs: less heat for the RAC-5. Should be able to fire two RAC-5s without cooking yourself.

SRMs: seem pretty good, just make them corkscrew in flight a little.

MRMs: Like these but they tend to be hot. Maybe reduce the heat a little?

LRMs: everybody's favorite to whine about. LRMs should not be lock-on weapons - they're not Streaks. The only time an LRM rack should be able to lock-and-track is if the target has been NARCed or is being hit by a TAG. Otherwise the missiles should go where the crosshairs are. And add Swarm and Thunder missiles.

Flamers: should generate less heat when you fire them. Should also have a "persistent" effect on the target, so if you hit a bad guy with your flamer, that 'mech should continue to "burn" for a few seconds after the flamer is off of it.

Machine guns: Seem to be fine.

Edited by Lanzman, 24 February 2021 - 11:06 AM.

[Chaotic_Harmony]

Just listen to the Gulag. Please for the love of god.

[Alreech]

Duke Falcon, on 24 February 2021 - 09:04 AM, said:

I not understand the resistance about render the C ER-PPC what it should be.

I agree, you clearly don't understand that MWO is a PvP first person shooter and using values in it from a - not very balanced - table top boardgame is a bad idea.

Quote

https://www.sarna.ne...rojector_Cannon
It does 15 damage, read and see. No pinpoint-splashy-smashy-fluffy-madness and such. To make it clear the whole splash damage is ****. ALL PPC variations do splash damage or none. No exception, no damage smurfing because IS-love. PPCs are like thunderbolts: Hit, create enormous pinpoint damage because of impact energy and generated heat BUT also have splash effect as such heat-impulse literally generate small explosion cover larger surface area of the target. If PPC works in BattleTech as it could be in RL.

Yes, IS ER-PPCs and PPCs should do the same damage as their clan counterparts, because they weight more and need more slots.

So 15 damage for the PPC & IS ER PPC, and 20 for the Heavy PPC.

Also all Clan Mechs should be in one team with 5 players, and should be sent agains a team of 8 to 12 IS Mechs.
And players in Clan Mechs should get a kick bann if they do killstealing for breaking of Zellbringen.

To be serious:
Clan vs IS balance was fracked up in the Battletech Tabletop (the reason why FASA introduced later "improved" IS weapons) and PGI was stupid to use those stats in a PVP first person shooter.

Quote

But as another topic, for IS-love: Arrow IV & Thunderbolt. If you got them you would never complain against restored ER-PPC ever again. Hill-humpers would run to refit their mechs with those for sure. Be those the Xmas present for ISers then let the community calm and play as it should be...

Clans use the Arrow IV too, it's even lighter than it's IS counter part.... let me guess, you also want the better Clan Arrow IV too in MWO?
https://www.sarna.ne...ow_IV_Artillery

[Alreech]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 24 February 2021 - 10:41 AM, said:

this is so pointless... this nonsense is cluttering the discussion. Just go with the Gulag suggestions for this first pass and see how it goes from there. These people at least know what they are talking about and don't bring lore aspects into the argument...

But lore is important! Especially in Solo Quickplay with it's mixed tech teams.

Also the weapons stats of the boardgame must be used in MWO first person shooter gameplay, because Battletech was the best balanced table top boardgame of all times !!!!11111.

[Lanzman]

No lore = no BattleTech = no MechWarrior. That said, obviously tabletop rules and values aren't gonna work in this setting. But some of the way things DO work seem like change for the sake of change.

[Duke Falcon]

Quote

I agree, you clearly don't understand that MWO is a PvP first person shooter and using values in it from a - not very balanced - table top boardgame is a bad idea.

Quote

Also the weapons stats of the boardgame must be used in MWO first person shooter gameplay, because Battletech was the best balanced table top boardgame of all times !!!!

Alreech, I am sorry what I written and humble accept your opinion.

[Piffle]

1) Please review how much ammo is provided vs. how much is used per "shot" for Auto-cannon. Last time I checked, the C-UAC 20 had less ammo per ton _and_ used more rounds per trigger-pull than its counterparts. if you could adjust the system so "shots" of ammo = "trigger pulls" of ammo, I think you'd be horrified to see how ammo inefficient the larger UACs are. I'd point to the Sun Spider-D as a prime example of this problem: 4 tons of ammo in its default config won't get it half way through a match, even with all the increased jam chance.

2) Losing a second shot _and_ adding an extended cool down time for jams seems like a double punishment, and makes larger UACs hard to justify in a brawl.
a ) Request you eliminate jam chance for UAC _if they aren't double-tapped_. This would allow the pilot to choose when to risk jamming vs. more damage, which would mimic the table top version and could greatly improve game play. It would also reduce the "negative surprise" of getting off only one of the 2x shots you were hoping for, thus reduce the screaming of players at their screens. If a person is going to push, they at least want to get their full first salvo, even if all their UACs immediately jam...
b ) Alternately, continue to allow UACs to jam on the first of 2x shots as they do now, but instead of having a jam bar, just have them not fire the second shot.

Edited by Piffle, 24 February 2021 - 12:39 PM.

[KursedVixen]

Duke Falcon, on 24 February 2021 - 09:04 AM, said:

I not understand the resistance about render the C ER-PPC what it should be.
https://www.sarna.ne...rojector_Cannon
It does 15 damage, read and see. No pinpoint-splashy-smashy-fluffy-madness and such. To make it clear the whole splash damage is ****. ALL PPC variations do splash damage or none. No exception, no damage smurfing because IS-love. PPCs are like thunderbolts: Hit, create enormous pinpoint damage because of impact energy and generated heat BUT also have splash effect as such heat-impulse literally generate small explosion cover larger surface area of the target. If PPC works in BattleTech as it could be in RL.
If not, why the debate? Do whatever and mage MGs do 2000 damage because it is all theory bends by the will of people not necessary need consistency. I understand why IS players want weaker PPCs, IS weapons are inferior basicly, downgraded and obsolate while clan-tech shines as new. If want balance it not comes with the ****ing of damage outputs of the weapons. Rise price, set up availability prerequisites or such. But rethink the ER-PPC on both sides is a true necessity. Remember: IS 10 while Clan 15 damage + splash for both or none.
Or want to insist that cPPCs may also explode on hit like Gauss (what a foolishment)? Because theoretically both could act like that if got hit just prior the firing, when their coils are charged, ready to fire. Otherwise none of them explodes. Why should? Magnetic weapons not explode! Noone got his or her house exploded by funny play with magnetic acceleration, come on!
But as another topic, for IS-love: Arrow IV & Thunderbolt. If you got them you would never complain against restored ER-PPC ever again. Hill-humpers would run to refit their mechs with those for sure. Be those the Xmas present for ISers then let the community calm and play as it should be...
Thanks.
...again...

gotta nerf that clan always apparently that's why...

[KodiakGW]

Just adding this so nobody can say I didn’t participate when is make posts on Outreach after the patch notes drop.

How about you read the community document dropped months ago and choose some? If not:
CSPL to 5 damage, all other stats back to where they were pre nerf.
UAC random jam replaced by bar like RACs
Regular ACs that are 1 slot bigger than their UAC counterparts decreased 1 slot to be equal crit points

and even though it is not a weapon change:
TBR mobility increased to equal Sun Spider

Reason/logic for all of those already given multiple times. Not going to rehash again when I know it won’t be considered. Won’t be responding to comments. Want a response, come on over to Outreach.

[KapitanTarget]

Frankly, as a player of mostly Medium and up 'Mechs, my biggest problems these days have to do with Pirahna, Flea, Locust, and other MG boats. Not only are they SO small that they get under even the arm reach of most 'Mechs. but the massed MG fire gives no option for redress before you are destroyed. I propose, therefore, a penalty to accuracy when a large number of MGs, say more than 4, are fired at once - not that they miss, but that the damage spreads, much like missiles or LBX AC's. That much recoil shake is bound to move the fire streams around after all. Alternately they could start focused well and spread more and more with sustained fire, to the point where after three or four seconds they may well miss even in close. That inaccuracy would cool off just slightly slower than it was gained - 2 seconds MG fire might take 2.25 seconds to recover back to full accuracy, for instance. The kind of shake you see on a target crosshair when jumping comes to mind. Lighter MG's would suffer least, standards moderately, and heavies most of all.

As justification, I recall a probable misquote attributed to Mikhail Kalashnikov, who as inventor of the AK 47 ought to know about full auto... "At one round the rifle is accurate. Two or three rounds, less so but acceptable. Anything beyond that and it is an antiaircraft weapon."

-KapitanTarget

PS: Let me reiterate, all of this applies only to large blocks (4+?) of MG's used at once.

Edited by KapitanTarget, 24 February 2021 - 02:47 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

KodiakGW, on 24 February 2021 - 01:16 PM, said:

How about you read the community document dropped months ago and choose some?.

Is that different to the gulag? Your suggestion doesn't sound like the Gulag.

KodiakGW, on 24 February 2021 - 01:16 PM, said:

UAC random jam replaced by bar like RACs.

Interesting concept. Kind of like MWLL right? I honestly prefer predictability in my UAC.

KodiakGW, on 24 February 2021 - 01:16 PM, said:

Regular ACs that are 1 slot bigger than their UAC counterparts decreased 1 slot to be equal crit points

Cool I guess, but I'm wary of changing sizes. I mean sure the slots kind of make sense, but I don't know what kind of precedence would follow in builds.

[FupDup]

The6thMessenger, on 24 February 2021 - 02:42 PM, said:

Cool I guess, but I'm wary of changing sizes. I mean sure the slots kind of make sense, but I don't know what kind of precedence would follow in builds.

If it were to be done then I think it should be restricted to CACs only since they're not even supposed to canonically exist. Canon weapons don't ever get size changes.

[The6thMessenger]

FupDup, on 24 February 2021 - 02:47 PM, said:

If it were to be done then I think it should be restricted to CACs only since they're not even supposed to canonically exist. Canon weapons don't ever get size changes.

Yeah, I guess so. I wasn't really concerned with lore in the first place.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 24 February 2021 - 02:52 PM.

[RamRanchCowboys]

Guess I'll give my thoughts.

IS Ballistics:

AC and LBX 2s could stand to lose a ton. There is really no in between weapons in terms of tonnage between them and machine guns, so it's either use 6 tons on the lowest damage autocannon or go with machine guns.

Every other AC, Ultra AC, and LBX seems to be okay.

Rotary AC2s are fine, Rotary AC5 runs a bit hot but not by much. Maybe like .5 off the heat?

Machines guns are okay bar the standard MG. It feels like it could use a small range buff to 300 max 150 optimal.

Gauss in general is kinda bad. You'll know when you get hit by them for sure, but using them myself they always fell kind of short compared to other loadouts. Also ammo per ton is kind of an issue with them. Maybe tweak that up by like one round per ton.

IS Energy:

Flamers are borderline useless. Feels like they need a 10m range buff or reduce the ramp down time.

Every laser feels okay.

Light PPCs are almost useless, along with anything other than the snub nose or ER variants.

IS Missile:

Everyone seems to hate LRMs but honestly they're fine if your teammates with AMS actually pay attention and stay with the group. They're fine where they're at.

MRMs are extra hot. Knock like .5 off the heat and they'd be more usable.

SRMs are incredibly situational but well balanced.

Laser AMS is kind of hot, maybe take off like .15 /sec of heat.

Clan Ballistics:
Aside from the Gauss rifle being too heavy for what it does and the machine gun issue which is the same as the IS version, they all seem okay.

Clan Energy:
Flamer is still bad but everything else seems okay.

Clan missiles:
I rarely use ATMs so have no opinion there, but everything else seems okay.

Relatively new player at a little over 2 months, though I'd like to think I'm not bad at the game. I know this is a balance thread and not a game feature one, but I think maybe a new weapon system between machine guns and ACs in terms of tonnage would be nice.

[KursedVixen]

RamRanchCowboys, on 24 February 2021 - 03:29 PM, said:

Guess I'll give my thoughts.

IS Ballistics:

AC and LBX 2s could stand to lose a ton. There is really no in between weapons in terms of tonnage between them and machine guns, so it's either use 6 tons on the lowest damage autocannon or go with machine guns.

Every other AC, Ultra AC, and LBX seems to be okay.

Rotary AC2s are fine, Rotary AC5 runs a bit hot but not by much. Maybe like .5 off the heat?

Machines guns are okay bar the standard MG. It feels like it could use a small range buff to 300 max 150 optimal.

Gauss in general is kinda bad. You'll know when you get hit by them for sure, but using them myself they always fell kind of short compared to other loadouts. Also ammo per ton is kind of an issue with them. Maybe tweak that up by like one round per ton.


IS Energy:

Flamers are borderline useless. Feels like they need a 10m range buff or reduce the ramp down time.

Every laser feels okay.

Light PPCs are almost useless, along with anything other than the snub nose or ER variants.

IS Missile:

Everyone seems to hate LRMs but honestly they're fine if your teammates with AMS actually pay attention and stay with the group. They're fine where they're at.

MRMs are extra hot. Knock like .5 off the heat and they'd be more usable.

SRMs are incredibly situational but well balanced.

Laser AMS is kind of hot, maybe take off like .15 /sec of heat.

Clan Ballistics:
Aside from the Gauss rifle being too heavy for what it does and the machine gun issue which is the same as the IS version, they all seem okay.

Clan Energy:
Flamer is still bad but everything else seems okay.

Clan missiles:
I rarely use ATMs so have no opinion there, but everything else seems okay.

Relatively new player at a little over 2 months, though I'd like to think I'm not bad at the game. I know this is a balance thread and not a game feature one, but I think maybe a new weapon system between machine guns and ACs in terms of tonnage would be nice.

i'm pretty certain we CANNOT change tonnages on weapons as that will severly mess with any current builds.

I think if we ever do get rit of the guass charge we should still be limted to only firing two per button press.

Edited by KursedVixen, 24 February 2021 - 04:30 PM.

[FupDup]

KursedVixen, on 24 February 2021 - 04:28 PM, said:

i'm pretty certain we CANNOT change tonnages on weapons as that will severly mess with any current builds.

Reducing tonnage or slots would technically not invalidate existing builds. You are allowed to drop under-tonnage. It would be weird though.

The BT universe already has many things with different tonnage/slot values, like Light ACs and Protomech ACs for lighter ballistics. Just push the timeline further and there's no need to make stuff lighter.

Edited by FupDup, 24 February 2021 - 04:31 PM.

[KursedVixen]

FupDup, on 24 February 2021 - 04:30 PM, said:

Reducing tonnage or slots would technically not invalidate existing builds. You are allowed to drop under-tonnage. It would be weird though.

The BT universe already has many things with different tonnage/slot values, like Light ACs and Protomech ACs for lighter ballistics. Just push the timeline further and there's no need to make stuff lighter.

I don't think protomech ac's are a valid thing next people will be asking for protomechs and then elementals....

[FupDup]

KursedVixen, on 24 February 2021 - 05:04 PM, said:

I don't think protomech ac's are a valid thing next people will be asking for protomechs and then elementals....

Protomech ACs are valid and there are some rare cases of regular mechs mounting them, such as the Summoner T. They are the Clan equivalent to Light ACs for all intents and purposes.

[SPNKRGrenth]

After having given the Gulag v2 balance suggestion posted by Navid on page 1 a full thorough read through, I have to agree it'd be a great starting point on resurrecting the fun and balance of the game, IF implemented in its entirety, not pick-and-choose piecemeal.

Do I fully agree with every single suggested change? No. But it even says in the link, farther tweaking and changes can always be made afterwards to smooth out issues. But as a whole, man oh man would it get me and my friends to come back and start spending cash on the game again.