801 replies to this topic

[SharksSharksSharks]

These are terrible ideas. PPCs did not need nerfs. Gauss did not need nerfs. Light Gauss cooldown being doubled is *nuts*. That is a gargantuan nerf do an already underwhelming weapon system. But it sounds like you wanted to make it better? I don't understand.

If this turns out to be wildly unpopular, will you guys actually roll it back?

[Valdarion Silarius]

Instead of screaming that the sky is falling with every balance patch change, I will agree and state that PGI shouldn't be touching heat values on anything until ghost heat is fixed and/or we get a general buff on all global SHS/DHS. I'm not really worried about map fixes (but yes please hire someone if they can fix the invisible wall issues on some maps) but someone that properly understands heat scaling from the development team.

[Gas Guzzler]

I like the velocity changes, mixed feelings on the dmg/cooldown changes. The cooldown seems really long. I'm willing to try it though.

[Trennbull]

Please fix the heat bug and the heat spike on loss of ST and STOP THESE STUPID NERFES!


If there is one thing you need to do/learn dear PGI is to make sure you NEVER unfun the game again. Otherwise you can just drop it all together. And this "patch" and the nerfes that come along are just wrong!

Edited by Trennbull, 15 March 2021 - 12:05 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Windscape, on 15 March 2021 - 10:46 AM, said:

PPC's are now less useful as a whole (lower DPS).

PPC's will only find use in fringe applications (AWS, WHK, GHR).

LPPC and LGR are useless due to cooldown.

Snubs are far too hot to be used ever.

Masc no longer rewards skilled movement.

Soup will consist of more DPS meta than there already is, making Nascar's harder and laps faster.

Never let Chris touch weapons balance, please.

They are a better sniper weapon at the cost of DPS now

Trennbull, on 15 March 2021 - 12:05 PM, said:

Please fix the heat bug and the heat spike on loss of ST and STOP THESE STUPID NERFES!


If there is one thing you need to do/learn dear PGI is to make sure you NEVER unfun the game again. Otherwise you can just drop it all together. And this "patch" and the nerfes that come along are just wrong!

All people see is the nerfs and not the buffs they got. It's a buff and a nerf it can do one thing better now but it's much more that roll now. Lets try it out first before we lose our minds.

Edited by SirSmokes, 15 March 2021 - 12:09 PM.

[Duncan1dah0]

Wow, talk about feedback. I've never been into the PPC and Gauss so I don't have much input, but I wanted to be part of the thread. I am interested in what the MASC change will do.

Carry on enjoying the game ya'all.

[The Mysterious Fox]

RIP executioner

[Hiten Bongz]

Please revert the MASC mobility nerfs, that was just unnecessary.

[Gas Guzzler]

The Shazbot, on 15 March 2021 - 11:23 AM, said:

Snubs are already too hot to be of use except for a few select cases. Now they will be entirely unusable. Same with Heavy PPCs.

Their HPS relative to their DPS went down though.

I would rather their DPS remained the same.

[Culnan]

Have to chime in to add to the chorus here. These weapon changes look TERRIBLE. The cooldown spikes are huge, and that will massively reduce the enjoyment of these nerfed weapons (let alone making the already terrible and never seen Light Gauss and PPC even worse, for reasons). Like it or not, MWO is a game where fractions of a second on cooldown matter hugely to both how a weapon performs and how fun it is to use (compare stuff like LB10s on a normal mech vs a Legend Killer, or MRMs on a normal mech vs IV4). Adding entire seconds to these cooldowns is just terrible, and not compensated for by the increased damage imo. Gauss rifle (both tech bases) is 40% slower, but only hits 13% harder. Snub PPC is 15% hotter (just why?), 33% slower and only 20% more damage. Clann PPC hits 20% harder but is 40% slower.

This is a terrible nerfing and I sincerely hope you'll role it back extremely quickly.

[Gas Guzzler]

My suggestion is setting the cooldown on both the Gauss and the PPCs to maintain previous DPS with the new damage output, and then adjusting as needed.

The more I think about it the more I could see the current DPS situation being a problem.

[Bud Crue]

SirSmokes, on 15 March 2021 - 12:05 PM, said:

They are a better sniper weapon at the cost of DPS now

This made me think of some poor schmuck going full Chris and building some slow assault around multiple HPPCs (or even "better" LPPCs) so as to take advantage of those sweet velocity increases.

That first alpha at max range. The smug smile as they connect with the target. Then the dawning horror as they watch the enemy team's LRMers throw volley after volley of woosh in their direction while the poor sucker has to wait a full *seven* seconds before they can respond. Good for snipping my rear. Those cool downs plus added heat are going to make PPC builds unfun in the extreme.

[Stitchedup]

This is just what this game needs less shooting and if you get shot die quicker, well done ask for what the community wants the just do as you please. (This barbed sarcasm just incase you thought this was praise)

[Nesutizale]

PPC Change...right idea, wrong execution I think. While widening the room to design the weapons is good you just slapped one change on everything. Give the weapons more character with the "room" you make.

I think the basic idea should be more in this direction:

PPC - The basis for all PPCs. The workinghorse of the line with nothing special.

ER-PPC - Extended range with more heat and weight but also faster velocitiy. For people who want to snipe with an energie weapon. Similar to the Light Gauss or Gauss, exchangeing ammo for heat.

Light PPC - Smaller the the standart with less damage and weight. Usefull for pilots that want PPCs in the lights and mediums because of the pinpoint damage compared to lasers spreading easly.

Heavy PPC - Heavy weight, lots of heat but also the damage over long ranges. That is similar to the ER-PPC as its basicly the energy Gauss.

Snubnose PPC - I would still entertain the idea of makeing this a shotgun PPC. Similar to the Clan ER-PPC with a spread to the next two sections.

Clan ER-PPC - I this is where you could play with the cooldown. A heavy hitter but with the drawback that you don't do it that often.

I think similar changes to the "character" of weapons would be good for the Gauss line.
Where its working well is for Autocannons. You have slugs, clusters and rotary and the IS and Clan firing pattern. That makes the different kinds actualy interesting as they have either special use cases or give people different styles of play.

I realy like to take an IS-AC20 and push it into people faces over nearly every other cannon because it just feels good.
On the other hand firing a bunch of racs like you are a madman is also entertaining from time to time. Not efficient maybe but it feels good to satisfy my inner ORC.

Values and meta and balance are fine and maybe good for the 1% but fun in diversity and choice of playstyle are also importend...maybe even more.
I did say lets first find the character and niche for all the weapons and then care about values.
------------------

Maps

CAUSTIC VALLEY
I think I haven't played that map enough lately...whats the differance?
Also for the sun to beeing so low ... shouldn't there be more shadows on the ground? Sure all the fog might scatter the light a lot so that there is a lot of ambient lighting leaveing no or very faint shadows.

HIBERNAL RIFT
Now that looks good. Seams I won't be snowblind anymore and there are more details visible. Have to see it live to see how I like it.

Edited by Nesutizale, 15 March 2021 - 12:28 PM.

[crazytimes]

For far too long MASC users have been getting away with their slightly faster turns. I am glad that they have been punished and the MASC spam has finally been stomped out.

[ColourfulConfetti]

Honestly I just would have preferred that you had left PPCS and Gauss weapons as they were.

[Serenna187]

I expected nothing and am still let down.PPCs were already toasty but THIS is ridiculous,even more alpha damage is nice and all but melting after one shot and this absurd cooldown...stop using spreadsheets,play the damn game and listen to competent players.Seriously,the masc changes alone make it blatant obvious how out of touch pgi is with their own game yet again

I also like how the clan gauss remains a suicide component with its poor hp value

[Gas Guzzler]

Serenna187, on 15 March 2021 - 12:25 PM, said:

I expected nothing and am still let down.PPCs were already toasty but THIS is ridiculous,even more alpha damage is nice and all but melting after one shot and this absurd cooldown...stop using spreadsheets,play the damn game and listen to competent players.Seriously,the masc changes alone make it blatant obvious how out of touch pgi is with their own game yet again

I also like how the clan gauss remains a suicide component with its poor hp value

HPS went down more than DPS did.

The problem is the lower DPS, NOT the heat.

[ColourfulConfetti]

It's the combination of high heat and the cooldown that really hurt the weapon. If it was just one of those two, it'd have been fine. The higher initial strike damage is a considerable factor (you get plenty of chances to utilize the potential of a higher damage first strike), but the fact it is paired with huge heat hikes is making the changes a net negative.

Edited by ColourfulConfetti, 15 March 2021 - 12:30 PM.

[GweNTLeR]

I just realized LGR now have 37.5% more damage per ammo tonn due to ammo count staying the same.
Considering it had pretty high value already, it is now enough to have 1.5 ton per LGR? or even 1 ton?
Maybe (and I say MAYBE) it is not really THAT nerfed? Or even boosted?
The effective DPS of LGR was limited by charge mechanic previously, so now being limited by cooldown instead is not really that much of a deal?

Edited by GweNTLeR, 15 March 2021 - 12:37 PM.