801 replies to this topic

[Agent Super Chicken]

So I figured I'd try it out before commenting. Maybe you guys had a good idea going and I should find out through experimentation, or something...
I've tried it.
This gauss situation is bad. Like really, really bad.
You have PPC poptarts who seal club you before the gauss can charge up, only now they hit harder than they used to. You have brawlers who seal club you before the gauss can reload.
People are now incentivized to rotate faster and harder to try to close, and I'm getting left behind even more than usual. Which is saying something.
The quality of my experience here is an all time low, guys.
Who asked for this particular change? What was the reason for this?
Under what set of circumstances was it envisioned that it would be fair, engaging gameplay, and it would go well?
Can you explain to us why this is happening?
I understand that you told us it would be an iterative process, and you were going to try some things out.
But could you please just explain what someone was thinking with this? I really want to know. And with the time I'm having playing your game, and giving it "a fair chance," I think we deserve to know who decided this and what the intent was.
Will you explain this?

Edited by Agent Super Chicken, 16 March 2021 - 05:23 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Agent Super Chicken, on 16 March 2021 - 05:09 PM, said:

So I figured I'd try it out before commenting. I've tried it.
This gauss situation is bad. Like really really bad.
You have poptarts who seal club you before the gauss can charge up. You have brawlers who seal club you before the gauss can reload.
People are now incentivized to rotate faster and harder to try to close, and I'm getting left behind even more than usual. Which is saying something.
The quality of my experience here is an all time low, guys.
Who asked for this particular change? What was the reason for this?
Under what set of circumstances was it envisioned that it would be fair, engaging gameplay, and it would go well?

Need to mess around with the gauss changes more before I make up my mind

[NoxMorbis]

CrimsonEye, on 15 March 2021 - 10:46 AM, said:

all you did was a little bit of damage at the cost of longer cooldown? are you nuts? do you guys actually sit down n test run many games before doing this?

Math is your friend:

Light PPC: Damage Increased to 7 (from 5)
= 40% increase in damage.

That's a "little bit?"

The rest got a 20% boost in damage.

Cool down and increase in heat is a debatable point vs increase in damage.

Some people don't go for DPS but close in alpha. DPS is based on time and unless you hit every shot, your DPS falls quickly with each missed shot.

[ShooterMcGavin80]

Among the weapons that were messed with, the only two that really needed help were light Gauss and light PPC's. The rest are totally fine and have their own nice niches. By significantly nerfing the mid-to-long range pinpoint option of Gauss/PPC's, you're basically guaranteeing that high DPS brawler/skirmishers are going to become the dominant playstyle. High DPS brawler/skirmishers are already very strong.

[jamesbombed00420]

Please undo masc changes.

[The pessimistic optimist]

NoxMorbis, on 16 March 2021 - 05:13 PM, said:

Math is your friend:

Light PPC: Damage Increased to 7 (from 5)
= 40% increase in damage.

That's a "little bit?"

The rest got a 20% boost in damage.

Cool down and increase in heat is a debatable point vs increase in damage.

Some people don't go for DPS but close in alpha. DPS is based on time and unless you hit every shot, your DPS falls quickly with each missed shot.

DPS needs face time these are made for shoot and hide tactics were you don't let them get shots back at you

Edited by SirSmokes, 16 March 2021 - 05:19 PM.

[Agent Super Chicken]

Let's talk about these gauss changes from a new player experience: Hey, try all the weapon systems in the game, please!
Oh but with these ones, if you miss on your first try, you'll be dead before you get a second shot. gee gee.
And if you rush a really skilled pilot who gets lucky and knocks out an XL torso with their first, higher alpha shot... umm. gee gee again?
With such randomness introduced to the game, why not just go with a pair of dice rolling across the arena? Hey... that's not a bad idea...
But back to player experience. In a 12 person team of friends it might make sense to have ultra niche roles... but in QP?
So we're already salty as can be that some people get chipped up and die early in the front, and have to sit and watch the video game (and make no money) while the people in the back are still kicking in the late game.
These new changes HEAVILY incentivize those people in the back to double down on this - it's going to be even harder to convince them to come up front and share some risk if they just can't pump out anything to get the reward.
These changes are appropriate to a single player turn based strategy game. Did the person who chose these changes consider their implications for the video game that we actually have?
Again, if there was a thought process behind this that I haven't discovered, and heck we tried it out but oh well it didn't go well, then so be it. I strongly, STRONGLY begged you to not make major changes any time you asked, and to only do small tweaks, so I don't know who asked you to go back to the drawing board. What were you thinking there will be a question for another day...
But seriously - back to just the gauss changes.. what was the thought process behind this? You have to tell us, please please please. I'm dying to figure this out. I just can't make heads or tails of these choices.
I'm having an absolutely horrible time trying to get your chances to work for me, and I just need to understand why this is happening.

Edited by Agent Super Chicken, 16 March 2021 - 05:34 PM.

[chaosshade2638]

PGI, what're you doing? Are you TRYING to drive players away?

[ShooterMcGavin80]

All they had to do was give a slight buff to LPPC's and LGR's.

LPPC's maybe a slight cooldown buff.

LGR's maybe a moderate damage buff and slight cooldown increase.

Instead they went nuts.

[The pessimistic optimist]

ShooterMcGavin80, on 16 March 2021 - 05:47 PM, said:

All they had to do was give a slight buff to LPPC's and LGR's.

LPPC's maybe a slight cooldown buff.

LGR's maybe a moderate damage buff and slight cooldown increase.

Instead they went nuts.

PPC got buffed over all guass not so sure about

[Raging Owlbear]

Problem with Ballistics -- RAC muzzle flash and impact flashes are still too big and bright. Why the heck do big bullets produce bigger explosions than missiles? It makes no sense.

[Scrap Metal On Legs]

Hello !
First time I post on the MWO Forum, even if I play MWO for 6 years now (I'm not even sure!).
First of all, I'm french-speaking canadian so pardon my bad english !

If I decided to wrote today is you say in the patch note :
"... and help the Light Gauss Rifle to better compete in this space."

Well guys, you really missed your goal !!!

I was having fun playing a medium mech with this, but even if you increased the damage for the LGR, its increased cooled down value makes it TOTALLY UNATTRACTIVE !!!

Exactly the opposite effect you were looking for !!!

I can't even imagine someone still interested to mount this weapon on his mech...

As to say, you'd better retired this weapon from the MWO arsenal !

If you agree with my post, please let it know, so they can review their decision...
Thanks

[Scrap Metal On Legs]

chaosshade2638, on 16 March 2021 - 05:42 PM, said:

PGI, what're you doing? Are you TRYING to drive players away?

Maybe its the plan !
Maybe they just want to disgust all players so they will all go on MWO5...
Then no more support team, no more servers, etc for MWO...

[BinaryFyre]

So far I've only played the PPCs post patch. Anyone who says PPCs are dead, do not know how to use PPCs and just aren't good enough to use them. All the builds you have on PPCs that are meta are just fine and all you really gotta do is change up your weapon groupings and change up your firing patterns. The way I play PPCs this isn't actually a nerf for me but I do even more dmg now cause I can get more dmg spread in my pinpoint. (and no if you've seen me play I don't camp and snipe, I brawl and flank all this nerf does is separate those who really know how to use PPCs from those who don't). So to team MWO who built the patch. Good job on the PPC bit.

I'll post my feedback on gauss when I get around to them. I'm pretty excited to bring out my Dao with the AC changes too!

*** I will say, these changes aren't what I thought was coming down the pipeline and for a PCC user like me I'll be even more deadly with that particular weapon system, I'm not sure that is good for everyone overall ***

Edited by BinaryFyre, 16 March 2021 - 06:51 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Lockheed_, on 16 March 2021 - 06:26 PM, said:

Here's some more info on the situation and an upcoming PTS. I dont know why this is not on the official forums yet, if it can be on youtube it can be on the forums.

https://youtu.be/XAdqCZVMXPw?t=1646

That should also be fun and we can compare directly to these changes this should be fun. Maybe we might learn something people learn I can only hope...

Edited by SirSmokes, 16 March 2021 - 06:29 PM.

[BinaryFyre]

Agent Super Chicken, on 16 March 2021 - 05:25 PM, said:

Let's talk about these gauss changes from a new player experience: Hey, try all the weapon systems in the game, please!
Oh but with these ones, if you miss on your first try, you'll be dead before you get a second shot. gee gee.
And if you rush a really skilled pilot who gets lucky and knocks out an XL torso with their first, higher alpha shot... umm. gee gee again?

I can say so far that with the PPC changes I can get rid of folks much faster!

[Sir LRMsalot]

Wow, those MASC changes are TERRIBLE.

You had a bunch of niche mechs that were not OP, but were FUN.

Spirit Bear, Skokomish, Lanners, Hellfires... MASC gave a reason to take these otherwise underpowered chassis.

And now you've nerfed that reason. Why!?!?!?

[bad builds bob]

Fishy Fingers, on 16 March 2021 - 06:47 PM, said:

Wow, those MASC changes are TERRIBLE.

You had a bunch of niche mechs that were not OP, but were FUN.

Spirit Bear, Skokomish, Lanners, Hellfires... MASC gave a reason to take these otherwise underpowered chassis.

And now you've nerfed that reason. Why!?!?!?

because people can't shoot fleas apparently.

[Aghtarn]

Hey PGI team!
I'm 1 year player, with 600+ hrs played.
Tier 1


I'm glad to see that "your efforts here are seriously disappointing..." you are actually changing the game (in a bit odd manner but still).

Let's start:

1)
PPC's are dead now
-------------------
(outDPSed by LPL by far, no joke - x2 DPS for the same weight and less heat)

C-ERPPC and light PPC are non-playable anymore in tiers higher than 3 if you want any PSR of DMG numbers, matches simply won't last long for you to score these hits.

Average game distances are 350-500, and if you try to play range trades - you are messed up by fast-movers.

Yes, you'd increase the projectile speed but 7sec cd has killed this weapon type.

Conclusion (PPCs):

• revert or rework the changes

2)
Ballistics:
-------------------
AC projectile speed wasn't an issue.
(AC20 speed, mb, but nothing "worth a shot" in general)

Gauss cd is ALREADY reduced by warmup sequence if you didn't notice that, so in fact your's 7sec cd is almost 9cd between actual shots.

So GAUSS is outclassed by UACs, RACs by far.
The only option is HGAUSS because of high alpha but you have your pants down after that one shot...

And again Light Gauss cd 5 sec, without ghost heat changes is dead on arrival.

Conclusion (Ballistics):

• rework the changes on GAUSS
  
• rework velocity to keep dakka builds in the current state

MASK:
-------------------
Without engine desync denial, the current MASK kills
SPIRIT BEAR KODIAK (A real-money version), and makes lights on MASK a range gameplay killer, so you are killing your own "BUFFS" by this move.


Conclusion (MASK):
- can be plausible IF we'll see a great rework on heavies and assaults, otherwise - nah.


Honorable mentions section:

"I said nothing about":

• engine desync
  
• rescale
  
• light mechs survivability through tanking with dead components
  
• spawn locations and other map-related stuff

"Thank you" part:

• love the bolt-on's that didn't fall of
  
• love the maps changes
  
• love the new trial MECHs on board!
  
• you started a changes process, - thank you, guys!
  
• messing up is okay, everybody did, - don't be upset!
  
• listen to your community - these people are real fanatics and the only thing they won't forgive you - project MWO being closed.

We are all waiting for a new weapon balance patch, so don't stop in a middle of a journey!

Thank you for listening,
Aghtarn

[Tin Roof Rusted]

I think next time they ask for improvements we shall all just tell them what DOESN'T need fixed then they may actually FIX the broken stuff that is actually broken.
Instead this time they F'd up the unbroken things and made them completely useless in the game while the same broken things still exists.
You guys are killn us here lol No PUN intended