220 replies to this topic

[Clay Endfield]

hoofdiver, on 23 February 2021 - 02:30 AM, said:

Be that as it may, it's still something that a LOT of people are going to look at and think "oh that's racist, this game is racist" like there are some Serious Implications here. High ranking klansmen call themselves Grand Dragon, go around wearing all red...

like, not everyone comes into this game with extensive knowledge of the background and lore - this is the perfect opportunity to move away from ANY implications, and any ire it might draw.

How about: Great Dragon? just spitballing here?

How about instead of adopting hypocrisy and assuming a racist association purely on the basis of phonetic identity, we just call it the "Grand Dragon" and refuse to let a bunch of snowflakes censor creative liberties, while simultaneously refusing to let a regionalized group of fundamentalist bigots claim exclusive ownership of a name? Just counter-spitballing here.

Edited by Clay Endfield, 23 February 2021 - 06:37 PM.

[Voice of Kerensky]

FupDup, on 20 February 2021 - 04:26 PM, said:

I hope not. The Clans already have plenty of assault Battlemechs and the Stoned Rhino is just gonna be a huge LRM-magnet.

Urbie IIC or bust.

The Inner Sphere has 5 one hundred tons assaults:
Annihilator, Atlas, Fafnir, King Crab, Marauder 2. Three of them have an ECM variant.
Clans have 2 one hundred tons assaults:
Dire Wolf, Kodiak. None of them have an ECM.

Am I missing something in this game?

[FupDup]

Voice of Kerensky, on 24 February 2021 - 01:09 AM, said:

The Inner Sphere has 5 one hundred tons assaults:
Annihilator, Atlas, Fafnir, King Crab, Marauder 2. Three of them have an ECM variant.
Clans have 2 one hundred tons assaults:
Dire Wolf, Kodiak. None of them have an ECM.

Am I missing something in this game?

I wasn't talking about 100-tonners specifically, I was talking the whole class. They have 6 Battlemechs and 5 Omnismechs, compared to most other classes where the Omnis are more numerous.

[Scout Derek]

hoofdiver, on 23 February 2021 - 02:30 AM, said:

Be that as it may, it's still something that a LOT of people are going to look at and think "oh that's racist, this game is racist" like there are some Serious Implications here. High ranking klansmen call themselves Grand Dragon, go around wearing all red...

like, not everyone comes into this game with extensive knowledge of the background and lore - this is the perfect opportunity to move away from ANY implications, and any ire it might draw.

How about: Great Dragon? just spitballing here?

The fact that you even brought it up implies the issue you still believe the larger population even acknowledges facts such as those is very amusing. Alot here like battletech/mechwarrior for what it is, and not because it appropriates stuff to that type of extreme.

This type of garbage arguments has been happening for YEARS. YEARS! And it's getting pretty annoying, very, VERY, annoying.

[Gas Guzzler]

hoofdiver, on 23 February 2021 - 02:00 AM, said:

Are you really going to call this thing "Grand Dragon"?? like, that klan title?

Are you ******* kidding me?

[My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ]

hoofdiver, on 23 February 2021 - 02:30 AM, said:

Be that as it may, it's still something that a LOT of people are going to look at and think "oh that's racist, this game is racist" like there are some Serious Implications here. High ranking klansmen call themselves Grand Dragon, go around wearing all red...

You know I've never once looked at a Merkava and thought "oh those poor Palestinians", or looked at the Hauptmann and thought "the {Godwin's Law} were bad people", or looked at a Zhukov and thought "the Soviets did a lot bad stuff".

Why would I look at the Grand Dragon and think of the KKK?

[Gas Guzzler]

Voice of Kerensky, on 24 February 2021 - 01:09 AM, said:

The Inner Sphere has 5 one hundred tons assaults:
Annihilator, Atlas, Fafnir, King Crab, Marauder 2. Three of them have an ECM variant.
Clans have 2 one hundred tons assaults:
Dire Wolf, Kodiak. None of them have an ECM.

Am I missing something in this game?

DWF-C is most likely coming.


As far as IS assaults with ECM:
Atlas
Fafnir
Marauder II
Night star
Cyclops
Stalker
Hatamoto Chi

Clan Assaults with ECM
Blood Asp
Marauder IIC


So yeah in any case I agree, need more Clan assaults with ECM. Stone Rhino doesn’t fit that bill though, and will just be a Clan Marauder II in terms of hit boxes and won’t even get structure quirks so let that sink in.

DWF-C
Kingfisher-F (swap HAG30 for Gauss if we don’t want to add HAGs)(CT ECM)
Kingfisher-X (Imp Hvy MLs to regular Hvy MLs, Art V to Art IV)(RT ECM)
Turkina-X (needs some substitutions)
Gargoyle Conal
Highlander IIC-3
Deimos

Would all add ECM assaults.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 24 February 2021 - 11:08 AM.

[Agent Super Chicken]

The whole Grand Dragon thing should be fine as long as it's not released on April 20th, the birthday of the world's most famous bad person, or something. Wouldn't that be crazy?!
Imagine if people who were both fans of a hate group from this continent and a hate group from Europe got Grand Dragon + April 20th - that would be bad press, right?
... oh.

Edited by Agent Super Chicken, 24 February 2021 - 09:53 AM.

[Alreech]

Voice of Kerensky, on 24 February 2021 - 01:09 AM, said:

The Inner Sphere has 5 one hundred tons assaults:
Annihilator, Atlas, Fafnir, King Crab, Marauder 2. Three of them have an ECM variant.
Clans have 2 one hundred tons assaults:
Dire Wolf, Kodiak. None of them have an ECM.

Am I missing something in this game?

Yes, the Clans need an Atlas IIC with ECM.

Monke-, on 24 February 2021 - 08:18 AM, said:

You know I've never once looked at a Merkava and thought "oh those poor Palestinians", or looked at the Hauptmann and thought "the {Godwin's Law} were bad people", or looked at a Zhukov and thought "the Soviets did a lot bad stuff".

Why would I look at the Grand Dragon and think of the KKK?

Maybe he/she/it is fresh graduated from College.
If you have a new hammer, each problem starts to looking a lot like an outstanding nail...

[Alreech]

Agent Super Chicken, on 24 February 2021 - 09:52 AM, said:

The whole Grand Dragon thing should be fine as long as it's not released on April 20th, the birthday of the world's most famous bad person, or something. Wouldn't that be crazy?!
Imagine if people who were both fans of a hate group from this continent and a hate group from Europe got Grand Dragon + April 20th - that would be bad press, right?
... oh.

Well, a good scandal is the best way to promote a product...

So I suggest as next mechs:
Huron Warrior (cultural appropriation)
Crusader (christian extremism)
Guillotine (political violence)
Behemoth (fat shaming)
....

Edited by Alreech, 24 February 2021 - 10:24 AM.

[Heavy Money]

Agent Super Chicken, on 24 February 2021 - 09:52 AM, said:

The whole Grand Dragon thing should be fine as long as it's not released on April 20th, the birthday of the world's most famous bad person, or something. Wouldn't that be crazy?!
Imagine if people who were both fans of a hate group from this continent and a hate group from Europe got Grand Dragon + April 20th - that would be bad press, right?
... oh.

You know, the SS's symbol was 2 Thunderbolts...the pack contains 2 Thunderbolts!

Edited by Heavy Money, 24 February 2021 - 12:06 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Alreech, on 24 February 2021 - 10:20 AM, said:

Yes, the Clans need an Atlas IIC with ECM.

They need a Kingfisher F/X modified appropriately with ECM in the CT/RT respectively.
They need a Turkina X modified appropriately
DWF-C Obviously

[Arkhangel]

Unlucky Charms! They're tragically malicious!

[Agyar30]

Ok I preordered the pack to show my support for the effort to improve the game. I did my part. The pack is reasonable priced i appriciate that. So it is fair and well.

Now let's hope for those miracle grand dragon quirks to make that one interesting aswell.

By the way, a quirk preview would be also nice if you introduce mechs like these. In the current state of the game a simple hardpoint overview won't cut it anymore. Atleast show us some notes if it is for ppcs or large pulses or just general energy quirks and nothing super special. Maybe not the exact values just some hints, so we can make a more educated decision.

It is nice to know what you are buying. Is mechs are really quirk dependant toys nowdays so we will mostly gamble when it comes to future IS mech packs without knowing anything about their quirks. Even a boring clan mech can be interesting with a bold quirk like the large pulse rifleman 2c, so it can be a game changer for any mech.

Since i am not a fan of gambling on packs please consider something from the above!

Edited by Agyar30, 24 February 2021 - 01:03 PM.

[Heavy Money]

Agyar30, on 24 February 2021 - 01:02 PM, said:

Ok I preordered the pack to show my support for the effort to improve the game. I did my part. The pack is reasonable priced i appriciate that. So it is fair and well.

Now let's hope for those miracle grand dragon quirks to make that one interesting aswell.

By the way, a quirk preview would be also nice if you introduce mechs like these. In the current state of the game a simple hardpoint overview won't cut it anymore. Atleast show us some notes if it is for ppcs or large pulses or just general energy quirks and nothing super special. Maybe not the exact values just some hints, so we can make a more educated decision.

It is nice to know what you are buying. Is mechs are really quirk dependant toys nowdays so we will mostly gamble when it comes to future IS mech packs without knowing anything about their quirks. Even a boring clan mech can be interesting with a bold quirk like the large pulse rifleman 2c, so it can be a game changer for any mech.

Since i am not a fan of gambling on packs please consider something from the above!

Heck, preview the Quirks just so people don't freak out and declare the whole thing dead on arrival.
Of course, actual discussion with the community is good too. There's plenty of time for feedback and adjusting the quirks. Nobody wants pay to win, but also nobody will complain if its a A rated mech instead of a C. There's already a scale of power of mechs in the game, might as well have it be decently near the top.

[FupDup]

Heavy Money, on 24 February 2021 - 01:26 PM, said:

Heck, preview the Quirks just so people don't freak out and declare the whole thing dead on arrival.

PGI always posts quirk previews of new mechs like a week or two before release. The pre-order bonus window for this pack also gives you an entire month after the mechs drop in-game.

The quirks can be somewhat approximated by looking at the other variants, at least for the Dragon since those are very consistent. The Thud on the other hand might be a wild card in the quirks department because of MASC, ECM, and JJs subtracting from its total "quirk budget."

[Agyar30]

FupDup, on 24 February 2021 - 01:30 PM, said:

PGI always posts quirk previews of new mechs like a week or two before release. The pre-order bonus window for this pack also gives you an entire month after the mechs drop in-game.

The quirks can be somewhat approximated by looking at the other variants, at least for the Dragon since those are very consistent. The Thud on the other hand might be a wild card in the quirks department because of MASC, ECM, and JJs subtracting from its total "quirk budget."

I know we have a month when we know everything, but first impression matters. We are discussing and guessing something what we should know. It is not a huge thing to ask, just show us the direction where the actual mech is going. Now we have a 4 energy dragon, that is like no information at all. We were told we get interesting mechs but i see nothing interesting about the dragon at this point so my first impression about that particular mach is bad. Which is not a good thing if the company wants to sell on the long run. I do not see a reason why not to reveal the quirks since they are more important than the hardpoints (on a subpar chassis it is especially true).

Yes we can guess from other dragon quirks but i see nothing there what can make this mech interesting, those usual dragon quirks can make this one from unplayable to bad. Which means it needs something different in my opinion, but it is a secret so i will stay with the bad option at this point. PGI can easily change that if they willing to showcase something about the quirks it is all i say. It is good for us and eventually good for them because a good first impression sells. That is for sure.

[Heavy Money]

If they don't show the quirks, it would have been better if they hadn't revealed the hardpoints yet either.
The point is to not give the cynics something to whine about.

[KelseyJr]

hoofdiver, on 23 February 2021 - 02:30 AM, said:

Be that as it may, it's still something that a LOT of people are going to look at and think "oh that's racist, this game is racist" like there are some Serious Implications here. High ranking klansmen call themselves Grand Dragon, go around wearing all red...

like, not everyone comes into this game with extensive knowledge of the background and lore - this is the perfect opportunity to move away from ANY implications, and any ire it might draw.

How about: Great Dragon? just spitballing here?

They're really not going to unless they're trying to be offended in which case even if you change the name they'll just point to the "dark past" of Battletech when it had mechs they think were named after KKK officials.

i still remember being lectured because Wolfs Dragoons have a Zeta Battalion and that was the name apparently of some SA death squad. For all I know they just made it up but they were very angry about it....

[Agyar30]

Heavy Money, on 24 February 2021 - 02:31 PM, said:

If they don't show the quirks, it would have been better if they hadn't revealed the hardpoints yet either.
The point is to not give the cynics something to whine about.

Even that is better. However if we get interesting mechs at the end (i have not given up on the dragon yet) i think the smart thing for PGI is to show why is the actual new mech is interesting. It doesn't need to be very good, but if it is interesting it needs to be unique in a way. Show me why is it unique when it is up for sale. It can be a different reason for every new mech, for the dragon it must be quirks or it needs a hidden 3rd leg to be unique.