102 replies to this topic

[RickySpanish]

Meep Meep, on 26 March 2021 - 02:45 PM, said:

Well thats some real nice theory crafting you gents have going on but if there is a 'meta' in quick play the 'meta' is roll the dice and hope you don't get a tater team. Builds are all over the place and you can get dakka spam one match or laser vomit the next or lrm/atm belchers the very next or some unholy mix of all of them. Again the people you need to talk to isn't me. It's the players in quick play since they don't seem to care much for your opinions of what is 'meta' or not.

srsly? Why u no read wot we rite m8?

[Meep Meep]

Holy crap... I know what 'meta' means. The confusion is that you all seem to think it matters a whit in quick play when there is absolutely ZERO control over the quality of player or build of mech so even if a player did bring a 'meta' build there isn't any guarantee they can do anything with it. Bring your 'meta' builds all you want it won't matter if the rest of the team isn't on the same page as you. 'Meta' matters in organized play because you have control over your team and how they fit their mechs and the skill gap is narrow enough that how you fit your mech might give you that intangible advantage for the win. 'Meta' is pointless in quick play.

Still not really understanding why the focus is on some arcane definition of a term when the thread has absolutely ZERO to do with it.

[RickySpanish]

Meep Meep, on 26 March 2021 - 03:42 PM, said:

Holy crap... I know what 'meta' means. The confusion is that you all seem to think it matters a whit in quick play when there is absolutely ZERO control over the quality of player or build of mech so even if a player did bring a 'meta' build there isn't any guarantee they can do anything with it. Bring your 'meta' builds all you want it won't matter if the rest of the team isn't on the same page as you. 'Meta' matters in organized play because you have control over your team and how they fit their mechs and the skill gap is narrow enough that how you fit your mech might give you that intangible advantage for the win. 'Meta' is pointless in quick play.

Still not really understanding why the focus is on some arcane definition of a term when the thread has absolutely ZERO to do with it.

Oh. My. God. Meta isn't pointless in QP because if you run meta builds you will win more matches, because you will do better, because a meta build is better than any other build, hence the term meta. Reeeeeeeee!

[Meep Meep]

RickySpanish, on 26 March 2021 - 03:45 PM, said:

Oh. My. God. Meta isn't pointless in QP because if you run meta builds you will win more matches, because you will do better, because a meta build is better than any other build, hence the term meta. Reeeeeeeee!

No, you won't, because you are only one mech out of twelve. You can be the god of 'meta' and your other 11 team mates will all die in a fire 3 minutes in and your unstoppable 'meta' build will quickly get eaten up by a swarm of mismatched poorly fitted mechs. If you want your 'meta' to mean something in quick play other than a placebo for your pride then you will need to lance up and have at least four 'meta' builds so you have more influence on the match outcome.

At this point I feel you gentlemen are simply arguing for arguments sake..

[EnochsBook]

Meep Meep, on 26 March 2021 - 03:42 PM, said:

Holy crap... I know what 'meta' means. The confusion is that you all seem to think it matters a whit in quick play when there is absolutely ZERO control over the quality of player or build of mech so even if a player did bring a 'meta' build there isn't any guarantee they can do anything with it. Bring your 'meta' builds all you want it won't matter if the rest of the team isn't on the same page as you. 'Meta' matters in organized play because you have control over your team and how they fit their mechs and the skill gap is narrow enough that how you fit your mech might give you that intangible advantage for the win. 'Meta' is pointless in quick play.

Still not really understanding why the focus is on some arcane definition of a term when the thread has absolutely ZERO to do with it.

You say you know what meta means, then you demonstrate that you don't.

It has nothing to do with the other players on your team, or comp, or the enemy team, or anything like that.
The most effective way to build and play a mech is guaranteed to have a positive effect on your performance. That's literally the definition of those words. There's nothing else to be said.

Nobody is saying that bringing a meta build to every match will give you 100% winrate. That's not the point. But if you honestly think that if I bring a 4x LMG Sleipnir to 100 matches, and a properly built MCII-B to 100 other matches, that I won't see a difference in performance, then I don't know what to tell you.

[Meep Meep]

Oh lord...

[Quandoo]

i logged in after 1 year and nothing changed. still the same boring games with rookies everywhere, every game. and they still rotate all time. the most stupid thing i have seen in video games. just wait for them to rotate lights/mediums into your assaults and done.

Edited by Quandoo, 26 March 2021 - 04:43 PM.

[PocketYoda]

The Meta is different in tiers.. Whats meta in Tier 1 isn't meta in tiers 3 4 5 because different types of people play the game.

[Meep Meep]

Samial, on 26 March 2021 - 04:45 PM, said:

The Meta is different in tiers.. Whats meta in Tier 1 isn't meta in tiers 3 4 5 because different types of people play the game.

What the most important factor in determining if you win or at least have enough influence in a match to get a win is personal skill.

A new player unfamiliar with the game isn't going to do any better with 'meta' builds than what the Spreadsheeeet Lords would consider an inefficient and wasteful build.

Take baradul for example. He is skilled at the game and can make nearly anything work as long as its not some weird illogical extreme example no one would ever use like a 4 lmg sleipnir. According to the Spreadsheeeet Lords clam lrm are sub optimal along with er smalls and should not be used in favor of more 'meta' builds. But baradul seems to not really care all that much that the Spreadsheeeet Lords frown upon his build and he performs with them anyways.

[Vlad Ward]

Guys stop wasting precious network bandwidth posting replies to this ontological farce. "What is meta, really?" indeed.

Louis Brofist, on 26 March 2021 - 12:29 AM, said:

Having said all of that the majority of T1 players in MWO still suck at MWO. This game probably has the crappiest top tier playerbase out there, it's like only the top 98% percentile actually start to get good at this game everyone else (and im including myself here) is just wobbly and loose, its goofy to watch.

This was the correct answer on Page 2.

I'm a single player RPG doofus and in the prime of competitive MWO I was target-caller and starting lineup for a Top 5 NA, Top 15 Global comp team. I play random ******** on days when I feel like it and I'm still 96th percentile today. In literally any other PvP FPS I am trash tier.

MWO's mechanics are extremely oversimplified and the only skilled players who stick around are the ones with the absolute highest level of passion and commitment I've seen in any gaming community. Y'all moan about the Cauldron, but those guys are genuinely better people than 99.9% of folks I've ever met in eSports/Competitive Gaming and I've got a lot of exposure in that arena.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 26 March 2021 - 05:49 PM.

[EnochsBook]

Samial, on 26 March 2021 - 04:45 PM, said:

The Meta is different in tiers.. Whats meta in Tier 1 isn't meta in tiers 3 4 5 because different types of people play the game.

Meep Meep, on 26 March 2021 - 04:56 PM, said:

What the most important factor in determining if you win or at least have enough influence in a match to get a win is personal skill.
A new player unfamiliar with the game isn't going to do any better with 'meta' builds than what the Spreadsheeeet Lords would consider an inefficient and wasteful build.

[Meep Meep]

EnochsBook, on 27 March 2021 - 01:10 AM, said:

Yep. Right back at ya. To think that personal skill isn't the most important part of any effort to increase your wins is certainly a joey moment.

[EnochsBook]

Meep Meep, on 27 March 2021 - 01:14 AM, said:

Yep. Right back at ya. To think that personal skill isn't the most important part of any effort to increase your wins is certainly a joey moment.

The discussion was entertaining when you were just wrong, but now that you've turned to dishonesty and misrepresentation, it's just kind of sad.

[Duke Falcon]

Tiers are GOOD. Just like that. It sorts players more or less reasonably. Oh, why T1s may meet with T5s in some matches? Why fluctuating tiers is so frustrationg? Meh!
I make some QPs just to prevent my Tier grow because I like T5 where noone mumbling around WhynotyouuseaMETAboy?! and such. Play for fun not for kills, score or vomit on meta (oh, yeah, that sounds strange a bit).
Tier vs tier? Pugs vs MetaPugs? Tier is an indicator but not an assurance. I killed T1s in FP. Hard like hell and cost me 2 mech to kill that one (well, the first were hit by 3 enemies simultanously while suffered from lags - damn high ping) but pugs could kill T1s, this just happens rarely. But if you cast away tiers then T1s could rampage everywhere en mass. You want to be faced dozens of them right?
Then destroy tiers! Burn! Bury and salt!
NO! Tiers are GOOD and tiers are your FRIEND! Also love the Joey meme guys!

EDIT
Kill tiers and enable only pure LRM builds ingame! Best experience ever, personally guaranteed by Satan himself! LURM DA TIERS BOYZ! WAAAAAAAAAAAGH LIKE DAKKA-DAKKA LURMA HELL!

Sorry...

Edited by Duke Falcon, 27 March 2021 - 01:36 AM.

[Meep Meep]

EnochsBook, on 27 March 2021 - 01:26 AM, said:

The discussion was entertaining when you were just wrong, but now that you've turned to dishonesty and misrepresentation, it's just kind of sad.

You do know this is a thread about removing tier restrictions yes?

[D A T A]

Meep Meep, on 26 March 2021 - 01:24 AM, said:

Well if the point is that laser vomit isn't 'meta' then why do you see them boating every match? Maybe what you consider 'meta' isn't actually 'meta'? Maybe 'meta' is an opinion and everyone has one?

No, meta is what is the best.
What is best is decided by the game itself and players who win find it out faster. Players who win use what is best to win.....otherwise they would lose.

We win, you do not, and we say that laser vomit is not meta, because we tried it multiple times laser vomit vs dakka, cerppc or MPL and the laser vomit lost every damn time since 2017.

Thanks god you are only one of the few ones left that still thinks lasers are OP as even the tier 7 people understood lasers are weak by now. It took 5 mins for us to understand that, back in 2017, and 3 years for the majority of the population, but hallelujah we made it.

Edited by D A T A, 27 March 2021 - 09:06 AM.

[Theodore]

I would absolutely hate to be a cadet in a world where mwo has no tiers... it’s already hard enough to be a cadet in a room full of T5s and T4s...

[Meep Meep]

D A T A, on 27 March 2021 - 08:47 AM, said:

No, meta is what is the best.
What is best is decided by the game itself and players who win find it out faster. Players who win use what is best to win.....otherwise they would lose.

We win, you do not, and we say that laser vomit is not meta, because we tried it multiple times laser vomit vs dakka, cerppc or MPL and the laser vomit lost every damn time since 2017.

Thanks god you are only one of the few ones left that still thinks lasers are OP as even the tier 7 people understood lasers are weak by now. It took 5 mins for us to understand that, back in 2017, and 3 years for the majority of the population, but hallelujah we made it.

Dude I never said lasers are op. All I have said from the start is that in quick play no one cares what the 'meta' is nor what you or I think 'meta' is. In quick play unlike organized play your greatest strength is your personal skill and not min/maxing your build by a spreadsheet organized by dps/heat/alpha etc etc etc. In organized play as long as the caller is competent and your team knows how to focus fire and follow orders they could be a troupe of trained monkeys. Of course the more skilled troupe of monkeys is going to win more but if you were able to 12 man drop in quick play you would roll every single game with a team of one handed half blind shut ins. So stop trying to apply organized play standards to the chaos and unpredictability of quick play.

[Gagis]

Quick Play has a metagame. Every game where there are choises you can make before starting a match or a race has a metagame. Each an every one.

If there is at least one choice you can make, there will be a metagame involving options of that choice, even when the game involves a very large random element such as Quick Play team composition or what cards you draw from a deck of Magic the Gathering cards.

You are essentially arguing that there is no deck construction metagame in Magic the Gathering, because your starting hand is drawn at random. This argument is just as absurd for MtG as it is for Quick Play.

If you are the only person who says something does not exist, please consider the possibility that you may be wrong.

Edited by Gagis, 28 March 2021 - 04:04 AM.

[Meep Meep]

Gagis, on 28 March 2021 - 04:04 AM, said:

Quick Play has a metagame. Every game where there are choises you can make before starting a match or a race has a metagame. Each an every one.

If there is at least one choice you can make, there will be a metagame involving options of that choice, even when the game involves a very large random element such as Quick Play team composition or what cards you draw from a deck of Magic the Gathering cards.

You are essentially arguing that there is no deck construction metagame in Magic the Gathering, because your starting hand is drawn at random. This argument is just as absurd for MtG as it is for Quick Play.

If you are the only person who says something does not exist, please consider the possibility that you may be wrong.

'Meta' matters in organized play because you will be facing a wall of 'meta' in the other team so if you want to have the absolute best chance of securing a win you will have to bring your own 'meta' fits. In quick play though much like Forrest Gump's proverbial box of chocolates you never know what you will get once your team loads in. Might be a bunch of 'meta' fits might be a bunch of hot garbage loadouts mounted on hot garbage mechs no one would ever take into organized play even as a joke.

So you can run your 'meta' builds all day long and its not really going to do much to improve your win rates. In quick play the best 'meta' is to play the mechs and loadouts you personally excel at since its basically a 1 vs 23 every time you load in and the only mech you can count on is your own. Of course if you are lancing up especially a four man then by all means run the 'meta' builds and since you are a third of your team you can use them as meat shields as you farm the other sides meat shields.