801 replies to this topic

[TTB]

According to this, there is an issue where Clan ERPPCs actually do slightly more damage than intended. You guys might wanna look into that so that there are no issues from this once you (hopefully) roll back all the weird changes from this patch in three weeks.

[The6thMessenger]

TTB, on 22 March 2021 - 05:51 PM, said:

According to this, there is an issue where Clan ERPPCs actually do slightly more damage than intended. You guys might wanna look into that so that there are no issues from this once you (hopefully) roll back all the weird changes from this patch in three weeks.

I'm not even surprised that they are incapable of basic math, they don't even know the actual base values of the PPC cooldown and heat.

To think, these people balance by spreadsheet.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 22 March 2021 - 09:05 PM.

[Slothasaurus]

I don't know all the specifics with the whole patch. Just the basics. I let the smarter more informed people do deeper dives. I skimmed over this thread and seems the vast majority is unhappy with the weapon changes. That should tell a company something when newer players/long time players and inexperienced players/experienced players are all seeing something the same way.
For me personally matches are less fun now than before the patch. Not sure if it is due to everyone trying the changes out, if the new changes are forcing people to play a different style, or combination of factors.
Also I am wondering why are weapons even going to be being messed with? Was there some global outcry from the community to change them all? Aren't there other things that could be worked on that would improve the overall experience for everyone like quality of life changes(UI scaling adjustments or things like that)?

Edited by Slothasaurus, 23 March 2021 - 07:29 AM.

[Valec]

Slothasaurus, on 23 March 2021 - 07:28 AM, said:

I don't know all the specifics with the whole patch. Just the basics. I let the smarter more informed people do deeper dives. I skimmed over this thread and seems the vast majority is unhappy with the weapon changes. That should tell a company something when newer players/long time players and inexperienced players/experienced players are all seeing something the same way.
For me personally matches are less fun now than before the patch. Not sure if it is due to everyone trying the changes out, if the new changes are forcing people to play a different style, or combination of factors.
Also I am wondering why are weapons even going to be being messed with? Was there some global outcry from the community to change them all? Aren't there other things that could be worked on that would improve the overall experience for everyone like quality of life changes(UI scaling adjustments or things like that)?

People who liked the changes probably didn't run to the forums to make a post about it. Typically you see more people who have an axe to grind than you do happy players, which is why they come to the forums. I don't use PPCs much, but i'll probably use them more now that they're slightly more punchy.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

DAEDALOS513, on 22 March 2021 - 11:35 AM, said:

Decreasing size of mech won't matter much against pinpoint weapons that don't spread damage across hitboxes.. Some of Gulag's changes are reasonable.. but other's aren't. They want to buff heavy ppc's by decreasing heat and increasing velocity.. which is pretty insane and goes outside the weapons' niche. They also want to buff velocity on clan ac2's.. what? They want to decrease burst shell numbers and even heat on AC weapons.. why? AC's are the easiest weapon to control your heat with.. imagine a blood asp or madcat ii with better heat and burst shells.. bahahhaah.. i don't even..

I haven't even looked at all the changes but those really stood out for me.

Most of their proposed changes are like a little boys wish list of buffs.. a boy that doesn't know what's best for him.. If Gulag changes get implemented it would take us in the wrong direction and I see TTK being drastically reduced. IMO compers should not be dictating the direction of the game regardless of their experience.. they do not best represent the interests of the general mechwarrior.

They represent the interests of the general mechwarrior much better than Chris's intuition.

When I look at the Gulag's proposal all I can see if that it doesn't take away playstyles I enjoy, and it's being put together by a bunch of heads who in all likelihood know more about making this game fun than PGI's current balancing staff.

The only gripes I have with Gulag changes is when they intend to change the role of something they're rebalancing such that it cannot be used for it's original purpose. Funnily enough I was worried about the gulag nerfing MASC agility; their original proposal was to cut MASC's agility benefits in half in exchange for making MASC last twice as long...

But then what does PGI do? they come along and reduce MASC agility by 100% and in the process of doubling how long MASC lasts, they halved how quickly it cools down! It's like fine, there's a personal proof to me at least that no matter how much I might not love something the Gulag suggests, it's gotta be better than letting PGI make the choices, and that's exactly what PGI will do if we don't send them a unified proposal like Gulag does.

[DAEDALOS513]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 23 March 2021 - 08:49 AM, said:

They represent the interests of the general mechwarrior much better than Chris's intuition.

When I look at the Gulag's proposal all I can see if that it doesn't take away playstyles I enjoy, and it's being put together by a bunch of heads who in all likelihood know more about making this game fun than PGI's current balancing staff.

The only gripes I have with Gulag changes is when they intend to change the role of something they're rebalancing such that it cannot be used for it's original purpose. Funnily enough I was worried about the gulag nerfing MASC agility; their original proposal was to cut MASC's agility benefits in half in exchange for making MASC last twice as long...

But then what does PGI do? they come along and reduce MASC agility by 100% and in the process of doubling how long MASC lasts, they halved how quickly it cools down! It's like fine, there's a personal proof to me at least that no matter how much I might not love something the Gulag suggests, it's gotta be better than letting PGI make the choices, and that's exactly what PGI will do if we don't send them a unified proposal like Gulag does.

So you have no problem with decreasing TTK? Matches are already averaging 4-6 minutes long.. you really want to see matches averaging 3-5 minutes? Careful now..

Although some of Cauldron's proposals are ok, many aren't. The only way through this quagmire is baby steps. Maybe we take a poll on which weapon system needs tuning the most and we work on that first.. Or maybe take a poll on all Cauldron changes and start with the change(s) that receive the most support first.

I know individual weapons don't live in a vacuum and should be considered relative to their counterparts.. but if we make so many sweeping changes all at once it will make narrowing things down much more difficult and we'll be running in circles, nerfing mech quirks, buffing weapons.. (which is what gulag proposes).. it makes me dizzy just thinking about it.

I do like their masc proposal.. nothing too drastic there.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 23 March 2021 - 03:36 PM.

[UPnADAM]

That was some dev vlog last week..... Most dishonest gaming company on earth.

[Son of the Flood]

DAEDALOS513, on 22 March 2021 - 09:30 AM, said:

Where is KMD/Solo Kill stats at end score screen?

Where is headshot indicator during game?

Where is native quirk list separate from tree quirks?

Where is the teams friendly arty strike warning on HUD and map?

Many EASY ways (low hanging fruit as you put it) to improve game and move things forward.. i don't get the resistance..

These are great ideas, especially the last 2! I often find myself tuning an old mech and hopping into the store to see what the native quirks were on the variant. If native/tree quirks were highlighted a different color that would be helpful.

Agree on the last one as well, would be nice to know where friendly arties are dropped in advance of the shells arriving!

[DAEDALOS513]

Son of the Flood, on 23 March 2021 - 09:54 AM, said:

These are great ideas, especially the last 2! I often find myself tuning an old mech and hopping into the store to see what the native quirks were on the variant. If native/tree quirks were highlighted a different color that would be helpful.

Agree on the last one as well, would be nice to know where friendly arties are dropped in advance of the shells arriving!

I have many more easy to implement changes that most would agree with:

-adding 250 to 500 more capture points to clan warfare conquest mode.

-adding a damage tally to training grounds to see how your dps fairs against heat.

-adding another column in our friends list that we can custom fill ourselves. ATM there is a column for blocked players.. such a waste of realestate...

-increasing cooldown for arty and air strikes by around 10 seconds

-making the domination circle have random locations (maybe 3 or 4) per map. This would breath new life to our tired maps by utilizing different, mostly unused areas. This might be tricky but maps are big enough so as to have wiggle room for some new spots for circle other than dead center where battles happen anyway. Even if they spawned us all nearer to the circle so that travel time wasn't a factor, the circle could be literally placed anywhere on the map..

We've given pgi soooo many good 'easy' suggestions over the years.. It's taken some time but I must say they have implemented quite a few player suggestions over the years.. but they still have so many more to dip into.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 23 March 2021 - 03:34 PM.

[Blechreiz]

DAEDALOS513, on 23 March 2021 - 09:34 AM, said:

Although some of gulag's proposals are ok, many aren't. The only way through this quagmire is baby steps. Maybe we take a poll on which weapon system needs tuning the most and we work on that first.. Or maybe take a poll on all gulag changes and start with the change(s) that receive the most support first.

I know individual weapons don't live in a vacuum and should be considered relative to their counterparts.. but if we make so many changes all at once it will make narrowing things down much more difficult and we'll be running in circles, nerfing mech quirks, buffing weapons.. (which is what gulag proposes).. it makes me dizzy just thinking about it.

This would be the best approach to improve the game...

But since many people would still be pushing to have all the changes implemented I really hope that they put up a PTR with all the proposed changes just so people could see what a massive impact those changes would have.

My guess is, having read the proposal and having the watched the video, many people would be in for some disappointment...

[mytilus edulis]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 23 March 2021 - 08:49 AM, said:

They represent the interests of the general mechwarrior much better than Chris's intuition.

When I look at the Gulag's proposal all I can see if that it doesn't take away playstyles I enjoy, and it's being put together by a bunch of heads who in all likelihood know more about making this game fun than PGI's current balancing staff.

The only gripes I have with Gulag changes is when they intend to change the role of something they're rebalancing such that it cannot be used for it's original purpose. Funnily enough I was worried about the gulag nerfing MASC agility; their original proposal was to cut MASC's agility benefits in half in exchange for making MASC last twice as long...

But then what does PGI do? they come along and reduce MASC agility by 100% and in the process of doubling how long MASC lasts, they halved how quickly it cools down! It's like fine, there's a personal proof to me at least that no matter how much I might not love something the Gulag suggests, it's gotta be better than letting PGI make the choices, and that's exactly what PGI will do if we don't send them a unified proposal like Gulag does.

No they didn't reduce MASC's agility by 100%, it's more like 105-130%

[mytilus edulis]

50 50, on 21 March 2021 - 04:55 PM, said:

I will note that the Autocannon line (in particular) from Battletech is backward to anything you might expect even semi-realistically. Probably done because of turn based table top reasons which didn't track reload times.
Why is it that heavier 'Cannons' have a worse range than lighter weapons?

the MWO universe explanation is that the heavier cannons use a heavier projectile without apparently increasing the powder load, so they travel slower and thus have a lower effective range. This does hold true for things like 5.56 vs 300BLK vs .50 Beowulf in real life so....not completely off

[MechTech Dragoon]

Not that it matters much, but I enjoy the change. Finding less pop-tarting, more opportunity to push into sniper mechs and things like quad ppc assaults are still heavy and scary.

[HEAD_SHOT]

Snub-nosed PPC's should do more damage...

[Just Call Me Dead]

Thank you for all of your hard work. MWO is my favorite FPS of all time. Thanks for your bold efforts on the recent patch. The MASC is just really bad now. Everything else; OK. However, please revert the MASC. It make all of the mechs that had it not as good. The small advantage they had with it feels gone. Not only would you use it to burst speed to get places, but the agility boost was a small help in getting out of fire. This patch makes it something not very helpful. Thanks again for your hard work on it!

[Jack Shayu Walker]

DAEDALOS513, on 23 March 2021 - 09:34 AM, said:

So you have no problem with decreasing TTK? Matches are already averaging 4-6 minutes long.. you really want to see matches averaging 3-5 minutes? Careful now..

Although some of Cauldron's proposals are ok, many aren't. The only way through this quagmire is baby steps. Maybe we take a poll on which weapon system needs tuning the most and we work on that first.. Or maybe take a poll on all Cauldron changes and start with the change(s) that receive the most support first.

I know individual weapons don't live in a vacuum and should be considered relative to their counterparts.. but if we make so many sweeping changes all at once it will make narrowing things down much more difficult and we'll be running in circles, nerfing mech quirks, buffing weapons.. (which is what gulag proposes).. it makes me dizzy just thinking about it.

I do like their masc proposal.. nothing too drastic there.

I really couldn't care less about TTK, dude. What's more important? weapons being balanced and fun to use, or the game having a slow pace? I say just about anything is better than letting Chris steer the ship. I also do not see how the Gulag changes would significantly decrease TTK in the first place, to be honest.

But you know what? My or your speculating might very well be irrelevant. Daeron insinuated that all Gulag changes not requiring engineering staff to implement would be implemented onto a PTS in the next month. If that comes to pass, we'll find out just how well the Gulag's proposal works. If it goes over well, I expect it will go through several iterations before being taken to the live server.

And you can bet I'll be playing on that PTS exclusively until it does go live. After this patch, the Live Server is dead to me until further notice. The current changes are unbearable.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 24 March 2021 - 09:01 AM.

[Theodore]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 24 March 2021 - 08:58 AM, said:

snip

And you can bet I'll be playing on that PTS exclusively until it does go live. After this patch, the Live Server is dead to me until further notice. The current changes are unbearable.

I was originally going to wait for the PTS, but after hearing that they will be rolling back the current patch in April... I'll definitely come back to live servers once that happens. (maybe to at least get my first match of the day).

(But my main focus is to play the PTS extensively).

While I do currently miss playing MWO, the current patch is just not fun for me... I just wish the roll back was sooner... (like emergency patch soon)... April seems like so far away!

[Agent Super Chicken]

So, when making changes in the future, I want to float another idea to keep in mind:
When we take weapons and give them a 7s cooldown, it further widens the gap between bad mechs and good mechs.
Good mechs with 6-10 of the same hardpoint get better, and older mechs with a kitchen sink variety of hardpoints are harmed by it.
If the Light Gauss was 4.4 seconds (and maybe 10.5 dmg), you could do 2xLight Gauss with MRMs or something, and have a lovely time in an old AS7-D-DC, for example.
I feel keeping this consideration in mind, with future changes, would be very helpful to let players enjoy a wider variety of the mechs that you worked so hard to publish.
Please and thanks

[The Brewer]

Thanks for the heads-up. I found most of the weapons changes in the patch a net negative, and watching people use MASC was just painful tbh. I'm looking forward to the PTS, I have been following their proposals for a while and I'm stoked.

[Big-G]

PTS going live next Monday/Tuesday depending on your geo-location...