615 replies to this topic

[Pixo]

KursedVixen, on 10 March 2021 - 10:35 AM, said:

small pulse, small lasers, mgs don't rely on boating just one weapon... switch to and ERPPC or a snub-nose.

Dont have the free slots, weapon slots or weight for situation only weapons that could replace the damage lost just because someone used the TT rules with ignoring that TT has melee.
And the ACs on torso cant be used on the facehugging lights.
Was forced to use ERPPCs and building around them.
Had to drop 2 medium lasers and exchange AC2s with LBX2s because of the added heat.
The range is not worth it for my playstyle.

[TheCallandor]

Could we have targeting computers actually show bonuses to speed, range, etc. in mech lab, nether the IS or Clan computers reflect any change when added to a mech.

[Void Angel]

Voice of Kerensky, on 18 February 2021 - 08:01 PM, said:

By the way, I am inclined to support my comrades who call for a more sober approach to Gauss rifles.
They have very little health. Their crit chance is more than high (especially the Clan GR and IS HGR), they die very quickly if there is no armor. But tell me WHY do they explode? What's the logic? The GR has already received its crit, it is not dangerous longer. The most powerful weapon has ALREADY been disabled, WHY need explode it, tearing off half of the mech along with the remnants of weaker weapons?

CHH Badkarma, on 18 February 2021 - 08:06 PM, said:

if I remember PGI's logic at the time, it was the stored energy in the capacitors being catastrophically(because of their own self implemented charge mechanic) released. Also, because reasons.

Didn't you guys ever play Battletech? The game lore "reason" for the system exploding when crit was that the energy flowing through the system to charge the capacitors would backlash into the 'mech's systems if the Gauss Rifle was destroyed. Essentially, handwavium jabberwocky techno-babble.

The actual reason was (and is) that Gauss ammo doesn't explode, so this was the way they maintained the balance standard for ammo-based weapons.

Edited by Void Angel, 12 March 2021 - 12:38 PM.

[KursedVixen]

Void Angel, on 12 March 2021 - 12:35 PM, said:

Didn't you guys ever play Battletech? The game lore "reason" for the system exploding when crit was that the energy flowing through the system to charge the capacitors would backlash into the 'mech's systems if the Gauss Rifle was destroyed. Essentially, handwavium jabberwocky techno-babble.

The actual reason was (and is) that Gauss ammo doesn't explode, so this was the way they maintained the balance standard for ammo-based weapons.

increasing clan guass health would be nice though it has the lowest health of all guass i think... but removing the guass exploding thing should not happen.

On a second note as made apparent by other posters here Lore or TT should not be followed for some reason...

edit: yes clan gauss has 5 health even less thant even the light guass. so upping the clan guass health to 10 might be nice.

Edited by KursedVixen, 12 March 2021 - 09:22 PM.

[OettingerRakete]

A big thank you to the Gulak!?!
Even, so I don't agree with every change listed, it's still a wonderful way to start!
Since all of us have different preferences of game play and skill levels, I
highly doubt that there will be a better solution in the foreseeable future! Thanks again for the energy and time invested into bringing change to the present weapon system and movement mechanics.

See u out there!

Oet

[MechTech Dragoon]

Personally, i just want armor/tonne to be evened out across weight classes and to have mechs rescaled, and have the mechs with **** hitboxes have survival buffs to their **** hitbox locations.

NSCAR is half map design and half fast mech meta.

Larger mechs are **** and have been for awhile.

Beyond that, mostly just agree with the gulag /shrug. Its layed out for you. Do that.

[Void Angel]

KursedVixen, on 12 March 2021 - 03:13 PM, said:

On a second note as made apparent by other posters here Lore or TT should not be followed for some reason...

There has been a longstanding problem with people's theorycrafting about the game regarding the flavor text and "game lore" for the original board game. Despite this being a different format; despite the longstanding tradition of literally every Mechwarrior game before it; despite the actual history if this game itself - there have been people who are convinced that just plugging the tabletop numbers in would make MWO perfectly balanced and all would be sweetness and light. There was even a stupid limerick...

Nobody has a problem with game lore; quite the opposite in some cases. But what you're seeing in this thread on game balance is a resistance to using one of the sidebars in a rulebook somewhere to claim that a game mechanic should be such and such a way - because "that's the way it's supposed to be!" The same goes for actual game rules. Some of these people want to implement random hit locations for all weapons, or "cones of fire," etc. Sane people, on the other hand, resist these notions. In short, a sidebar is not a suicide pact, and the rulebook for a table-top dice roller from the 80s is not a balancing guide for this game.

I haven't seen too many of the truly hardcore members of that group around recently - but their legacy lives on, and that's why people won't accept what they feel to be bad game design or balance decisions based on "the lore."

Edited by Void Angel, 14 March 2021 - 02:18 AM.

[KursedVixen]

Void Angel, on 13 March 2021 - 01:24 PM, said:

There has been a longstanding problem with people's theorycrafting about the game regarding the flavor text and "game lore" for the original board game. Despite this being a different format; despite the longstanding tradition of literally every Mechwarrior game before it; despite the actual history if this game itself - there have been people who are convinced that just plugging the tabletop numbers would make MWO perfectly balanced and all would be sweetness and light. There was even a stupid limerick...

Nobody has a problem with game lore; quite the opposite in some cases. But what you're seeing in this thread on game balance is a resistance to using one of the sidebars in a rulebook somewhere to claim that a game mechanic should be such and such a way - because "that's the way it's supposed to be!" The same goes for actual game rules. Some of these people want to implement random hit locations for all weapons, or "cones of fire," etc. Sane people, on the other hand, resist these notions. In short, a sidebar is not a suicide pact, and the rulebook for a table-top dice roller from the 80s is not a balancing guide for this game.

I haven't seen too many of the truly hardcore members of that group around recently - but their legacy lives on, and that's why people won't accept what they feel to be bad game design or balance decisions based on "the lore."

Well some sacrifices had to be made to translate a TT Game that takes hours to play into a fast paced FPS, but i'm sure some people disagree with PGI's balancing.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Void Angel, on 13 March 2021 - 01:24 PM, said:

There has been a longstanding problem with people's theorycrafting about the game regarding the flavor text and "game lore" for the original board game. Despite this being a different format; despite the longstanding tradition of literally every Mechwarrior game before it; despite the actual history if this game itself - there have been people who are convinced that just plugging the tabletop numbers in would make MWO perfectly balanced and all would be sweetness and light. There was even a stupid limerick...

Nobody has a problem with game lore; quite the opposite in some cases. But what you're seeing in this thread on game balance is a resistance to using one of the sidebars in a rulebook somewhere to claim that a game mechanic should be such and such a way - because "that's the way it's supposed to be!" The same goes for actual game rules. Some of these people want to implement random hit locations for all weapons, or "cones of fire," etc. Sane people, on the other hand, resist these notions. In short, a sidebar is not a suicide pact, and the rulebook for a table-top dice roller from the 80s is not a balancing guide for this game.

I haven't seen too many of the truly hardcore members of that group around recently - but their legacy lives on, and that's why people won't accept what they feel to be bad game design or balance decisions based on "the lore."

I have bin telling those TT purists they are nuts for years. I love TT Battletech and it's number's were a good place to start but you can't just shoe horn rules and numbers made for a dice based table top game in to a real time action based game and expected it to be balanced and work. That is just madness and they have no clue about game design but at the same time you can look to some of the lore stuff for balancing ideas. Just don't be super dogmatic about it

KursedVixen, on 10 March 2021 - 11:09 AM, said:

Srms and big ac's and heavy guass tend to dissuade that sort of thing, if you can hit them with it in the first place.

Ouch was that an AC20 better get out of here did that guy just dump 80 MRMs in to my legs they are almost opened now. Also SHOOT THE DAMN LEGS FIRST

Edited by SirSmokes, 14 March 2021 - 10:22 PM.

[imhoopjones]

These proposed changes look awful.

I was 100 percent ready to buy the Stryker pack if the first balance patch wasnt a completely tone deaf (aka ignoring the veteran players and taking advice from the severe minority of players) but alas the fears of PGI never listening to its players was realized yet again after all the warnings

Is it April 1st yet?

Why do yall ignore the swathe of information and changes requested from people who have been playing for years and years? I really want to know why you work against your player base so aggressively.

I cannot understand why so many people are ignored and the least requested changes are made without any care.

There was absolutely no need to buff AC2s and yet here we are. Gauss's problem wasnt the damage it was the incredible cooldown problem and yet here we are. IS ppcs had a lot of ways to be more useful but cooldown??? Who requested that?

Edited by imhoopjones, 15 March 2021 - 10:31 AM.

[KursedVixen]

they took some numbers from gulag and just screwed up everything else.

[Pixo]

The IS PPC stat they provided are wrong.
The cooldown was 4s not 4.5s.
Snub has 10 heat, not 9.5

So for 20% damage increase, IS non heavy PPCs got 50% cooldown increase.
A bad weapon made worse.
There was already not much reason to choose PPCs over LL.
But maybe poptarts will like the change to ERPPC.

C-ERPPCs got nerfed even more as it would not be possible to shoot 3 of them as it is now.

And the Snub change were the most stupid.
A weapon with optimal range of 270 should not be used in close rang brawl...
Could someone from PGI provide a use case for Snub-PPCs?
It was almost useless weapon before and now its completely useless.

[BlueSunWarrior]

Did you guys even read this thread? Get your heads out of your butts or BOTH of your games will be dead. I'm so done with this game. I'm uninstalling tonight. Have fun killing your game.

[The Duke of Dirty]

Hello,

I was a bit disappointed to see that ATMs were not addressed. Some new chassis are making deployment of ATM12*3 a possibility even on a medium mech like a Vapor Eagle. In the optimal range, this medium mech has a 108 damage alpha strike that it can do twice back to back. This will 1 shot or 2 shot most mediums and heavies in the game from the front. This does not feel like a reasonable place for a medium mech to be.

[StumbleBee]

What was the point of this thread, if Chris was just going to do what he wanted?

[OettingerRakete]

DEAR PGI,

I'm usually not one to complain on a open scale like that.
As somewhat of a casual player with i hope not many enemy's in the community, i would like to inform you, that i am speechless!

The poor players of the "gulag" have wasted countless hours on there proposal for the weapon fix and you managed to shift the ppc snipe completely to the Is side (Yes i do realize that the quirks have not been touged) . Have you tested a BJ3 with a TC 4or 5 with 2erPPC? that's around 3.4 -3.5km/s of projectile speed. Back in my day in Quake3 Arena we would have called that a Rail-gun. Almost instant hit! The same mech with 2 Hppc is also completely absurd. The Awesome and Panta are just great (cynicism).

I had high hope for their (gulag) proposal. Since u asked the community i was thinking that this might have been to get the ideas from people who actually play and enjoy this game. I am starting to question the ones in charge.
Saying all of this with as much respect as my current frustration/state of mind allows!

edited
First attempt on the gauss might be okisch, except light gauss !
I have not tested the ACs yet.
The Post was specific for the problem of PPC quirks.

A frustrated Oet

PS: the 3er PPC Vapor does still work with a few small changes but the velocity advantage of the IS is just ridicules.

Edited by OettingerRakete, 16 March 2021 - 03:04 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

OettingerRakete, on 16 March 2021 - 12:31 PM, said:

DEAR PGI,

I'm usually not one to complain on a open scale like that.
As somewhat of a casual player with i hope not many enemy's in the community, i would like to inform you, that i am speechless!

The poor players of the "gulag" have wasted countless hours on there proposal for the weapon fix and you managed to
shift the ppc snipe completely to the Is side. Have you tested a BJ3 with a TC 4or 5 with 2erPPC? that's around 3.4 -3.5km/s of projectile speed. Back in my day in Quake3 Arena we would have called that a Rail-gun. Almost instant hit! The same mech with 2 Hppc is also completely absurd. The Awesome and Panta are just great . The only question left is, if you plan on IS vs IS events only.

I had high hope for their (gulag) proposal. Since u asked the community i was thinking that this might have been to get the ideas from people who actually play and enjoy this game. I am starting to question the ones in charge.
Saying all of this with as much respect as my current frustration/state of mind allows!

A frustrated Oet

PS: the 3er PPC Vapor does still works with a few small changes but the velocity advantage of the IS is just ridicules.

This is a buff not a nerf too PPC have to try guass more on none quirked mechs for them

Edited by SirSmokes, 16 March 2021 - 12:35 PM.

[Figaro Jibaro]

SMH PGI.

After months and months of promising community-driven changes it is sad to see what most already suspected: PGI will make changes based on their “extensive knowledge” of game dynamics, regardless of community input, because they are game developers and we are not. It must be hard to shake that mentality. I will say many will feel betrayed by these changes because most came completely out of left field; Please show me the threads that requested these? If anything, the vast majority of the people wanted unused/unpopular weapons to become more relevant e.g. light gauss, light ppc, snubnose ppc, small/micro pulse lasers. Blanket changes across entire weapon classes tend to screw more things than it fixes; tweak what needs fixing and leave the rest alone!

I don’t suspect these changes are what Daeron gathered from the community so I’m assuming the proposed community changes were brought up to upper management where they were immediately shot down to be replaced by their own ideas. We are right back where we were a year or so ago.

Having said that, however, it would not be fair to critique these changes without testing them out for myself so I will do just that but as someone who has many hours in this game, it’s not looking promising.



**Edit below:

My take on the changes after testing them out.
AC 2; OP; Too accurate at crazy distances, hardly miss since less lead on shots

AC 20; OP; Will be much easier to leg lights. Prob less people using lights in future

AC 10; Acceptable

AC 5; Acceptable;

Heavy Gauss; Sure

Light Gauss; Horrible Change; Remove cooldown nerf then will be ok. Keep other changes

Gauss; Meh; Prefer old parameters but now meh

MRM; Good Change

Heavy PPC; Good Change

IS ER PPC; Meh; Prefer old parameters

Snub PPC; Horrible Change; Remove cooldown and heat nerf then will be ok. Keep other changes

Clan ER PPC; Meh; Prefer old parameters

Light PPC; Horrible Change; Remove cooldown and heat nerf then will be ok. Keep other changes

IS PPC; Meh; Prefer old parameters

MASC; Bad Change; Revert turn rate to original. Sluggish mech are even more sluggish

Edited by Figaro Jibaro, 16 March 2021 - 02:17 PM.

[Osa PL]

I just had to post this, because I'm baffled (maybe even a little angry) how community feedback resulted in these changes actually shipping.
Some of the march patch changes are really bizarre, borderline out of touch how good/bad some systems really are.
After playing some games with them, I have a general understanding that:
The weaker, less used system got nerfed, and the ones being used are almost the same, or just slightly better?

After playing over 1k hours, I had to make my first post. These changes are ridiculous, bad, and outright ignoring all the community feedback you wanted from us.

PPC/Gauss changes:
I think the intent is good, make PPC and Gauss more sniper-like weapons, and those velocity changes are great, but the other ones are just HORRIBLE.

PPC, the increase from 9.5 to 11 is an 20% increase in heat, when ER PPC only got a small, not even 10%, bump? Excuse me? and whats worse is...

ER PPC is still much better choice than regular PPC, and with that added dmg even more now.

Heavy PPC is now much hotter, and now, even worse against ER PPC.

Light PPC are now a joke, almost as bad as Light gauss.

Snub nose PPC is now even worse (why nerf one of the worst weapons in game?!), give it back its normal cooldown, increase range slightly or make them lighter, anything to make it usable.

Clan ER PPC is now even better (ONLY 1 point more heat (8% more) and 2 secs cooldown for that additional damage + also additional splash dmg, what?!).

^{but the worst offender is...}
Light Gauss IS NOW ACTUALLY TRASH. No, really, its not even usable, like it was before, its completely a waste of tonnage, even on mechs that have general Gauss quirks and are good Gauss carriers (like Grid Iron). It lost the only upside it had, great cooldown, and with it its, average at most, dps. It lost 50% of its dps for a measly 3 point dmg boost.
Thats 67% of the original dps.
Yes, you heard that right, Light Gauss, the laughing stock of the IS weapons has now 2/3rd of the before patch dps.
And if you're gonna tell me **** like "Its now a better sniper weapon like other gausses", you can fit a normal Gauss instead of two light ones, get comparably same dps, only 5 points smaller alpha, 9 more tons, and you have one less explosion hazard on board. Bump the damage up more or decrease the cooldown. Hell, if you're a carrier that can only fit a single light one, just take a ER PPC and some heat sinks, and you'll be much better with it.

MRM changes:
Great idea to give them some more slack when used in environments with lots of ams, actually good buff, really. Can now be used also in mid range scenarios, where a single Corsair could wreck havoc earlier.

MASC changes:
These ones I am not so sure about. I do like the turning boost nerf over the whole family, to make the twisting with it less effective, but the whole buff of the bar usage and refill, I dont think as a good idea.
I didnt think MASC actually need those changes, its already a great equip, and if your chassis has access to it, you are crazy to not put it on your mech. This buff only makes the ones with MASC even more desirable than they already were.

PGI, if your long term players rush to forums to write their first post after years of playing, and its about complaining, you should know you're actually doing really bad changes.

P.S. So we're back to poptarting meta? Great...

Edited by Osa PL, 16 March 2021 - 02:54 PM.

[Drunk Canuck]

The Duke of Dirty, on 16 March 2021 - 06:30 AM, said:

Hello,

I was a bit disappointed to see that ATMs were not addressed. Some new chassis are making deployment of ATM12*3 a possibility even on a medium mech like a Vapor Eagle. In the optimal range, this medium mech has a 108 damage alpha strike that it can do twice back to back. This will 1 shot or 2 shot most mediums and heavies in the game from the front. This does not feel like a reasonable place for a medium mech to be.

Who cares? ATM's are spray and pray and the most easily countered weapon system in the game. Git gud and run AMS like everyone else.