114 replies to this topic

[Cherge]

Not that LRM's shouldn't be touched, but I think the problem is more with AMS in quick play.

Since you go in blind, it's either LRM's are generally overused and AMS is then free bump to PSR, or LRM's are generally underused and AMS isn't worth taking.

Then because of this, people slowly see AMS is underused and then start using LRMs more, for no reason other than this cat and mouse game of what the the general population uses

I don't know the fix for this, but it's just kind of lame

[pbiggz]

Removing indirect locks completely save for TAG and NARC, and making LRMs fire and forget might do the trick. Hard to say. LRMs are a complicated weapon.

[FupDup]

I've been saying this since 2012.

[pbiggz]

FupDup, on 20 March 2021 - 11:28 AM, said:

I've been saying this since 2012.

A lot of people have and there's a good reason for it.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Meep Meep, on 19 March 2021 - 07:36 AM, said:

Do these mods address the AI shortcomings or do they use brute force stuff like bonus damage and other AI buffs the player doesn't get?

Haven't played any of the others, but Roguetech gives AI much more effective stock builds and (IIRC) raises the limit on how many OPFOR units can be on the map at one time. The AI isn't fantastic in vanilla, but most of the shortcoming is from the rather mediocre stock builds, the fact that most of what you fight is at <75% armor, the vanilla agility/accuracy system, &c.

Even just vanilla with all enemies at 100% armor, lower CTH/higher agility, and better stock builds is enough for the game to be markedly harder.

Edited by Alexander of Macedon, 20 March 2021 - 11:59 AM.

[Meep Meep]

Alexander of Macedon, on 20 March 2021 - 11:51 AM, said:

Haven't played any of the others, but Roguetech gives AI much more effective stock builds and (IIRC) raises the limit on how many OPFOR units can be on the map at one time. The AI isn't fantastic in vanilla, but most of the shortcoming is from the rather mediocre stock builds, the fact that most of what you fight is at <75% armor, the vanilla agility/accuracy system, &c.

Even just vanilla with all enemies at 100% armor, lower CTH/higher agility, and better stock builds is enough for the game to be markedly harder.

Nice. Well battletech is currently going for $3 on the steam key selling sites so might as well grab it and give it a try. Thanks for the reply.

Cherge, on 20 March 2021 - 09:26 AM, said:

Not that LRM's shouldn't be touched, but I think the problem is more with AMS in quick play.

Since you go in blind, it's either LRM's are generally overused and AMS is then free bump to PSR, or LRM's are generally underused and AMS isn't worth taking.

Then because of this, people slowly see AMS is underused and then start using LRMs more, for no reason other than this cat and mouse game of what the the general population uses

I don't know the fix for this, but it's just kind of lame

It's people adapting to the battlespace. When I see that ams boating is where the brownian motion has taken the playerbase I'll focus on playing stealthy mechs and do the backstab. When there isn't much ams then out comes the sunspider or huntsman and I get to have some really fun bully games like I linked in an earlier post. If people are really so concerned about lrm or idf in general then always mount at least one ams since most mechs have a hardpoint. Plus radar dep at 100% is always the bane of any missile slinger. Also never vote for polar highlands.

[PocketYoda]

Bud Crue, on 19 March 2021 - 10:57 AM, said:

I don't know about a rework, but it seems like last night a whole bunch of folks who previously were trying out the new PPC changes suddenly decided that they weren't working for them, and en masse they all changed over to LRM boats. It almost felt like the old LRMagedon days. Had three matches in a row where two of us running dual AMS Jesters actually ran out of ammo (Polar, Terra and Crimson).

It does make me wonder why LRMs are so often the default weapon for so many, and that maybe something should be changed with them or other systems to encourage an alternative.

Many customers can't aim for various reasons.. Lrm boats mitigate that.. My friends always runs LRM boats and i give them **** for it.. but turns out his PC is so crappy his FPS will only allow lrm style play.. Another has a medical condition that affects his hand eye co-ordination. LRMs make it so they literally can play.

I'm not defending Lurmers they drive me nuts even with 4 AMS 8800 Corsair 7A its still runs dry and dies on polar, don't let these Lurmers fool people AMS is crap.

Meep Meep, on 20 March 2021 - 04:25 AM, said:

They already do if they want to maximize their damage output.

Most don't and say so at the beginning of every match "please remember your locks i'm a LRM boat"..

Thats code for i want to sit up the back and do nothing while you do all the work...

Edited by Samial, 20 March 2021 - 06:11 PM.

[Meep Meep]

Samial, on 20 March 2021 - 06:04 PM, said:

Most don't and say so at the beginning of every match "please remember your locks i'm a LRM boat"..

Thats code for i want to sit up the back and do nothing while you do all the work...

I've never quite understood this sentiment. A player is offering up suppression fire support so when you go after a mech they can target them and make them twist and turn to spread the damage and not shoot at you instead and this is somehow a negative. Why? One of my favorite things to do in my stealth flea is to tag unsuspecting mechs so my own sides lurmsters can shower him with love as I giggle unnoticed in the rear.

[JediPanther]

Samial, on 19 March 2021 - 07:03 PM, said:

Make Lurmers get their own locks like it should be.

Funny because I love lrms and fully agree. If your mech doesn't have the full sensor suite with c/bap plus at least one uav then quit being a little ***** ***** begging for lock at the start of a match. Never mind the trial cat is the A1 which if I had my way would be the C1 with 3xmls and tag.

If you're not lrm-ing at 500m-183m then you are doing it wrong.

[Lucian Nostra]

Samial, on 20 March 2021 - 06:04 PM, said:

I'm not defending Lurmers they drive me nuts even with 4 AMS 8800 Corsair 7A its still runs dry and dies on polar, don't let these Lurmers fool people AMS is crap.

LoL AMS is NOT crap, ran my Awesome 8R a bunch the other night with a friend narcing, 1100-1300 damage games because enemy teams had piss poor AMS, ECM didn't help them because of Narc and TAG. Hit Alpine peaks, domination, was like my god man this is gonna be a slaughter with how open Alpine is. Corsair 7a, Triple AMS Nova said "Hey Lurmer.. how do you feel about doing 350 damage over the course of the entire match?"

I use a Corsair 7a off and on, last game in Tourmaline I shot down 1575 missiles and my AMS ammo was almost gone by the end. My 7 ton investement took out almost 7 tons of LRMs ammo AND more importantly took that LRM boat out of the game without us even having to engage him, basically took that game to a 12 v 11 right at the start. If more people just brought a single AMS on their mech LRM pains would be dialed down a lot.

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 20 March 2021 - 10:53 PM.

[Kynesis]

Please don't touch the weapon systems. They're not perfect but tinkering like this is terrible for the game.
We've just won an influx of new players, just leave it alone.
Work on the things that actually need fixing, like the chat and grouping systems... and the choppy audio when there's a lot going on... and wacky UI issues in the Store (as evidenced by the last event).

[Vellron2005]

The6thMessenger, on 19 March 2021 - 12:34 AM, said:

No, this ain't an LRM OP thread. But given the PTS by the Gulag, and their apparent reworking of UACs, which I like, maybe we could also fix other problematic mechanics in the game.

One of the people in the Comp, I don't want to point names, and hopefully it's not offensive to mention his statement which might make him identifiable, he told me that Homing Weapons in general, are "Bully weapons".

Honestly, I was like "wow seriously?" in disbelief, for while homing weapons do offer near 100% chance to land due to basically being autoaim homing-weapons, you have the capacity to break lock anyways. If you don't have the skills to use cover, there's always AMS cover. Compared to bonafide direct-fire weapons, if you can land your shots anyways you're just jumping through of maintaining locks and slower projectile speed than lets say a PPC, but it's much more accessible to those of low aim skill.

That being said, and let me be perfectly clear, I agree, somewhat. It can be oppressive to get narced in the middle of Polar Highlands, around hungry hungry LRM boats and there's NOTHING you can do about it -- you can hide under ECM cover, yeah, but in many cases it's just LRMs that will blot out the sun. It's a mechanic, that if you get this right, can be downright unfair.

Maybe it's time to have some sort of mechanic rework, or re-niching of homing weapons?

Your Thoughts?

Addenum:

Please stop trying to ruin LRMs even further.

Just... stop.

LRMs were fine. People like you ruined them. Then we adjusted, but yet again you people needed to ruin them more. AGAIN we adjusted, but yet again, it's not enough for you people.

JUST STOP.

If anything, LRMs need some major buffs..

[ThreeStooges]

Add on inferno and thunder lrms first. Also make lrm 5s do 5 splash damage and 5 heat per hit. Dam things are worth less than a flamer unless you boat six or more of them.

[CuriousCabbitBlue]

/me laughs in hellspawn

[Sjorpha]

LRMs are fine as they are IMO.

[Fae Puka]

East Indy, on 20 March 2021 - 06:23 AM, said:

Assuming Gulag changes to ATMs, I think it's simple:

1. Indirect fire deals considerably less damage. Video game logic and be done with it.
2. NARC beacons have longer range, higher velocity and more ammo per ton, but require a lower damage total to "fall off."
3. Streaks deal proportionately less damage to lower-tonnage targets. Again, video game logic.

Just wrong on so many levels - the missiles deal damage through a warhead, so arc or direct, they will deal the same damage. Narc sits in with the ghosting ppc hits where even against a stationery target, they pass straight through without dealing damage, so more a case of correcting how "sticky" they are. Finally Straks carry a warhead, therefor the damage is the same regardless of mech tonnage - or are you suggesting that all weapon damage is now adjusted by tonnage?!

[The6thMessenger]

Vellron2005, on 21 March 2021 - 08:02 AM, said:

Please stop trying to ruin LRMs even further.

Just... stop.

LRMs were fine. People like you ruined them. Then we adjusted, but yet again you people needed to ruin them more. AGAIN we adjusted, but yet again, it's not enough for you people.

JUST STOP.

If anything, LRMs need some major buffs..

No.

[Bennesto]

Vellron2005, on 21 March 2021 - 08:02 AM, said:

Please stop trying to ruin LRMs even further.

Just... stop.

LRMs were fine. People like you ruined them. Then we adjusted, but yet again you people needed to ruin them more. AGAIN we adjusted, but yet again, it's not enough for you people.

JUST STOP.

If anything, LRMs need some major buffs..

No.

[Meep Meep]

Vellron2005, on 21 March 2021 - 08:02 AM, said:

If anything, LRMs need some major buffs..

No. This is from someone who likes lurmspam and plays them often even in tier 1 though I typically stick to a cougar or huntsman so I'm not wasting a heavy or assault and gimping my team. They are annoying but ineffective sandblasters when running idf and even with los they still spread around the ct though with skills and narc it keeps most hitting center.

The biggest drawback is that if you are going to boat them then you have little tonnage left for backup weapons unless you like running out of ammo halfway through the match. I have to stick with the push in that sunspider or it gets eaten up fast by lights and mediums.

All people have to do in general is use their ams hardpoint and if enough do that then lrm become useless or get at least 60~100% radar dep and be mindful of cover. I know some maps simply don't allow that like polar highlands and alpine but lurmsters gotta have a friendly map just like the brawlers prefer the cluttered maps.

[InvictusLee]

The6thMessenger, on 19 March 2021 - 12:34 AM, said:

Your Thoughts?

Addenum:

I want a mode where my character starts getting PTSD from the falling rain while on polar highlands.
It would be funny as hell, but I'd also like the option to opt into that mode.