801 replies to this topic

[Heavy Money]

I'll note that nobody (so far) is giving PGI any grief about having to delay the spawn fixes or AMS score changes. I'm not upset that these things arn't in the patch simply because you bothered to spend a paragraph talking about why.

[Katamori]

Super glad that when people with experience tell PGI "PPCs need buffs they are underpowered for their heat/slots/tonnage" we get a nerf to them instead. I only see like 1 or 2 people per team with ERPPCs at all and a lot of the time they run them with other weapons as backup . Yet missile boats will still go brr and nascar will still do it's thing. I only even used ERPPCs to stay out of LRM range because 90% of matches you move forward to hit someone and get hit by 4 lrm boats packing 4 lrm15s or 20s each. Guess someone's plan is to move towards only 2 or 3 viable build types. I clearly made a huge mistake buying a pack recently.

Edited by Katamori, 15 March 2021 - 08:28 PM.

[not the Droids your looking for]

What the Hell are you guys Smoking?
light gauss and light ppc were both under performing and almost never used
now they are literally 1/2 as good WTF?

[ccrider]

bad builds bob, on 15 March 2021 - 06:21 PM, said:

hopefully it helps that 0.7 KDR

it most certainly will not but hopefully my reply will help you to stop hiding behind alts when replying to posts. Thanks for wishing me well, though!

[LordLosh]

11 pages of suggestions, frustrations and hate. I see nothing has changed and the more they attempt to do any changes the more they stay the same. Crazy. I haven't played in a very long time. shame I vested so much time and money into this to see it still be a garbage dumpster fire.
The lighting changes look good. hiring a map editor that plays the game is awesome. I don't want changes to maps as much as I want new maps. maybe give him the freedom to make one or alter one of the clan wars maps?
Trail mechs look great way they should be.
not sure I ever read any patch notes that had weapon nerfs in them have anything positive to say so meh. I would look at the 11 pages I just did and see a theme maybe? but the age old argument of just the few that post here don't make up the majority of players... What is the player count these days cause that might not be so true anymore lol...

[ScrapIron Prime]

Okay, I’ll give the PPC changes a pass, but how in the freaking HECK does doubling the light gauss cool down make it “better compete in this space”? You just dropped its DPS to lower than all other ballistic weapons, from a 3.08 to a 2.1.

What The Ferro-fibrous !?

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 15 March 2021 - 08:44 PM.

[Heavy Money]

Katamori, on 15 March 2021 - 08:23 PM, said:

Super glad that when people with experience tell PGI "PPCs need buffs they are underpowered for their heat/slots/tonnage" we get a nerf to them instead. I only see like 1 or 2 people per team with ERPPCs at all and a lot of the time they run them with other weapons as backup . Yet missile boats will still go brr and nascar will still do it's thing. I only even used ERPPCs to stay out of LRM range because 90% of matches you move forward to hit someone and get hit by 4 lrm boats packing 4 lrm15s or 20s each. Guess someone's plan is to move towards only 2 or 3 viable build types. I clearly made a huge mistake buying a pack recently.

This is because you're in t5. The trend reverses as you get better. LRMs become largely irrelevant, and ERPPCs become very common. There are many solutions to LRMs that can be done by an individual player or group.

Also, as annoying as Nascar is, it shouldn't be compared to LRMs or ERPPCs. Nascar is a group default tactic caused by a combination of eagerness and low teamwork and a sort of prisoners dilemma where if you aren't at the front you are dying at the back, which incentivizes everyone to nascar more. The others are weapons.

[Katamori]

LordLosh, on 15 March 2021 - 08:34 PM, said:

11 pages of suggestions, frustrations and hate. I see nothing has changed and the more they attempt to do any changes the more they stay the same. Crazy. I haven't played in a very long time. shame I vested so much time and money into this to see it still be a garbage dumpster fire.
The lighting changes look good. hiring a map editor that plays the game is awesome. I don't want changes to maps as much as I want new maps. maybe give him the freedom to make one or alter one of the clan wars maps?
Trail mechs look great way they should be.
not sure I ever read any patch notes that had weapon nerfs in them have anything positive to say so meh. I would look at the 11 pages I just did and see a theme maybe? but the age old argument of just the few that post here don't make up the majority of players... What is the player count these days cause that might not be so true anymore lol...

Who knows but the little I do know is that steam doesn't have many people playing it (it's like 1000ish).

Heavy Money, on 15 March 2021 - 08:39 PM, said:

This is because you're in t5. The trend reverses as you get better. LRMs become largely irrelevant, and ERPPCs become very common. There are many solutions to LRMs that can be done by an individual player or group.

Also, as annoying as Nascar is, it shouldn't be compared to LRMs or ERPPCs. Nascar is a group default tactic caused by a combination of eagerness and low teamwork and a sort of prisoners dilemma where if you aren't at the front you are dying at the back, which incentivizes everyone to nascar more. The others are weapons.

Yeah except according to PGI tier does nothing. Like exactly 0. No different MM nothing. Which is likely why I see almost exclusively tier 3+ players in every game.
EDIT:I'm now seeing conflicting info about the tiers from PGI so who knows.

Edited by Katamori, 15 March 2021 - 08:58 PM.

[aardappelianen]

So, disgusting nerfs to non boat lppc carriers and a buff to fleas, it has plenty of mobility all it needs is the forwards/backwards jerky movement combined with the dank hitreg in this game, for any other masc carrier this is a straight nerf

I really hoped to see lppc min ranges removed, thats all it needed, because if you are in a light mech with lppcs being chased by another light or fast medium you couldn't brawl anymore, a slight cooldown reduction would've been welcome but not necessary and I'm sure thats everything the community ever asked for regarding lppcs.

These are just nerfs to lights and mediums wit ppcs and or gaus because they couldn't afford any screwups to begin with.
Now they have to deal with longer cooldowns while heavier mechs get increased instant component deletion potential against them.

The weirdest thing is you would nerf masc in such a way that it benefits the most problematic mech to carry one, what the hell are are you even thinking

[The6thMessenger]

Heavy Money, on 15 March 2021 - 08:14 PM, said:

I'll note that nobody (so far) is giving PGI any grief about having to delay the spawn fixes or AMS score changes. I'm not upset that these things arn't in the patch simply because you bothered to spend a paragraph talking about why.

Dude.

Screw the AMS scores and the Spawn Fixes.

These balance changes directly affect the gameplay.

[Kurvi]

Just came here to say thank for this patch.

I was contemplating diving in again, trying to play for the monthly free mech. Now I can safely ignore the game for another year.

[SoulRcannon]

Ok, where to begin here. Firstly, why ask the community for feedback at all, get many of us to spend copious amounts of time considering what could make the majority of players happier playing the game, then have the person implementing this "balance" to just... completely ignore all of that? If you're going to do that, act in bad faith like that, what must we be for engaging with you? Who are we for you to reciprocate this way to us engaging with you? Justifiably angry at the implication, at the very least. I'm pretty sure I'm sugar-coating this...

Now that's out of the way I've settled into indifferent acceptance. Make lemons with lemonade, and sandwiches with this pile of patch, featuring interesting changes. This is such a misinterpretation of community feedback and the people or groups that provided it, but let's appreciate what's nice (isolating it from absolutely everything else contextually) about what's coming here; behold a short list.

Thanks for the lighting changes on Hibernal and Caustic Valley. Nice to hear someone is coming to the team to implement map changes, look forward to their input. For the PPCs, the velocity increases on non ER-PPCs might be interesting? The increased health on Gauss Rifles is good (C-Gauss needs it too). Light Gauss damage (by itself) was cool. Non AC-2 velocity increases on AC's are decent, but backwards; AC20's needed the largest increases. Cheers for the MRM missile health increases. The End.

So what I saw from the community was a suggestion to carve niches from unused weapon systems like IS non-ER PPCs or Light Gauss, yet what we see are a set of broad homogenous changes. Otherwise, nerfs all round, or arbitrary improvements to isolated values that practically no-one asked for. How dull. MASC is presented like it's buffed, its duration is doubled but gauge refill is also doubled, and it's potential to improve agility is trashed on. Pretty much everything else looks more or less the same, changes that move the goal-posts just to move them. And from what I gather these (C) mech loadouts aren't reflective of the input received to improve them.

All in all, how horrendously disappointing. Oh well.

Edited by SoulRcannon, 15 March 2021 - 09:09 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

You had a chance to make the LPPC and LGauss better here.

Applying symmetrical changes to everything whiffed on that. Seriously, Light Gauss are inherently inferior to everything else on the field in their range as it is for the tonnage. And they still are.

[uwuziel]

Good and the bad:

Bad:
why did you nerf gauss and ppc cooldowns? Why did you nerf LIGHT gauss and ppc cooldowns? Light weapons are completley f*cked. Small pulse lasers have more dps than light weapons now.
Snubs are too hot now to be used in brawling. Having less of a cooldown then the others is nice but you'll end up burning yourself if you stay in a fight for more than a few seconds. Also i saw so many people want the removal of the min. range, at the cost of damaging the weapon itself. Is that coming in pass 2? Or is that completley thrown out?
MASC was fine how it was. Maybe a buff to how fast the bar fills, but otherwise it was fine. It took a lot of tonnage and slots, usually going on Clan mechs with limited space or lighter mechs with little tonnage to spare.

Its unclear where you decided to make these changes. Transperency would be appreciated.

Meh-Good:
The lighting fixes on Hibernal and Caustic are very welcome! Dont have to turn on heat vision just to see things now.Its also nice seeing trial mechs with actually viable builds!
Autocannon velo buffs are nice. The 20 was dearly in need of one, and it makes them all a bit more predictable when firing at someone from further away.
AND THANK GOD YOU BUFFED THE MRM10 SPREAD! Not even joking. Its nice to see that lower teir fit more in-line with other missile types!
Back to gauss, im glad to see health buffs. It felt dumb having my entire side torso in my Fafnir be blasted off as soon as I lost armor because one nerd in the back with a large laser crit me. Although again, I previously saw some feedback asking to change how they operated in regards to holding charge, so again, what made you decide to go this route?

Overall:
It just feels like a lot of these changes came out of left field. Don't get me wrong, their not all bad. Its just...theres a lot of bad
Personally it feels like this recent push of "intel gathering" and "town halls" was just publicity stuff to get more people interacting with the game and the site. Again again, not everything is all bad. You listened when we called some broken bolt ons, lighting, intro menu volume, but there is SO MUCH MORE we have asked for, and some of the stuff has been outright ignored. We wanted ppc BUFFS and you nerfed them specifically because of Vapor Eagle. We wanted Light weapon BUFFS and they got NERFED! I never even seen anyone complain about masc and they're nerfed now too? This isnt you guys "missing" something or not hearing us at all. Its being SELECTIVE about what you want to hear from us. And while that in itself is fine, we need TRANSPARENCY with it. You can't be selective AND be quiet. THIS is your core issue, and why everyone is upset.

[Magik Jack]

When was ppc/guass a real threat? 2015? 2016? These changes feel like PGI thinks we are still living in that era.

[Voice of Kerensky]

Sare204, on 15 March 2021 - 03:45 PM, said:

I have to reserve judgement on these patch notes until I actually play the changes.
(seriously, how can you all complain before you even know how the changes feel? I love this game and the Franchise but the sheer amount of crankiness and salt from this community is a pretty sad thing to see.)
-The one concern I have is the L-PPC cooldown is higher then standard PPC(Typo?) I admit, I am not sure of the logic. (Though it may be to nerf LPPC boats with the damage buff.)
-I am extremely happy to see Gauss getting some love. The cooldown increases do seem... more significant then I was expecting. maybe introduce a velocity buff as well? (I do think Gauss should be high damage, long cooldown, no charge, but that's just me)
-MASC changes seem pretty alright to me. it seems that it rewards active MASC play.(How is longer MASC burn time bad? even if you cant turn as quickly)
-Final Note: I think this community needs to take a chill pill, step back, and realize that active development has started again, which is fantastic.
PGI has massively improved their correspondence with their community, which is fantastic.
and I wish there was more appreciation given to them, when they could have dropped game development entirely.
Let the past be the past, and look forward to the fact that they did not have to consult the community, but they chose to.

What??? What nonsense ?!

[Thilas]

In the middle of trying to sell the Stryker pack you introduce a patch that hits both mechs. It nerfs MASC (TDR-10SE), and PPCs (DRG-1G).

I'm not even mad, that's amazing.

I legitimately don't understand the thought process on Snubs, LPPCs, and LGRs, and personally I think it's hilarious that the HGR now has the fastest cooldown of all Gauss weapons.

New trials look (mostly) decent and I do appreciate the changes to Caustic and Hibernal.

Edited by Thilas, 15 March 2021 - 09:31 PM.

[Punished Venom Prawn]

Yikes

Edited by Punished Venom Prawn, 15 March 2021 - 09:42 PM.

[Gilgamecc]

GweNTLeR, on 15 March 2021 - 12:30 PM, said:

I just realized LGR now have 37.5% more damage per ammo tonn due to ammo count staying the same.
Considering it had pretty high value already, it is now enough to have 1.5 ton per LGR? or even 1 ton?
Maybe (and I say MAYBE) it is not really THAT nerfed? Or even boosted?
The effective DPS of LGR was limited by charge mechanic previously, so now being limited by cooldown instead is not really that much of a deal?

it takes like a third of a second to charge gauss

[Clay Endfield]

You know, I won't. I won't repeat what everyone else has already said about the gauss and PPC changes; lord I won't point out the sheer inanity of what you decided to do with Snub PPCs, Light PPCs, and LGR; I won't add my voice to the ever growing choir of furious and bewildered MWO community members all screaming, "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU PEOPLE THINKING"...

...I won't contribute to that, despite every braincell at my disposal begging me to...

Instead, I just have to ask: "Why did you even bother to ask the community for feedback, when you were just going to ignore us all anyway?"

Have fun with the damage control. I'm sure locking this thread and deleting all the comments will fix your game.

Edited by Clay Endfield, 15 March 2021 - 09:49 PM.