102 replies to this topic

[pbiggz]

Mechwho, on 23 March 2021 - 04:17 PM, said:

At this point I don't believe they are anywhere balanced or that we are getting enough numbers to make it function in a reliable way.


I've been in this limbo between tier 3 and tier 2 where there doesn't seem to be any improvement in team cohesion much less comunication, in fact it gets alot worse and it seems to improve once you go back to tier 3.

I want to believe I'm in a ''Elo Hell'' right now and what is causing this back and forth is me trying too hard (which might be part of the issue tbf) but I can't ignore the above mentioned issues... couple that with the frustration of seeing the Tier bar drop twice as much as the amount I get for winning a match it's simply feels a pointless endevour and robs alot of the fun one could be having in this game (which already is barely any if you are a long time player like me).

Rant over.

few things:

first, playing with friends makes this game alot more forgiving

second, 80% of the battle is won in the mechlab, and i promise you the primary difference between a mid tier 1 and a mid tier 3 is that the tier 1s are willing to run builds that are either agreed to be good or known to farm match score (that is why high tiers are pretty full of missile boats and AMS boats), while tier 3s and below either have more fun experimenting with wacky, or non-optimal builds, or they dont understand the mechlab well enough to know when a build might be jank.

third: LRM boats and AMS boats cruise to tier 1. It still takes time, but as long as you can farm match score just by playing alot in efficient match-score builds like that, the tier badge will basically always be a participation ribbon.

when everyone got reset, and i came back to play a little over christmas, i noted that the low tier matches were very laid back. mostly dad's chatting to eachother while missiles flew. upper tier matches were much less pleasant; not because loss rate was higher, but because the chances of running into someone who thinks the t2 or t1 tag is actually a sign of their big peepee is much higher, and those people are far less willing to consider their own mistakes, consider that they might not understand parts of the game, and are far more likely to ***** at you over voice coms because they think you threw a match for them, than any t4 dad was ever going to be. I've been in the competitive world before, it was extraordinarily toxic.

[Kira Onime]

Sure... let's remove tiers and match an american hockey league (AHL) vs Team Canada, or USA, Sweden ..... see how well taht goes.

[GARION26]

Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, on 23 March 2021 - 04:28 PM, said:

There’s an option to hide tier in both the forums profile settings and in the in-game settings.

There, your friend wish has been granted! Have a nice day!

On a side note, the game quality is definitely much more punishing has you go up in tiers. I find it’s better to be happy with where ever you currently are and not to stress to hard on climbing tiers. Play the game, and try to have fun. Wins and losses come for everyone. If you felt the game was easier when you were in T5 but now they are harder in T3... then that’s good because your being challenged and not punching down.

Have fun! And happy hunting!

This right here. Also there is a huge difference between the very best players in tier 1 and the rest of us. It's possible particularly in low matchmaker population times you are picking up some of those really talented players when you get into tier 2 and are away from them in tier 3.
I don't know what the current PSR distribution looks like now, but it's also possible depending on your time zone at higher tier's the population for matchmaker is smaller and you are running into more games where the player's native language isn't English. If the match maker has a smaller population to work with you may have more games off your closest server - that also pushes your ping up and makes the game harder IMO. There is a big difference for me personally in communication and PING when I'm on the NA server then when I'm on Europe or Oceanic.

I show my tier on the forum because there is an undercurrent in some of these conversation of 'anyone who advocates for X is a tier 1 seal clubber who just wants to abuse lower tier players.' Showing tier in these postings I think reduces that misconception (does it increase others who knows.)

While you have to do you - I don't personally recommend making alt accounts - your skill is going to be significantly higher then your assigned initial tier. You may have fun seal clubbing but it makes for worse games for everyone else in your matches. I do think playing in a way that gives you joy ignoring the PSR bar gains or losses is a good way though to drift into a tier that matches your skills and preferred play style by and large. If you really think a worse tier is more - play more bad mechs on purpose - or concentrate on activities that get you to a win without upping your match score as much (drop call, use PPFLD weapons rather then damage spamming ones, run backstabbing lights etc.)

Edited by GARION26, 24 March 2021 - 10:33 AM.

[PCHunter]

As I have posted many times before, the ONLY way to handle tier discrepancies when you have such a small population of players (depending on when and where one plays, of course) is to introduce debuffs to higher tier players in lower tier matches as sort of a level equalizer. Not perfect but far better than the nothing we have currently. Example: If there are Tier 1s in matches with Tier 3s, all Tier 1 players are debuffed in armor, damage and heat by 30 percent. Or some such value.

[pbiggz]

PCHunter, on 24 March 2021 - 11:03 AM, said:

As I have posted many times before, the ONLY way to handle tier discrepancies when you have such a small population of players (depending on when and where one plays, of course) is to introduce debuffs to higher tier players in lower tier matches as sort of a level equalizer. Not perfect but far better than the nothing we have currently. Example: If there are Tier 1s in matches with Tier 3s, all Tier 1 players are debuffed in armor, damage and heat by 30 percent. Or some such value.

this is absolutely a terrible idea.

[D A T A]

PCHunter, on 24 March 2021 - 11:03 AM, said:

As I have posted many times before, the ONLY way to handle tier discrepancies when you have such a small population of players (depending on when and where one plays, of course) is to introduce debuffs to higher tier players in lower tier matches as sort of a level equalizer. Not perfect but far better than the nothing we have currently. Example: If there are Tier 1s in matches with Tier 3s, all Tier 1 players are debuffed in armor, damage and heat by 30 percent. Or some such value.

A clear example of why people should not have the right to express their opinions by default, but they should earn it

[Sjorpha]

___, on 24 March 2021 - 09:03 AM, said:

yep i agree 100% i am tier 5 and the quality of my games and the amount of fun that I have would be increased ten to twenty fold if we just got rid of the tier system and let me play with tier 1 players.

Huh? You are tier 1, it's displayed under your badge right next to your post.

[Sjorpha]

Mechwho, on 23 March 2021 - 04:17 PM, said:

At this point I don't believe they are anywhere balanced or that we are getting enough numbers to make it function in a reliable way.


I've been in this limbo between tier 3 and tier 2 where there doesn't seem to be any improvement in team cohesion much less comunication, in fact it gets alot worse and it seems to improve once you go back to tier 3.

I want to believe I'm in a ''Elo Hell'' right now and what is causing this back and forth is me trying too hard (which might be part of the issue tbf) but I can't ignore the above mentioned issues... couple that with the frustration of seeing the Tier bar drop twice as much as the amount I get for winning a match it's simply feels a pointless endevour and robs alot of the fun one could be having in this game (which already is barely any if you are a long time player like me).

Rant over.

Or maybe you hover between 3 and 2 because you've stabilized at your correct PSR. You're not supposed to go up forever, you're supposed to reach the rating that corresponds to your skill and stay there.

Reports like this are good news, that people don't just go up forever means the system isn't completely dysfunctional.

[John Bronco]

We didn't have tiers during the reset last July and it was the bloodiest seal clubbing this game has ever seen.

The tiers at least separate the new/worst players from everyone else, and that alone is better than no tiers.

Also if you're expecting higher tier players to communicate and coordinate like a comp team...well, that just isn't going to happen. There's only so much to be done with a bunch of random people dropped into a match together.

[MyriadDigits]

Yeah we saw what no tiers looked like when PSR change happened and everyone was crammed into T3. It was a complete fustercluck the likes of which the game should never experience again.

As D A T A said, the tiers exist to protect cadets and permanent residents of T5 from the like of him, and other extremely high level pilots. Even someone like me that probably doesn't actually deserve having filled up the bar in T1, can and did absolutely demolish cadets and destined Fivers after tier reset.

[Meep Meep]

Ah yes. No one uses laser vomit who knows better in tier 1..

I see builds like this near every match.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Meep Meep, on 24 March 2021 - 04:13 PM, said:

Ah yes. No one uses laser vomit who knows better in tier 1..

I see builds like this near every match.

I mean, you gotta accept that people streaming/making videos are going to run all sorts of builds. Their views would drop like anvils if they played 24/7 u/ac spam, cERPPC poptarts, and MPLas boats.

There's also the factor that people will play off-meta things because they enjoy them (and are, rarely, good enough to get away with it). It's not like there's any real reason to mindlessly grind soup queue matches with maximum efficiency builds all the time.

[Meep Meep]

Alexander of Macedon, on 24 March 2021 - 04:25 PM, said:

I mean, you gotta accept that people streaming/making videos are going to run all sorts of builds. Their views would drop like anvils if they played 24/7 u/ac spam, cERPPC poptarts, and MPLas boats.

There's also the factor that people will play off-meta things because they enjoy them (and are, rarely, good enough to get away with it). It's not like there's any real reason to mindlessly grind soup queue matches with maximum efficiency builds all the time.

Just pointing out that data claimed no one uses them anymore when I know that they are used all the time. Whether they are 'meta' or not is irrelevant.

[VeeOt Dragon]

honestly i had more fun back in my T3-T4 days. i think of myself as a middle of the road player but then again i don't care about Meta builds and just have fun (hell i almost never use Clan mechs for one). before the tier reset i was in mid T2, not sure were i am now as i don't care. in lower tiers you see all kinds of interesting builds and people actually us tactics not just constant nascar. i like trying new builds or mixed builds. i am always trying something new (oh i have my favorites like my x4 LRM-10, x2 ML Catapult or my x4 AMS, x2 RAC/5, x4 ML Corsair) though i do wish there were more IS mechs with good PPC querks.

back to the subject at hand we do need the tier system as it in theory helps to keep like players with like be that folks like me who just play for fun and don't give two shits about meta or your highly competitive T1 meta try hards all the way to your new players who only have trial mechs to go on. not saying MWO has a perfect tier system by far but something is better than nothing. still we need more players before we can return to separate group, comp and solo play. (thats why i have been streaming my games on the discord i'm in so as to hopefully get some new blood in the game, i know of at least 3 that i convinced to at least give it a try)

[Lousyten]

Meep Meep, on 23 March 2021 - 05:48 PM, said:

there isn't much meta vomit builds to face

It was you who first said 'meta vomit builds'

D A T A, on 24 March 2021 - 03:47 AM, said:

there is no meta vomit at all, as vomit is not meta

DATA corrected you that laser vomit builds aren't meta (which is true)

Meep Meep, on 24 March 2021 - 04:15 AM, said:

I see a shizzton of vomit boats every match

Meep Meep, on 24 March 2021 - 04:33 PM, said:

data claimed no one uses them anymore when I know that they are used all the time.

You made compeletely different remark that, vomits are being played all the time and DATA was wrong to claim otherwise

D A T A, on 24 March 2021 - 04:40 AM, said:

on quick play, i see laser vomits too

When in fact, being played all the time =/= being meta, and DATA never said they're not played

Meep Meep, on 24 March 2021 - 04:33 PM, said:

Whether they are 'meta' or not is irrelevant.

Again, it was you who first said 'meta vomit builds', now suddenly being meta or not is irrelevant

Get your points straight first, then make arguments

Edited by Lou Tenant, 24 March 2021 - 09:50 PM.

[Meep Meep]

Lou Tenant, on 24 March 2021 - 09:49 PM, said:

It was you who first said 'meta vomit builds'


DATA corrected you that laser vomit builds aren't meta (which is true)



You made compeletely different remark that, vomits are being played all the time and DATA was wrong to claim otherwise


When in fact, being played all the time =/= being meta, and DATA never said they're not played


Again, it was you who first said 'meta vomit builds', now suddenly being meta or not is irrelevant

Get your points straight first, then make arguments

You seem triggered.. Do you always argue for others?

[General Solo]

Alternate facts about bad things tend to do that.
Trigger people, some times they trigger a whole union of people.
Am I right Yankee?

[RockmachinE]

Back in the 90s and early 2000s no multiplayer game had tiers. There were ranks, stats and XP, but not segregated inaccessible skill tiers.

Games were fun, colorful and unpredictable. Less salt as there were no official tiers. There always were tryhards and always will be, but much fewer.

Teams had a tendency to even out, usually both teams would have a couple of "hero" high tier players, some noobs and most would be like middle of the bell curve. There were obviously stomps and asymmetric teams, but you get that with tiered matches also.

People had a tendency to switch to even teams out, especially good players since most didn't like lopsided games with no challenge anyways, they'd switch teams. Elite players always had their own clans, servers and scrims anyways, they would occasionally ride on normal servers.

It also provided a natural way to get better, since not all noobs were lumped together it put players in a position where they would adapt faster to a higher skill game and got better quicker. It also allowed mid tier players to get a taste of high skill and adapt to that.

It was organic and it worked.

Ranking and tiers are more of a business attempt and cultural phenomenon in my opinion, under the guise of fun and for fear of offending "sensitive" players and having them leave the game we try to segregate people by skill, but at the end of the day it doesn't do much, it slows peoples' progression and skill attainment and matches end up being lopsided and frustrating ANYWAYS. Tiers just give people something to focus, be upset and fuss about. It stagnates players' skills and abilities. The best way to get good at Quake for example was to play against deadly players, if you played with guys your own level on LAN constantly you'd never progress. And you would and you did and it was way more fun as a result

I'm against tiers. Sure maybe have a noob tier for really fresh players to get used to the game a bit, but then throw them in the game proper as for elite players they always knew how to take care of themselves anyways by making turneys/leagues/private servers/lobbies etc where they can fight amongst one another.

Its not gonna happen, but I'd do away with it. The world is different now so there's no going back,

Having said all of that the majority of T1 players in MWO still suck at MWO. This game probably has the crappiest top tier playerbase out there, it's like only the top 98% percentile actually start to get good at this game everyone else (and im including myself here) is just wobbly and loose, its goofy to watch.

Edited by Louis Brofist, 26 March 2021 - 12:49 AM.

[Temporary Axis]

Meep Meep, on 24 March 2021 - 11:46 PM, said:

You seem triggered.. Do you always argue for others?

And yet, he has a point and you failed to address it....

[General Solo]

Louis Brofist, on 26 March 2021 - 12:29 AM, said:

Having said all of that the majority of T1 players in MWO still suck at MWO. This game probably has the crappiest top tier playerbase out there, it's like only the top 98% percentile actually start to get good at this game everyone else (and im including myself here) is just wobbly and loose, its goofy to watch.

So those in Tier 2, 3, 4 and 5 are worse than that?

And they make up the overwhelming majority of the player base, so the game must accommodate them too, as well as Tier 1's at the same time.

Guess we need tiers to tell one from another, to identify the different skill demographics within the playerbase.
So they get matched better and have more fun. Once they ditch soup queue that is.

And make guid match making for both group and solo queues, maybe even FW too.
imo

Wanna grow best to grow all demographics, not just, old players or new players or skill full or casual.
All Players are part of the playerbase after all.

Edited by General Solo, 26 March 2021 - 01:25 AM.