140 replies to this topic

[Curccu]

MechaGnome, on 12 April 2021 - 04:40 PM, said:

Thats because when you put two sets of hardcores together one set has to lose.. They hate that, they'd rather smash baby seals daily.

Yes that is also reason why player run competitive leagues have been running in this game since beginning... you know everyone can always win a league and be happy.

[Curccu]

cmndctrl, on 12 April 2021 - 10:25 PM, said:

no, he's absolutely right

Nah, Absolutely wrong, [redacted].

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 15 April 2021 - 11:03 PM.

[PocketYoda]

Lockheed_, on 12 April 2021 - 04:53 PM, said:

So predictable..

pattonesque, on 12 April 2021 - 05:41 PM, said:

weird take

Epeens hate losing..

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 14 April 2021 - 05:59 AM, said:

that's just untrue, mate.
the BEST FP matches are when 12gents on comms, who know what they're doing are running into 12 equally skilled gents (or bast*rds, since red. nevermind they're your pals OUTSIDE of that match ).
many times both teams where on the same teamspeak-server and FUN kept all 24 playing for a whole evening.
clubbing seals is NO FUN, for BOTH sides, but just dull.


that is until 2017(?) or so, since PGI did their best to kill off entire units.

For a very small top tier really good players yes for the rest of the "writing checks their bodies can't cash" types, no... They lose and it damages their over inflated egos.. they realise its easier to smash customers that cannot fight back.. Why do you think so many online games have issues with cheating because it inflates their stats to fit their egos.. Griefers never ever want an equal footing.

Edited by MechaGnome, 14 April 2021 - 08:55 PM.

[Castigatus]

I'm slightly amused how you seem to think that accusing every high-ranked MWO player who plays with a group including a lower-ranked player of being a seal clubbing griefer who hates a fair fight doesn't make you look like a tinfoil hat-wearing [redacted].

I'm not saying players like that don't exist but honestly, you guys seem to be seriously overestimating how many of them there actually are just because it backs up your narrative of 'groups in queue = bad'.

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 15 April 2021 - 10:56 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

cmndctrl, on 12 April 2021 - 10:25 PM, said:

no, he's absolutely right

Unfortunately Samial is not right and I think is making things up. Let me give you some background of what actually happens - a history of MWO if you want to look at it like that.

Comp players have always played in Community run Competitive leagues. There can be 3-6 per year with anywhere from 30-50 teams participating.
Personally I've been involved in running, organising, playing and shoutcasting community leagues for 3-4 years now and I also play Faction Play.

Comp teams have rarely played in Faction Play to any significant degree. Occasionally comp team might form a group and drop into Faction Play. When that happens this is the end result



My unit is basically not interested in it and that goes for many others for that reason. Competition is only found in Competitive play.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 15 April 2021 - 05:34 AM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

MechaGnome, on 14 April 2021 - 08:48 PM, said:

For a very small top tier really good players yes for the rest of the "writing checks their bodies can't cash" types, no... They lose and it damages their over inflated egos.. they realise its easier to smash customers that cannot fight back.. Why do you think so many online games have issues with cheating because it inflates their stats to fit their egos.. Griefers never ever want an equal footing.

again - not true.
when I started this game in sept.16 I certainly was no "top tier" (nor was I when I left)
- I was as bad as they come; see here:
https://leaderboard....tain+Caveman+DE


AND STILL people in factionplay got me on board and had A LOT of patience with me; we always had a lot of fun in the evening hours and yes, we picked our fights against other organised groups WILLINGLY, even if it meant that we might lose
because it was a challenge, and because BOTH sides were fun and friendly with each other.
and that goes for ALL the units these days, no matter if they were "gods" or "can't hit a barn"-level.

pgi killed of A LOT of units, and fw went downhill from there, to the point where you rarely get 1-2 teams dropping the same time (no idea how it is today, I suspect it isn't better than 2019). which leads to having an organised group going against a bunch of solos more often.
however, that DOES NOT mean that those still playing faction wouldn't rather have a good fight. those guys are in this game for fun as much as you are.

nobody forces you to like or play the mode, but please stop calling those who do "cheaters and egomaniacs". it is untrue, uncalled for and frankly also offensive. if you don't like a team-based mode, there's always quickplay and solaris to do your solostuff.

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 15 April 2021 - 06:41 AM.

[Nathan White]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 14 April 2021 - 05:59 AM, said:

that's just untrue, mate.
the BEST FP matches are when 12gents on comms, who know what they're doing are running into 12 equally skilled gents (or bast*rds, since red. nevermind they're your pals OUTSIDE of that match ).
many times both teams where on the same teamspeak-server and FUN kept all 24 playing for a whole evening.
clubbing seals is NO FUN, for BOTH sides, but just dull.


that is until 2017(?) or so, since PGI did their best to kill off entire units.

+1 . PGI was killed all units, but people still trying to get a interesting matches in FP. Just look at C-XF and others Oceanic Guys - they create a special discord server to liven up FP at Oceanic primetime. Seal clubbing so f*** boring. PGI must add FP maps and mode to private lobbies.

[Warbutz]

justcallme A S H, on 15 April 2021 - 05:31 AM, said:

Unfortunately Samial is not right and I think is making things up. Let me give you some background of what actually happens - a history of MWO if you want to look at it like that.

Comp players have always played in Community run Competitive leagues. There can be 3-6 per year with anywhere from 30-50 teams participating.
Personally I've been involved in running, organising, playing and shoutcasting community leagues for 3-4 years now and I also play Faction Play.

Comp teams have rarely played in Faction Play to any significant degree. Occasionally comp team might form a group and drop into Faction Play. When that happens this is the end result



My unit is basically not interested in it and that goes for many others for that reason. Competition is only found in Competitive play.

I wonder what would have happened if you used your organisational skills to split your drop and had 6 on each side instead? Could have resulted in some genuine Aussie fun where you could have been pitted against each other and get to hack on each other about the result. Instead, you chose to destroy the FP experience for 12 others.

You are elitist, your mates are elitist and carry on that way in Quick Play as well. You should be sync dropping in Quick Play instead of forming the groups you do and destroying the experience for both the winning and losing sides. If you sync drop and get the same team, good luck to you. But, there is every chance you could be on opposing sides, making the game more enjoyable for all.

Stop pretending this is all PGI's fault. There are community based solutions that you choose not to partake in, because you are infact elitist [Redacted] more than actually trying to make the game enjoyable for all involved.

I watch your stream when you are on so that I can desync against your group drop. I do not want to be any part of being on your side, or against it. Both situations guarantee a result that is not enjoyable in any way.

Be part of the solution instead of leaning on "It's PGI's fault" crutch that you do. You are more intelligent than that.

[Warbutz]

Lockheed_, on 15 April 2021 - 12:16 PM, said:

my god, that's pathetic

Pathetic that I use an available means to avoid being part of a guaranteed stomp either way? Your definition of pathetic is interesting at best.

[Davegt27]

Lockheed_, on 15 April 2021 - 12:16 PM, said:

my god, that's pathetic

I do the same thing as Warbutz does


but I am one of the worst players in MWO (if you factor in the number of drops)

so it is more of I would bring his team down if I played on his side
and just be a seal if on the other side

it is what it is

Edited by Davegt27, 15 April 2021 - 12:40 PM.

[x Deathstrike x]

MechaGnome, on 12 April 2021 - 04:40 PM, said:

Thats because when you put two sets of hardcores together one set has to lose.. They hate that, they'd rather smash baby seals daily.

I think you fundamentally dont understand how hardcore competitive people become hardcore competitive.
By clubbing baby seals you learn nothing, you have no challange and you wont grow.
Real challange comes from equal or even better opponents.
It's the same in every sports or other competitive environment.
I remember back when my unit and me were clubbing baby seals.
Yes sometimes it was fun but most of the times we tried to find other 12 man teams in FP to have a challange.

justcallme A S H, on 15 April 2021 - 05:31 AM, said:

Baaahhhhh that's nothing against the GREATEST achievement of all times which is losing against nobody

Edited by x Deathstrike x, 15 April 2021 - 12:51 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Warbutz, on 15 April 2021 - 11:50 AM, said:

I wonder what would have happened if you used your organisational skills to split your drop and had 6 on each side instead? Could have resulted in some genuine Aussie fun where you could have been pitted against each other and get to hack on each other about the result. Instead, you chose to destroy the FP experience for 12 others.

You are elitist, your mates are elitist and carry on that way in Quick Play as well. You should be sync dropping in Quick Play instead of forming the groups you do and destroying the experience for both the winning and losing sides. If you sync drop and get the same team, good luck to you. But, there is every chance you could be on opposing sides, making the game more enjoyable for all.

Stop pretending this is all PGI's fault. There are community based solutions that you choose not to partake in, because you are infact elitist and like stroking your e-peen more than actually trying to make the game enjoyable for all involved.

I watch your stream when you are on so that I can desync against your group drop. I do not want to be any part of being on your side, or against it. Both situations guarantee a result that is not enjoyable in any way.

Be part of the solution instead of leaning on "It's PGI's fault" crutch that you do. You are more intelligent than that.

I would suggest next time before attacking me you better understand the mechanics of what you're talking about.

Faction Play is clearly stated as a mode for organised players and it sounds like you don't understand how the MM works. If we did split into 2 groups one group would have matched against the same opposition and the other group would have been skipped as the MM prioritises group size first. So there is very little chance we'd find each other due to how the MM is implemented witin Faction Play. If that isn't PGIs doing, the people that made the MM, when who's is it? Seems rather elementary to me.


If you did actually listen to what I say on my stream - you'd know none of the nonsense you speak of up is true so I question the validity pretty heavily. Of course I say what I want on my stream, it's my stream... Some people are unable to tell the difference between MWO and Twitch it seems. You'll also find that there are 4-8 sync droppers from the chat on top of whoever I'm playing with so very much wondering where your wildly inaccurate statements come from?

Outside of that I am constantly helping players that come by my stream. Builds, skill tree, play/position advice, settings help and so on. Many of them new or returning as at the times I stream, I'm usually the most popular with around 60-90 viewers. Not bad for a niche game - keep giving me the boost and exposure by watching.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 15 April 2021 - 04:10 PM.

[PocketYoda]

x Deathstrike x, on 15 April 2021 - 12:42 PM, said:

I think you fundamentally dont understand how hardcore competitive people become hardcore competitive.
By clubbing baby seals you learn nothing, you have no challange and you wont grow.
Real challange comes from equal or even better opponents.
It's the same in every sports or other competitive environment.
I remember back when my unit and me were clubbing baby seals.
Yes sometimes it was fun but most of the times we tried to find other 12 man teams in FP to have a challange.




Baaahhhhh that's nothing against the GREATEST achievement of all times which is losing against nobody

I totally understand all that yeah the best of the best like to challenge themselves, but those players that will never ever be at the top, do not like to lose either, a large chunk like to kill those that cannot beat them.

That includes low level tier 1 and tier 2s, many get tired of not being the best and look for other ways to enjoy MWO at the cost of other players.

Warbutz, on 15 April 2021 - 11:50 AM, said:

I wonder what would have happened if you used your organisational skills to split your drop and had 6 on each side instead? Could have resulted in some genuine Aussie fun where you could have been pitted against each other and get to hack on each other about the result. Instead, you chose to destroy the FP experience for 12 others.

You are elitist, your mates are elitist and carry on that way in Quick Play as well. You should be sync dropping in Quick Play instead of forming the groups you do and destroying the experience for both the winning and losing sides. If you sync drop and get the same team, good luck to you. But, there is every chance you could be on opposing sides, making the game more enjoyable for all.

Stop pretending this is all PGI's fault. There are community based solutions that you choose not to partake in, because you are infact elitist and like stroking your e-peen more than actually trying to make the game enjoyable for all involved.

I watch your stream when you are on so that I can desync against your group drop. I do not want to be any part of being on your side, or against it. Both situations guarantee a result that is not enjoyable in any way.

Be part of the solution instead of leaning on "It's PGI's fault" crutch that you do. You are more intelligent than that.

Thanks well said, I like that their are people that enjoy this game to the extreme, what i don't like is how they can effect the whole game and tiers..

I have personally nothing against top tier customers if they stick to their top tier game modes.. But when they encroach on us lower skilled players to just destroy us for "fun" And it happens daily.. It may not be ASH and his friends here but its definitely other tier 1s and somewhat 2s it literally sends customers packing.. I totally believe Faction play also needed tiers.

Faction Play very much was originally designed for the elitists.. but they wrecked it along with PGI. Quickplay was for the rest of us for fun..

Edited by MechaGnome, 15 April 2021 - 05:09 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

MechaGnome, on 15 April 2021 - 04:50 PM, said:

I totally understand all that yeah the best of the best like to challenge themselves, but those players that will never ever be at the top, do not like to lose either, a large chunk like to kill those that cannot beat them.

That includes low level tier 1 and tier 2s, many get tired of not being the best and look for other ways to enjoy MWO at the cost of other players.

Can you please show some evidence to support this statement?

Be that Forums/Discord posts? YouTube? Twitch? Even... Dare I day it... Facebook or steam forums?

I am very keen to know where these comments come from as I've not seen a single person mention it and I'm active across most of those mediums.
Once we have some evidence to back the statement we can then unpack it and have a better look at what is going on.

From my experiences I see the same T1/T2/T3 guys dropping same times every day across 100s of matches a month. If they were getting sick of losing yet still playing that directly contradicts everything you're claiming.

[Davegt27]

justcallme A S H, on 15 April 2021 - 05:08 PM, said:

Can you please show some evidence to support this statement?

Be that Forums/Discord posts? YouTube? Twitch? Even... Dare I day it... Facebook or steam forums?

I am very keen to know where these comments come from as I've not seen a single person mention it and I'm active across most of those mediums.
Once we have some evidence to back the statement we can then unpack it and have a better look at what is going on.

From my experiences I see the same T1/T2/T3 guys dropping same times every day across 100s of matches a month. If they were getting sick of losing yet still playing that directly contradicts everything you're claiming.

you have to go to the fall of 2015, Russ during either a pod cast or town hall
he said they (PGI) look at the data and can see that 12 man teams actually avoid each other

man that started a fire storm and a ton of people got on Russ and PGIs case

IMHO PGI changed how things worked after that put that is a story for another

[justcallme A S H]

A post/statement from 2015 when the game was in a very, very different state isn't all that applicable 6 years later. Especially as the Faction Play - matching mechanics - have changed 2-3 times since then.

What I am asking Samial here is something more recent. As there has been nil-all changes since 2018 I'll settle for anything going back 3 years which I think is more than fair.

Admittadly one thing has changed majorly and that is Solo/GroupQ merger however most people that spoke out against it, myself included, didn't say a single word about avoiding other players. That did not come up once.

[Warbutz]

justcallme A S H, on 15 April 2021 - 01:37 PM, said:

I would suggest next time before attacking me you better understand the mechanics of what you're talking about.

Faction Play is clearly stated as a mode for organised players and it sounds like you don't understand how the MM works. If we did split into 2 groups one group would have matched against the same opposition and the other group would have been skipped as the MM prioritises group size first. So there is very little chance we'd find each other due to how the MM is implemented witin Faction Play. If that isn't PGIs doing, the people that made the MM, when who's is it? Seems rather elementary to me.


If you did actually listen to what I say on my stream - you'd know none of the nonsense you speak of up is true so I question the validity pretty heavily. Of course I say what I want on my stream, it's my stream... Some people are unable to tell the difference between MWO and Twitch it seems. You'll also find that there are 4-8 sync droppers from the chat on top of whoever I'm playing with so very much wondering where your wildly inaccurate statements come from?

Outside of that I am constantly helping players that come by my stream. Builds, skill tree, play/position advice, settings help and so on. Many of them new or returning as at the times I stream, I'm usually the most popular with around 60-90 viewers. Not bad for a niche game - keep giving me the boost and exposure by watching.

I am actually quite conversant with how the FP queue works. Your comments again show just how arrogant you are. I would be highly surprised if you couldn't coordinate a drop during Oceanic Prime where lances of the same unit could pit against each other. Of course, it would need to be fleshed out with PUGs, but the overall enjoyment would be there in the best capacity it can, given the tools we have. This would likely only be achievable on a FRI/SAT night, but its better than nothing.

At no point did I suggest that your stream was unhelpful from an information perspective. In fact, I actually stated that you are too intelligent to remain closed minded to the opportunities for more enjoyable gameplay. My commentary clearly points towards the comp level group drops in Quick Play that result in nothing other than a stomp. The way you and your comrades mouth off in voice chat during Quick Play is not consistent with what you attest to be trying to promote on your channel. I will continue to watch your stream and all others that make the effort to provide that content. I always have a stream running if I am playing. I consider that my contribution to promoting the game with the resources I have available to me.

I empathise with those who play at a very high level and want to group with mates. I genuinely get it. Unfortunately, the design philosophy of MWO is not consistent with the size of its player base, resulting in one sided matches when this occurs. We can either lean on that as an excuse, or change the way we approach the available game modes in the interest of enjoyment for all involved.

I am the very definition of an average player; however, I still sync drop with my mates as a solo. We get the same match about 50% of the time and are on the same side/opposing proportionately. Our discord server is loaded with "You have been destroyed" screens where we have managed to nuke each other and a ladder tracking how often we have fallen victim to one of our mates. This has zero affect on the enjoyment of anyone else in the match.

I am suggesting that the comp level players should keep their group based game play for the appropriate space. Try something like what we do, you may enjoy it.

[justcallme A S H]

Warbutz, on 15 April 2021 - 08:07 PM, said:

I am actually quite conversant with how the FP queue works. Your comments again show just how arrogant you are. I would be highly surprised if you couldn't coordinate a drop during Oceanic Prime where lances of the same unit could pit against each other.

That already happens. It has for a while now every Tuesday. Friday was tried but did not work due to the Oceanic player lifestyle.

So it would most seem you are perhaps not as conversant as you believe.

Warbutz, on 15 April 2021 - 08:07 PM, said:

My commentary clearly points towards the comp level group drops in Quick Play that result in nothing other than a stomp. The way you and your comrades mouth off in voice chat during Quick Play is not consistent with what you attest to be trying to promote on your channel.

I get users and other groups sync-dropping against me all the time. I think 2 streams ago it was my mates vs 228 mates for the better part of 2 hours with half a dozen sync droppers in/around it from the stream.

Plenty of fun games were had, plenty of sledging was done, such is the Aussie/NZ cultural ways of interacting with your mates. No one needs to take it to heart and I certainly cannot control why anyone else says. I’m not a dictator.

Warbutz, on 15 April 2021 - 08:07 PM, said:

I am suggesting that the comp level players should keep their group based game play for the appropriate space. Try something like what we do, you may enjoy it.

Essentially you are suggesting that we play the way you play so we won’t enjoy ourselves but you will? Quite the dichotomy.

Comp players regularly get into lobbies to fight each other. Just because they are not streaming it doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. I see many friends doing lobbies constantly (via discord streams etc). So, after if they go to QP to have more relaxed/chilled games, good luck to them.

One of the larger things I have learnt in life and through my work is you cannot make everyone happy and that is just life.

[Ekson Valdez]

@all
Please address the original topic and stop derailing the thread, or it will be closed.

[Capt Deadpool]

Ekson Valdez, on 15 April 2021 - 11:10 PM, said:

[mod]@all
Please address the original topic and stop derailing the thread, or it will be closed.[/mod]

Ekson, your moderation in recent memory leaves much to be desired. It is the nature of internet forum threads to develop some breadth regarding the topic at hand; we have not started discussing politics or football here...

We have a cauldron member participating in the discussion on this forum as opposed to reddit or discord--which is exactly what has been requested by the community, and he has been both thoughtful and clear in his replies despite being personally attacked as 'arrogant'. He has taken the high road to discuss his philosophical differences with another forum member.

I'd suggest that if you truly want to improve this space as a place the community can come together to discuss MWO issues, focus more on immediately warning community members who make any negative/personal attacks against other members and deleting such posts as opposed to using your energy attempting to constrain threads within unreasonably narrow bounds.

(And for the love of god talk to someone about reducing the number of useless unused forums in this place; the way it is currently set up only makes sense if there were 500 new threads per day instead of one or two dozen. It's current format divides the community instead of bringing it together.)

I hope you take this criticism constructively.

Edited by Capt Deadpool, 16 April 2021 - 04:25 PM.