114 replies to this topic

[CrystalGem]

Let it rain friend

GL HF

o7

[50 50]

The6thMessenger, on 23 March 2021 - 10:16 PM, said:

Hitting long range is hard without significant velocity boost.

And once you do that, you're also encroaching on MRM territory.

There are still several difference in the weapon such as the fire mode and LRM minimum range (if that is kept).
If they were to be a direct fire and forget kind of weapon then a velocity increase could be looked at, being mindful of the LBx weapons.
There is still all the other variables such as heat, cooldown, missile spread, damage, ammo/ton, tonnage, critical slots and number of tubes.

Also, any changes like that also need to take into account any changes for the skill tree.

The bigger part of it would be to give room for other weapons like Streak missiles and reserve the lock on feature for those, or dedicated indirect fire weapons.

At the moment LRMs try to do too much and be to complex.

[Meep Meep]

50 50, on 28 March 2021 - 05:22 PM, said:

At the moment LRMs try to do too much and be to complex.

Dunno. In the current iteration they have two uses. Harassment sand blasting with long range indirect fire or line of sight concentrated damage. In every lrm whine thread the main complaint is boating with them which devolves into some convoluted winding discussion about changing damage or velocity or any number of other stats which all fail to address the actual complaint of boating.

I put up an easy solution earlier of simply increasing the tonnage of all launchers so that if you choose to boat you will have no room for anything else with only a little bit of ammo or not boat and get everything back. This could also be done with an increase to slot size instead so that you simply cannot boat them at all due to slot restrictions or possibly a mix of the two. This will leave lrm and other missile loadouts still effective but constrained to reasonable fits.

[GeorgePig]

Meep Meep, on 28 March 2021 - 10:36 PM, said:

Dunno. In the current iteration they have two uses. Harassment sand blasting with long range indirect fire or line of sight concentrated damage. In every lrm whine thread the main complaint is boating with them which devolves into some convoluted winding discussion about changing damage or velocity or any number of other stats which all fail to address the actual complaint of boating.

I put up an easy solution earlier of simply increasing the tonnage of all launchers so that if you choose to boat you will have no room for anything else with only a little bit of ammo or not boat and get everything back. This could also be done with an increase to slot size instead so that you simply cannot boat them at all due to slot restrictions or possibly a mix of the two. This will leave lrm and other missile loadouts still effective but constrained to reasonable fits.

Yep go for it - however, you will need to do the same for every other weapon system to avoid whatever boating meta is going on at the moment; let's be fair about it all

[Meep Meep]

GeorgePig, on 29 March 2021 - 02:09 AM, said:

Yep go for it - however, you will need to do the same for every other weapon system to avoid whatever boating meta is going on at the moment; let's be fair about it all

I'm not advocating it be done but its probably the most reasonable and easy to implement solution if the new owners decide to go for a rebalance.

[Runecarver]

Adding more arbitrary hoops for LRMs to jump through in order to use their indirect fire mode is bad design, plain and simple. What we already have is a huge limiter in their effectiveness, mainly the increase in locking time the further the out of sight target is away from the LRM utilizing mech, and the spread increase. It was this very same spread increase that has forced most LRM boats to maximize as many large launchers as still feasible and efficient, as anything else just leads to useless sandpaper damage. These extremely short sighted proposals to force LRM mechs to rely on random teammates to provide NARC or TAG services just to achieve basic utility guarantees that you wouldn't be able play with LRMs solo. Which, I suppose, is entirely the thing the eternal whingers want.

They are perfectly fine as they are.The argument that LRM boats are the only ones sitting in the back using friendlies as ablative armor is a moot point, since players will do that with extended range large lasers, ppcs, autocannons and any other weapon whose optimum range passes 700 meters. It seems people forgotten the times on Polar highlands when poptarting PPCs and ER large lasers was the chic thing to do, and peeking even the tiniest bit of your mech meant that part got eviscerated off in the blink of an eye. It was just as oppressive as the cries about homing missiles.

Edited by Runecarver, 30 March 2021 - 05:16 AM.

[Meep Meep]

lol lrm brawling.. I don't think I was ever any further away than around 250m from a target.

[Meep Meep]

Heh, Baradul likes the jenner IIc lurmster fit too. Not enough ammo on his build as he went for an extra 5 tubes though.

[InvictusLee]

If we are talking missiles, we should just buybLL and roll its mechanics into MWO.

Meep Meep, on 30 March 2021 - 06:58 AM, said:

lol lrm brawling.. I don't think I was ever any further away than around 250m from a target.

Mech?

Also I frequently lrm brawl and hunt down mediums when im in my LRM mechs. Its fun.

[Meep Meep]

November11th, on 17 April 2021 - 04:24 AM, said:

Mech?

Also I frequently lrm brawl and hunt down mediums when im in my LRM mechs. Its fun.

That was the purple people eater veagle from a few posts back. One of my favorite mechs right now.

[The6thMessenger]

You know this was supposed to be a topic to discuss if there could be a mechanics rework of LRMs. Not an "LRM is OP" thread.

[Meep Meep]

The6thMessenger, on 17 April 2021 - 02:59 PM, said:

You know this was supposed to be a topic to discuss if there could be a mechanics rework of LRMs. Not an "LRM is OP" thread.

But lrm are about as balanced a weapon system as we can get at this point. Entire patch cycles revolved around them at one point. The only real complaint I hear is boating and that isn't all that common anymore due to so many maps being lrm unfriendly unless you want to work outside the box like my mobile clam fits. My bits were to counter the 'lrm are horrible' crowd.

[InvictusLee]

The6thMessenger, on 17 April 2021 - 02:59 PM, said:

You know this was supposed to be a topic to discuss if there could be a mechanics rework of LRMs. Not an "LRM is OP" thread.

Listen man. I have a love/hate relationship with the rain, mainly because of how maps work. For instance, i almost always get stuck in polarhighlands with no ecm, ams or any team coverage when I am not running a LRM mech, where i die pretty much instantly. when I AM running said LRM mech, i am usually stuck on a brawling map, and or in tight spaces like tunnels, canyon hallways or maps with tons of obstacles like solaris city that makes LRM boating rather pointless.

I said all that to say this; LRMs are REALLY broken, but not from lack of balance. They are super balanced.
The rub, as you described previously in this thread is that artillery, in all its forms, is inherently unfair, OP and asymmetrical in death dealing. Its SUPPOSED to be unbalanced and OP. Why PGI got rid of the longtom and made no effort to put other BT Artillery weapons/mechs to balance against LRMs is beyond me. You fight artillery with other types of artillery or with superior intelligence gathering and maneuvers.

I think LRMs aught to go back to prenerf specs including the stupid tracking that targetted the torso exclusively.
The key to fixing LRMs isnt balance; Its finding effective and useful countermeasures to either nullify tracking or counter artillery.

[Surefoot]

The Mysterious Fox, on 24 March 2021 - 10:04 AM, said:

lrm boats and snipers create the same problems, it brings players and armor away from their team mates since the tendency for casual players is to squat 800m away without even noticing that the teams left them on the mini map. what kind of weapon changes would change player behaviour? the lower arcs were pretty good, a range nerf?

This is the key issue and why "elitists" dislike lurmers: they remove a lot of armor tonnage from the frontline.

Like someone said earlier: remove the ubiquitous C3 system from MWO mechs. Have them work to get their own locks, through BAP, NARC, TAG or just better positioning. Keep the C3 computer as a separate add-on (with would eat up tonnage and slots..) for whoever wants to play strategically as a team.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Surefoot, on 20 April 2021 - 01:47 AM, said:

This is the key issue and why "elitists" dislike lurmers: they remove a lot of armor tonnage from the frontline.

Like someone said earlier: remove the ubiquitous C3 system from MWO mechs. Have them work to get their own locks, through BAP, NARC, TAG or just better positioning. Keep the C3 computer as a separate add-on (with would eat up tonnage and slots..) for whoever wants to play strategically as a team.

`the most to stupid, to learn tahts IS LRMs useless under 180m or thats Clan LRMS have a Lower Flightline and when you seeing thats you LRMs flying in a Wall, thats this not make Damage to the enemy 500m behind it