26 replies to this topic

[pbiggz]

Tired of the same old nascar?

Have you flushed the mech toilet one too many times?


Consider that every time you enter a match, given the game mode and the map, you have *the same* spawns, and *the same* objectives.

On a map like Terra Therma (quite unfairly hated), or new forest colony (unironically a pretty good map), alpine peaks, and many other maps, that leaves roughly 60 to 80% of the real estate of that map completely unused. (For example, Terra Therma actually has the old caldera on it, but its set off to the side and nobody ever fights there, because the objective isn't there.)


I am advocating for rotating objective locations and rotating spawns. That means moving the bases in assault, moving the control point on domination, and the capture points on conquest, and moving spawns with them.

This doesnt have to be a random operation; designers could manually place sets of objectives and spawns, and the game could simply pick one of them at random when the match starts; lo and behold the domination capture point is the base in alpine peaks and now players are fighting over a *completely different* part of the map, or both teams spawn around the old Terra Therma caldera and the toilet bowl flushes in around it rather than the new center.


This doesn't just make sense from a gameplay perspective, it also makes sense financially. PGI spent money to make those maps; they aren't cheap, and if 80% of the art on those maps is not being used then 80% of the money spent on that map is effectively being wasted. This move lets us enjoy the maps in a new way, and it freshens up and adds excitement to matches that have played more or less the same for 10 years.

[martian]

pbiggz, on 29 March 2021 - 05:24 AM, said:

Rotating Objectives
...

Hello!

I like your post, especially the first third and the last third of your post.

However, there is a small problem: PGI

People have been asking for movement of various spawns literally for years, but PGI has been equally unwilling or incompetent to do so. So what you are suggesting in the second third of your post would be nice to have, but it is probably beyond what PGI would be interested to do.

[The Basilisk]

Thing is you either have to force all players to fight on spawn rotation or simply leave it be.
And what you will get this way is the biggest sh... storm since...well last patch I think.
Problem is, lots of players want diversity and a certain randomnes but refuse the bare posibility to simply draw the shorter straw....
In my opinion this would be pretty damn cool since the two biggest factors in quickplay are already beyond your control. Your Team...and their either OP or abysmal choice of mechs and loadout as well as the Map itself.
So since it is all luck anyways why not making random start clusters.

[pbiggz]

martian, on 29 March 2021 - 05:38 AM, said:

Hello!

I like your post, especially the first third and the last third of your post.

However, there is a small problem: PGI

People have been asking for movement of various spawns literally for years, but PGI has been equally unwilling or incompetent to do so. So what you are suggesting in the second third of your post would be nice to have, but it is probably beyond what PGI would be interested to do.

They've hired a new designer so if enough people ask this is definitely in the realm of possibility.

[Johny Rocket]

Would be nice, I loathe domination specifically because its always the same place and just forces everyone into a 300m circle basically chucking 99% of the map.

Have had some good fights in the Caldera on New Terra, sad can't get peeps to post up there more often but the game mode is usually domination anywho.

[pbiggz]

Johny Rocket, on 29 March 2021 - 09:27 AM, said:

Would be nice, I loathe domination specifically because its always the same place and just forces everyone into a 300m circle basically chucking 99% of the map.

Have had some good fights in the Caldera on New Terra, sad can't get peeps to post up there more often but the game mode is usually domination anywho.

Terra Therma is actually an excellent map with lots of great places to fight. It dies for the gamemode's sins, thats the only reason people hate it.

[martian]

pbiggz, on 29 March 2021 - 05:43 AM, said:

They've hired a new designer so if enough people ask this is definitely in the realm of possibility.

I am not sure if one designer can make up for literally years of neglect.

[pbiggz]

martian, on 29 March 2021 - 09:33 AM, said:

I am not sure if one designer can make up for literally years of neglect.

Moving spawn points and objectives can literally be done in the cryengine editor. This is low hanging fruit.

Choosing which sets of spawns to run each match might take a few lines of extra code that dont already exist but this is still not a complicated fix.

Also, going into every thread to remind us that PGI has a bad record isn't helpful. We all know. Nobody is white knighting its not 2013.

Edited by pbiggz, 29 March 2021 - 09:39 AM.

[martian]

pbiggz, on 29 March 2021 - 09:38 AM, said:

Moving spawn points and objectives can literally be done in the cryengine editor. This is low hanging fruit.

For example, people have been asking PGI to move spawn points on some maps (like Frozen City Classic or HPG Manifold, etc.) since those maps were created ... and with zero response from PGI.

pbiggz, on 29 March 2021 - 09:38 AM, said:

Choosing which sets of spawns to run each match might take a few lines of extra code that dont already exist but this is still not a complicated fix.

And yet, the majority of existing static spawn points are still the same on almost all maps, exactly as they have been placed placed many years ago, even when it is obvious that they do not work.

pbiggz, on 29 March 2021 - 09:38 AM, said:

Also, going into every thread to remind us that PGI has a bad record isn't helpful. We all know. Nobody is white knighting its not 2013.

Just stating the facts.

[crazytimes]

Rotation is that ingrained that regardless of spawns and objectives, everyone still will rush to a central feature and rotate around it until one team runs out of mechs. At that point, any objective becomes a trivial condition to finish the match.

After 6 months of video blogs, town halls, discussions, botched patches and the like- they still haven't managed.to adjust a single spawn point. Why does Charlie lance spawn face first into a wall on tourmaline? No one knows. It just is.

The idea.of adjusting spawns and modes sufficiently to actually change player behaviour? Technically impossible at best.

[TheArisen]

Yes please. It'd be such an easy way to keep things fresh without releasing entirely new maps.

[Vlad Ward]

martian, on 29 March 2021 - 09:56 AM, said:

For example, people have been asking PGI to move spawn points on some maps (like Frozen City Classic or HPG Manifold, etc.) since those maps were created ... and with zero response from PGI.

Now that's not true.

I distinctly remember PGI responding years ago and saying that they didn't want to move the spawns because their designers spent dozens of man-hours balancing them and were content with the result.

[Johny Rocket]

pbiggz, on 29 March 2021 - 09:32 AM, said:

Terra Therma is actually an excellent map with lots of great places to fight. It dies for the gamemode's sins, thats the only reason people hate it.

Oh I agree, had a good match on there earlier today. Assault, came down to 3vs2 I spent most of the time trying to keep a cheeky Flea driver off our base. You know how hard it is to hit one of those with a light gauss rifle? Then it was painted black and stayed in stealth to boot.

[GuardDogg]

To bad their is no rewards/badges for taking commanders, tactical roles. It will help defeat Nascar. That is missing in MWO.

[Vlad Ward]

No one plays video games to get bossed around by some random on the internet. Commander tools have always been poorly thought out fluff.

[Johny Rocket]

GuardDogg, on 29 March 2021 - 03:31 PM, said:

To bad their is no rewards/badges for taking commanders, tactical roles. It will help defeat Nascar. That is missing in MWO.

You can take command, not something you see often unless its a troll. A reward, meh. Im not going to listen to a bad call because it was called.
Some reward for tactical stuff would be good. Like that match I mentioned earlier, that flea had our base down to 20% and I spent half the match on the base keeping him from capping it out while my teammates capped theirs. Should be a reward for that.

[PocketYoda]

Weird..

In tiers 5 and 4 we hardly ever Nascar.... We are to busy running around like headless chickens to work well enough as a group to Nascar.

pbiggz, on 29 March 2021 - 09:32 AM, said:

Terra Therma is actually an excellent map with lots of great places to fight. It dies for the gamemode's sins, thats the only reason people hate it.

No it dies because its hot as hell, its pitch black and its a nightmare to get around on.. No Nascar because no one likes it outside of the odd forum customer.

Everyone trundles to the middle cooks themselves and dies.

Its like the second worse map outside of Polar.

Edited by Samial, 29 March 2021 - 06:39 PM.

[martian]

Vlad Ward, on 29 March 2021 - 01:37 PM, said:

Now that's not true.

I distinctly remember PGI responding years ago and saying that they didn't want to move the spawns because their designers spent dozens of man-hours balancing them and were content with the result.

How typical.

[pbiggz]

Samial, on 29 March 2021 - 06:34 PM, said:

Weird..

In tiers 5 and 4 we hardly ever Nascar.... We are to busy running around like headless chickens to work well enough as a group to Nascar.


No it dies because its hot as hell, its pitch black and its a nightmare to get around on.. No Nascar because no one likes it outside of the odd forum customer.

Everyone trundles to the middle cooks themselves and dies.

Its like the second worse map outside of Polar.

They nerfed the **** out of environmental heat like how many years ago?

Besides this is a tangent.

Rotate the objectives and make use of more of the maps.

[VeeOt Dragon]

i agree, there is so much of the maps that aren't used. running around the testing grounds i have found lots of good defensive positions. trouble is no one uses them. (as for maps like Therma i love them, then again i get a special little joy in high heat meta alpha builds cooking themselves.) honestly it shouldn't be to hard to shift objectives/spawns around. yeah it might need some slight shifting of geometry of the map, adding some feature here or there to balance out the spawns. it can be done just gonna take some thinking and a bit of time (putting the changes fore each set on the PTS would also help). even if it is something as simple as having 2 different setups for each map/mode. that would go a long way to adding variety to matches. might even shift a few bad habits, though that is even more unlikely.